The Vaygr Empire "To Dominate & Control" [Apply here]

[Oro]

@TwoNiner ERMAHGERD A WHOLE 8 SECONDS?!?!

Its long

 

[FlyingDebris]

Actually I have had the opportunity to test things on your ships. One of the tests I conducted was to switch out the overdrive on your dreadnought's cannon with different effects, like punch-through or explosive.

Keptick is correct, your guns are hardly as effective when overdrive or ion is not used, and you will be forced to fight fair when the overdrive and ion bugs are fixed.

 

[MrTargareyan]

Its long

Not really, in that period of time I could (Maybe, if I was lucky) Pick up the cup of tea next to me, take a gulp, then put it back down and notice someone was attacking me, before immediately dying before I had time to select your ship on nav, let alone turn around.

Yes, maybe, it might be a long time if the game was played entirely by Mayflies (Lifespan of 24 hours), but unfortunately this is Starmade, and happens to be played by humans as far as I am aware. And really, as a pvp faction, I would have thought that you want to engage in balanced and challenging PVP rather than exploiting bugs that let you kill an opponent faster than the period of time it takes for me to yawn and stretch my arms.

The list of things that your average person does in eight seconds is rather small, you can die, type a couple of words, blink and take a gulp of tea or maybe a bite of food, and probably a few other things, though none that are particularly relevant to a video game.

Its not as if I haven't built ships like this before, like the DFN Malivolentia and the DFN Morghulis .(The formers 3.5 millon DPS was high enough to take out a Csar in ~7 seconds, and against everything else all you had to do is fly into an enemy sector, park, then everything would be dead before the end of the ensuing FPS drop. The latter was a 150 metre corvette with a sustained DPS of 600,000. Both of these were built with the old weapons systems.) Also actually, as @FlyingDebris or @Creeper__God can confirm, though it was never used due to the bug with turrets not adding to mass being fixed a few days after its constuction, I also built perma cloak and jam ship with 1.7 million DPS (Sustained), carrying two 65k mass Medusa turrets. Ships like this take all challenge and interest out of PVP, and reduce it to point, click, and dead, the victory depending on who saw who first. Neither this or the overdrive and Ion bugs is min-maxing, which is fine, its just exploiting broken features. Its a bit like the difference between working really hard to earn metric shit tons of money, and dodgy tax evasion schemes, sure, some of them are probably work due to loopholes in the law, but its not exactly fair on everyone else, who chooses to pay taxes due to their morals.

But still, I suppose I have no real cause for complaint, since the weapons will be balanced soon enough, and then we will all have to fight and build ships on even terms. It is alpha after all, its almost certain that at any given time there will be a few exploitable bugs.

 

[Leanson]

It's about time someone has talked with some insight and sense. For the record I did make a 1 bil dps ship, it can sustain fire, 20mil shields, and a coffee maker.

 

[Megacrafter127]

fancy

 

[Leanson]

I know right, it's good coffee too.

 

[Megacrafter127]

I hate coffee. But as long as I don't have to drink it, I'm fine.

 

[Oro]

Not really, in that period of time I could (Maybe, if I was lucky) Pick up the cup of tea next to me, take a gulp, then put it back down and notice someone was attacking me, before immediately dying before I had time to select your ship on nav, let alone turn around.

Yes, maybe, it might be a long time if the game was played entirely by Mayflies (Lifespan of 24 hours), but unfortunately this is Starmade, and happens to be played by humans as far as I am aware. And really, as a pvp faction, I would have thought that you want to engage in balanced and challenging PVP rather than exploiting bugs that let you kill an opponent faster than the period of time it takes for me to yawn and stretch my arms.

The list of things that your average person does in eight seconds is rather small, you can die, type a couple of words, blink and take a gulp of tea or maybe a bite of food, and probably a few other things, though none that are particularly relevant to a video game.

Its not as if I haven't built ships like this before, like the DFN Malivolentia and the DFN Morghulis .(The formers 3.5 millon DPS was high enough to take out a Csar in ~7 seconds, and against everything else all you had to do is fly into an enemy sector, park, then everything would be dead before the end of the ensuing FPS drop. The latter was a 150 metre corvette with a sustained DPS of 600,000. Both of these were built with the old weapons systems.) Also actually, as @FlyingDebris or @Creeper__God can confirm, though it was never used due to the bug with turrets not adding to mass being fixed a few days after its constuction, I also built perma cloak and jam ship with 1.7 million DPS (Sustained), carrying two 65k mass Medusa turrets. Ships like this take all challenge and interest out of PVP, and reduce it to point, click, and dead, the victory depending on who saw who first. Neither this or the overdrive and Ion bugs is min-maxing, which is fine, its just exploiting broken features. Its a bit like the difference between working really hard to earn metric shit tons of money, and dodgy tax evasion schemes, sure, some of them are probably work due to loopholes in the law, but its not exactly fair on everyone else, who chooses to pay taxes due to their morals.

