Read by Schine The Nomadic Revolution [Motherships/Capital Ships as Homes]

[RedDwarfIV]

I'll just leave this here...

I didn't mean to imply I was providing original ideas. I just said I liked those ideas.

 

[lilheartless]

I suppose what I don't like is the idea of a long long drawn out fight between motherships that are both producing materials and essentially repairing/builidng new ships.

I know this isn't your specific intention but others could use it that way, but my fears could be unfounded since that might be rare. If it is your home you not take and attack that way, but if are aggressive you could use it endlessly attack/blockcade a smaller player around their planet.

I think the good thing about anchoring is, later well be able to have drone ships. I could imagine people using the drones to move race gates into position and then link by hand.

Lots to consider. I do like the idea to be able to live like a nomad though. The question is how.

what exactly don't u like about it?

I mean really with the addition of cargo space and needing a full clear area for a shipyard you could easily turn the mothership into a "carrier" that doesn't waste space on cargo and a shipyard and has just as many ships inside it as the mothership could make "while being able to deploy them all at once" i'm not exactly sure how this is a bad thing?

I personally don't understand why this particular thing is what u find issue with especially since having multiple ships finished ahead of time is actually stronger and something you can do right now.

 

[nightrune]

I've been thinking about this more lately. I think cargo is a good balancing factor for having factories on a captiol style ship and even having ship yards on one. Add a little more power draw to the factory enhancers or make it exponentional, and this suggestion is good to go. Which is pretty exciting that we could remake Homeworld inside StarMade.....

INTO THE FRONTIER!

 

[QuantumAnomaly]

I've been thinking about this more lately. I think cargo is a good balancing factor for having factories on a captiol style ship and even having ship yards on one. Add a little more power draw to the factory enhancers or make it exponentional, and this suggestion is good to go. Which is pretty exciting that we could remake Homeworld inside StarMade.....

INTO THE FRONTIER!

I agree, now, with cargo, having to haul EVERYTHING with you makes things a bit more balanced.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

I'm loving the new cargo. It fits very well with my play style and will work seamlessly into my larger craft and Command System.

They've been very generous with the space requirements so far. Higher volume salvaging isn't that much harder than it was before. I hope the system stays at least somewhat the way it is.

Word of advice; under current settings, mineral capsules (like Dolom, Lukra, Sugil, etc) and paints tend to take up a LOT of space. The reason for this is because, the raw minerals generate 30 capsules per block; effectively multiplying your storage requirements by 30.

 

[Lukwan]

Losing the invulnerability of Home-base would probably be enough of a nerf for those who want to go Nomad. A floating factory would make an awkward assault ship due to the mass penalties.

If the risk matches the reward it could be made to work so; I think each Mothership should have a badly protected exhaust port at the end of some long trench that is vulnerable to proton torpedoes.

 

[kookster]

Personally I would make it a little simpler. I would make it so you can place any station specific things on a ship, except warp gates. I wouldn't do any buffs to them and I wouldn't make it so its a home base. Keep it simple. I wouldn't do any balancing tweaks, cause I think the additional weight/size to the ship is enough of a balancing feature.

 

[Snowfox1337]

I think making it a home base is kind of a part of the nomad lifestyle so i think that would be necessary. And a bit of a boost to at LEAST power regen softcap for the home base capital ships since they will be 1 big, slow, and not meant for combat 2 carrying the player/factions ENTIRE belongings with them 3 powering most likely large extensive resource factories that will take considerable power to run. A normal capital ship can be a combat ship but i dont see a nomad ship being able to be nearly as effective due to all the other auxilery systems, crew quarters, and cargo space needed on a ship meant to be a mobile base.

If players are going to be daring enough to pack all their resources into a ship and wander the stars for adventures and loot then i feel they deserve extensive buffs to that ship. If a nonnomad loses a capital ship its a blow...but his home is still intact. If a nomad loses his ship he has lost the capital ship AND his home base with one blow. And people say no buffs to them is BALANCE?!?!?!

 

[the_Grey_Sky]

I think making it a home base is kind of a part of the nomad lifestyle so i think that would be necessary. And a bit of a boost to at LEAST power regen softcap for the home base capital ships since they will be 1 big, slow, and not meant for combat 2 carrying the player/factions ENTIRE belongings with them 3 powering most likely large extensive resource factories that will take considerable power to run. A normal capital ship can be a combat ship but i dont see a nomad ship being able to be nearly as effective due to all the other auxilery systems, crew quarters, and cargo space needed on a ship meant to be a mobile base.

If players are going to be daring enough to pack all their resources into a ship and wander the stars for adventures and loot then i feel they deserve extensive buffs to that ship. If a nonnomad loses a capital ship its a blow...but his home is still intact. If a nomad loses his ship he has lost the capital ship AND his home base with one blow. And people say no buffs to them is BALANCE?!?!?!

I agree with this 100%

I personally like playing by myself, this makes it very difficult to create much of a faction, with enough power to keep my self from getting wiped out.

So I'm all for having a bit of a boost, or possibly event a clocking mechanic for offline players, to stop there hard worked for home from getting destroyed while offline. Maybe have an out of play feature. that has a 5 minute charge time, meaning the craft only go's out of play after entire faction has been offline for more than five minutes, and only for factions with less than five members, and only if there home base is a mother ship.

I say this as it will allow for possibly a small group of five players to have fun together and be nomadic without getting destroyed every time they go offline.

 

[nightrune]

So what about this:

When a player logs off in a ship designated as home, it turns into a hologram and drains faction points. No one can interact with it and it can't interact with anything else but you can still see it. So if you log off for too long, the ship becomes solid again and is up for grabs just like the current faction system.