But still, I suppose I have no real cause for complaint, since the weapons will be balanced soon enough, and then we will all have to fight and build ships on even terms. It is alpha after all, its almost certain that at any given time there will be a few exploitable bugs.

The malevolentia is the exact ship i was referring to, took down the ship in 2 seconds and cored it in one more. We tested it against our and it took much longer.

Its also easy to tell if you can destroy a ship with another if you have both blueprints. Which you dont have. And everyone knows medusa turrets are bad. The weapon design is the same garbage ive seen for a long time.

 

[MrTargareyan]

The malevolentia is the exact ship i was referring to, took down the ship in 2 seconds and cored it in one more. We tested it against our and it took much longer.

Its also easy to tell if you can destroy a ship with another if you have both blueprints. Which you dont have. And everyone knows medusa turrets are bad.

I had no idea whatsoever that the DFN still used the Malivolentia. I assumed they dropped it after the weapons update and replaced it with the Cherokee. So if you tested this post weapons update, then sure, I imagine it would be bad, if you tested it before that, then again, I'm not particularly surprised. The Malivolentia was a glass cannon, its defence was its ability to fly into just about any situation and blow just about everything to bits that was smaller than itself before the lag subsided so the enemy could react. (The game never particularly enjoyed loading it, we had an incident once where I spawned one at the DFN's base, which made it completely unplayable).

The turrets were also its main armament, providing 2.9 million of its 3.5m DPS if I remember correctly. Also the time it took to take the Csar's shields down was based un public information that Zoro posted, saying it has 26 million shields, though I had no way of knowing if this was true or not.

And as for Medusa turrets being bad, they weren't the most efficient things on the planet, I would admit that, I threw the weapons systems together in 10 minutes, as the amount of glowing purple was causing the craptop that I had back then to throw a hissy fit.

And yet for all the Malivolentias flaws, three 900k dps turrets on a single 450m ship with the ability to chew through hull like it was a particularly tasty beef stew was game breaking, especially with the old weapons system. I would never out of choice build something that stupidly overpowered again. That ship was closer in length to the Thunderhead than the Csar in any case, It wasn't even a big ship. The fact that your faction has built something slightly more gamebreaking (If this was with the old weapons systems in an equivalent sized ship, 3.5 million dps nowadays is easy to achieve in a capship without exploiting any bugs), has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making that building gamebreaking stuff by exploiting bugs is morally wrong and unfair on those who wish to play legit.

 

[Farel17]

quick peice of logic if someon eis using a bug that ignores shields then why dont u use the bug 2
also if you dont want to use the bug build a massive ship with like a billion mass to tank all the block damage that the bugged weapons do

 

[MrTargareyan]

quick peice of logic if someon eis using a bug that ignores shields then why dont u use the bug 2

I think I stated that quite clearly, I think its immoral and unfair on those who want to play legitimately.

Also if you dont want to use the bug build a massive ship with like a billion mass to tank all the block damage that the bugged weapons do

That's not a bad idea, but unfortunately my computer can't handle that, the credit limit isn't nearly big enough, and I doubt servers could cope either. There's also the problem that I have nowhere near the building ability to build something that size and have it look good.

In any case, I have no real wish to get into a debate about this, they tend to turn into flame wars quite quickly, and even if it didn't there would be no action based on the outcome, so it would be utterly futile and pointless. I even stated at the start of my first post that I had no real cause for complaint, as the weapons will soon be fixed, and also since it is alpha, and there will always be bugs that people can exploit. All I was really doing was agreeing with Keptick and voicing my opinion (Which granted, would not sway the minds of any, and was not particularly welcome).

 

[Oro]

I had no idea whatsoever that the DFN still used the Malivolentia. I assumed they dropped it after the weapons update and replaced it with the Cherokee. So if you tested this post weapons update, then sure, I imagine it would be bad, if you tested it before that, then again, I'm not particularly surprised. The Malivolentia was a glass cannon, its defence was its ability to fly into just about any situation and blow just about everything to bits that was smaller than itself before the lag subsided so the enemy could react. (The game never particularly enjoyed loading it, we had an incident once where I spawned one at the DFN's base, which made it completely unplayable).

The turrets were also its main armament, providing 2.9 million of its 3.5m DPS if I remember correctly. Also the time it took to take the Csar's shields down was based un public information that Zoro posted, saying it has 26 million shields, though I had no way of knowing if this was true or not.

And as for Medusa turrets being bad, they weren't the most efficient things on the planet, I would admit that, I threw the weapons systems together in 10 minutes, as the amount of glowing purple was causing the craptop that I had back then to throw a hissy fit.

And yet for all the Malivolentias flaws, three 900k dps turrets on a single 450m ship with the ability to chew through hull like it was a particularly tasty beef stew was game breaking, especially with the old weapons system. I would never out of choice build something that stupidly overpowered again. That ship was closer in length to the Thunderhead than the Csar in any case, It wasn't even a big ship. The fact that your faction has built something slightly more gamebreaking (If this was with the old weapons systems in an equivalent sized ship, 3.5 million dps nowadays is easy to achieve in a capship without exploiting any bugs), has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making that building gamebreaking stuff by exploiting bugs is morally wrong and unfair on those who wish to play legit.

no the czar had 24 mil shields before the update, it now has

I had no idea whatsoever that the DFN still used the Malivolentia. I assumed they dropped it after the weapons update and replaced it with the Cherokee. So if you tested this post weapons update, then sure, I imagine it would be bad, if you tested it before that, then again, I'm not particularly surprised. The Malivolentia was a glass cannon, its defence was its ability to fly into just about any situation and blow just about everything to bits that was smaller than itself before the lag subsided so the enemy could react. (The game never particularly enjoyed loading it, we had an incident once where I spawned one at the DFN's base, which made it completely unplayable).

The turrets were also its main armament, providing 2.9 million of its 3.5m DPS if I remember correctly. Also the time it took to take the Csar's shields down was based un public information that Zoro posted, saying it has 26 million shields, though I had no way of knowing if this was true or not.

And as for Medusa turrets being bad, they weren't the most efficient things on the planet, I would admit that, I threw the weapons systems together in 10 minutes, as the amount of glowing purple was causing the craptop that I had back then to throw a hissy fit.

And yet for all the Malivolentias flaws, three 900k dps turrets on a single 450m ship with the ability to chew through hull like it was a particularly tasty beef stew was game breaking, especially with the old weapons system. I would never out of choice build something that stupidly overpowered again. That ship was closer in length to the Thunderhead than the Csar in any case, It wasn't even a big ship. The fact that your faction has built something slightly more gamebreaking (If this was with the old weapons systems in an equivalent sized ship, 3.5 million dps nowadays is easy to achieve in a capship without exploiting any bugs), has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making that building gamebreaking stuff by exploiting bugs is morally wrong and unfair on those who wish to play legit.

The czar before the shield update had 24 mil, it now has 228 mil. So yea big change. Not to mention that actually getting to the core is a whole different story.

Also what have we built and used that is gamebreaking? Please do mention.

Like i said earlier, you don't know if the Vaygr exploited bugs. So please stop mentioning it, and even if we were what is to stop you from doing it as well?

 

[Unnamed25]

Oh yea, were those the ones that got destroyed by 400 mass ship made by Leanson? Ah such smart design indeed.
Anyways I doubt what you said is true, seeing as you have been killed so many times by the CR crew, and they have captured your ships. You should probably just get over it, no need in making a fool of yourself any longer.


As for this comment, its entirely true. We will use everything made available in the game to use, unlike many other faction's ships which are just flat out embarrassing. Even without the beams it takes only seconds to destroy large dfn ships with turrets alone.

So yea... get used to it.

Quote me saying that the designs were smart and perfect.
I said i wasn't "not smart enough" to try to use them, not that the designs themselves are perfected and are the best
I have only made a ship once with that bug exploit, of course it's going to get annihilated by a smaller but more effective ship with more skill put to the design.

1 kill was while i was typing, and 1 was on that 1st bug exploiter ship i made(only reason he won easily is the design sucks to do lots of damage to internals)
The other ones were more of a joke(and me suiciding)
Like attacking him with a 40 mass fighter and using an enterprise someone gave me.(don't mind if you call them me being killed by Leanson)
Oh did i mention 3-4 of them were on my spawn point? Even if it was my mistake to set it there i was on character mode.

As far as i know they only captured that ship i got on the forums and that ineffective test ship, that enterprise and the fighter, as i have never been in combat with CR, but of course ridik could have "sold" some stuff of mine while i was on DFN but that wouldn't be capturing anyway

And you have no proof the vaygr don't use it either.

 

[FlyingDebris]

First off, the Malevolentia was unofficially retired after the graphics update. The Medusas are still being replaced as a longer range turret is neccesary, and if you are telling me you cored one in two seconds on your little raid on Unnamed, I know you're thoroughly bluffing.

As to your comments on how you took out an outdated ship, you and I both know it's just a way you're trying to negate the fact that I have your ships.

I'd also like to point out that you should probably correct your OP from PvP faction to "Win regardless of the moral implications" faction, as it seems you are more focused on that than actual PvP.

 

[TwoNiner]

quick peice of logic if someon eis using a bug that ignores shields then why dont u use the bug 2

I hate how people act righteous after realizing they missed out on something juicy.

I think I stated that quite clearly, I think its immoral and unfair on those who want to play legitimately.

Yeah with your logic I guess we should never use ships with over 50k DPS cuz that would be terribly immoral and unfair to those who haven't learnt the weapon system..... Sounds ridiculous am I right? Need I remind you that the TE also uses the same weapons layout, so quit flooding this thread with your bitching.

 

[Unnamed25]

I hate how people act righteous after realizing they missed out on something juicy.

Yeah with your logic I guess we should never use ships with over 50k DPS cuz that would be terribly immoral and unfair to those who haven't learnt the weapon system..... Sounds ridiculous am I right? Need I remind you that the TE also uses the same weapons layout, so quit flooding this thread with your bitching.

Using 50k+ DPS ships on people that don't know how the weapons work is totally different from abusing bugs to make your ship otherwise impossibly better

EDIT: Ok lets just all shut up

 

[Oro]

First off, the Malevolentia was unofficially retired after the graphics update. The Medusas are still being replaced as a longer range turret is neccesary, and if you are telling me you cored one in two seconds on your little raid on Unnamed, I know you're thoroughly bluffing.

As to your comments on how you took out an outdated ship, you and I both know it's just a way you're trying to negate the fact that I have your ships.

I'd also like to point out that you should probably correct your OP from PvP faction to "Win regardless of the moral implications" faction, as it seems you are more focused on that than actual PvP.

Did you read what i said? I said we can destroy it in 3 seconds, meaning we have tested it on our server because we have the bp. Not that we met them in combat.

You have our thunderhead from over a year ago, thats it. If you have any of our new ones please do post pics. And maybe, for once, you will be more than just all talk.

And you have no proof the vaygr don't use it either.

This is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. The positive statement requires the burden of proof, but this is to be expected from you. And btw i am in the vaygr.

 

[MrTargareyan]

I do apologise, I appear to have been a little confusing, I just want to clarify some things.

The czar before the shield update had 24 mil, it now has 228 mil. So yea big change. Not to mention that actually getting to the core is a whole different story.

Also what have we built and used that is gamebreaking? Please do mention.

The examples I was using were from before the shield update, the last version of the Malivolentia that I had was from the update that fixed turrets not taking power, the examples that I was using were all historical. As for the game breaking thing I thought that you built something in 0.14 before the weapons update that could kill a Malivolentia in two seconds, which would be game breaking, just as the Malivolentia was back then. Given the ship you used was in this update (I think?), none of that applies and what I said would have been fairly confusing, sorry. Building something with dps that high post weapons update is fine in my opinion, and is perfectly easy to do legitimately.

As I stated earlier I think that min maxing is absolutely fine, I just don't agree with exploiting bugs. If its in game on purpose, and not accidentally, then I think it's perfectly moral to use it. All I was doing was voicing hypothetical support for Kepticks disagreement with bug exploitation.

So yeah, sorry for any confusion I caused.

 

[Unnamed25]

Fine, it's dumb.

? Need I remind you that the TE also uses the same weapons layout

And this is proof then
Surely he knows about your weapons since he is your ally.

 

[Keptick]

no the czar had 24 mil shields before the update, it now has

The czar before the shield update had 24 mil, it now has 228 mil. So yea big change. Not to mention that actually getting to the core is a whole different story.

Also what have we built and used that is gamebreaking? Please do mention.

Like i said earlier, you don't know if the Vaygr exploited bugs. So please stop mentioning it, and even if we were what is to stop you from doing it as well?

I need to check again, but I'm pretty sure that the VAYGR ship used by aceface in the "CR VS TE" video made use of overdrive. If video evidence isn't good enough for you, then I just don't know what is...

Besides, you're clearly being stuborn and ignoring every single point we're making and instead choosing to argue on some fairly useless (and indirect) claim I made. I'm not going to keep arguing with you, because shouting at a wall would probably be more productive. You can reply to this, but don't expect any serious answer.

Unrelated note: You completely nailed it! @MrTargareyan