You've already got huge power penalties for lots of factories, and a shipyard. I think this is fair.

 

[kookster]

My suggestion would be:
Treat it like a normal home base.

Though I think the way faction points work should change. Which I haven't made a post for my suggestion and probably should.

 

[nightrune]

My suggestion would be:
Treat it like a normal home base.

Though I think the way faction points work should change. Which I haven't made a post for my suggestion and probably should.

I don't think anyone accepts having a massive invulnerable warboat showing up to your planet.

 

[kookster]

I don't think anyone accepts having a massive invulnerable warboat showing up to your planet.

Good point.

What if it stays invulnerable until you attack? So if you decide to attack someone your base loses invulnerability for a while? Or something like this perhaps.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

NO!!! No invulnerability. Bad, bad, BAD idea. You want to be a nomad? Pay the price like I do. The current incarnation of my command system has 12 million shields. If I am stupid enough to bring everything I own to a fight, than I am willing to accept the consequences. Why should it be any different for anyone else. Likewise; if you bring your Death Star to my base and park it, don't get all butt hurt when someone targets your 2 meter wide exhaust port.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Ok. I've explained ad nauseum how I move a mobile base around and "anchor" it into place to get faction home base protection. I get ALL the benefits of a faction-home-base with the ability to pack up and leave with some very minor preparations.

Since no one else seems willing to try this, I propose a compromise.

- Create a "capital block" that when activated, creates an electro-magnetic envelope/gravity well that "anchors" the ship like station and allows the addition and use of station-specific blocks on the ship.
- The block creates a large power drain when active that is determined by the ship's mass; similar to the radar jammer and cloak but more reasonable.
- When the ship is anchored, faction home protection becomes temporarily available but goes away when you deactivate the capital block to become mobile. A charge up (like a scanner) and/or cool-down period would prevent abuse.
- Activating faction-home-protection on the capital will deactivate protection on any other faction home base.
- The gravity well of an anchored capital would show up on long range sensors like a station or planet; making it visible but only broadcasted when the faction home feature is used on it.
- The ship cannot claim territory or mining bonuses without a faction controlled planet/station in the system. The ship (whether anchored or not) uses the faction points equivalent of one star system; regardless of it's location or anchorage status. If the faction has no territory, no faction point cost is incurred.
- The capital block's gravity well will be disrupted near any station, planet, star or black hole making it impossible to create a stable anchorage near them unless you either dock to the entity or take the time to build an "anchor station", as I explained earlier. The default 1 sector range sounds good but the Devs can decide on a default distance and hopefully leave it as a server config option (on/off and specified range).
- The blocks intense gravity field disrupts long range targeting; limiting the engagement ranges of all onboard weapons, docked AI, swarmers/heat seekers and turrets to 1 sector. This keeps people from parking outside their neighbor's base with a faction-home-protected monstrosity and griefing them with sniper missile turrets.

Your thoughts?

 

[Blaza612]

Wasn't expecting this thread to come back to life, but I like it. :p

NO!!! No invulnerability. Bad, bad, BAD idea. You want to be a nomad? Pay the price like I do.

I completely agree, I'm pretty sure I stated in the OP that there will be NO invulnerability for the caps/motherships. :p

- Create a "capital block" that when activated, creates an electro-magnetic envelope/gravity well that "anchors" the ship like station and allows the addition and use of station-specific blocks on the ship.

Personally, I don't like the idea of anchoring, but I guess I'll have to leave this to overall thoughts, after everything else that's been said.

- The block creates a large power drain when active that is determined by the ship's mass; similar to the radar jammer and cloak but more reasonable.

Too much nerf, power will already have to compensate for all of the other systems, thus creating a massive drain.

- When the ship is anchored, faction home protection becomes temporarily available but goes away when you deactivate the capital block to become mobile. A charge up (like a scanner) and/or cool-down period would prevent abuse.

The thing is, I like this idea, and it makes me want anchoring, but I'm now torn between not anchoring but being vulnerable, and anchoring but being invulnerable. I'm going to have to see what others think. :p

- Activating faction-home-protection on the capital will deactivate protection on any other faction home base.

The point of a mothership, is to be there for one/two man factions, or people who want to roam alone or without a large group. Capitals, I should change so that they have more limited bonuses, and will probably be used for more specific roles, such as dreadnoughts or supercarriers, or possibly a giant industrial command ship. All terms ripped from EVE because I'm shit with names. :p

- The gravity well of an anchored capital would show up on long range sensors like a station or planet; making it visible but only broadcasted when the faction home feature is used on it.

I mostly like this as a trade-off for invulnerability. However, it needs to be adjusted. Just like any Nomads, they're not going to stay in that one place forever, thus they'll leave and become vulnerable. If this is shown to EVERYONE on the server, then it's just a giant target, for all people, to set up some turrets or some shit when it becomes vulnerable again. This kind of stuff will still persist, even after the debuff mentioned below. I'd rather it shows where the cap/mother is to any players in the same system, and that info will stay until they return and learn it's moved. This can work with the possibility of players sharing maps, that way, a player can sell the location of a cap/mother to a faction for a price.

- The ship cannot claim territory or mining bonuses without a faction controlled planet/station in the system. The ship (whether anchored or not) uses the faction points equivalent of one star system; regardless of it's location or anchorage status. If the faction has no territory, no faction point cost is incurred.

For caps, yes, for mothers, no. I'm going to make some serious changes to the suggestion, to again, make caps to be more specialized, and not used for a factions home, but more as end-game ships for factions to use. A mothership is again meant to be a mobile home for a couple of people, there will be disadvantages if you have more people in your faction that relies on the one ship, this will be part of the updating of the OP.

- The capital block's gravity well will be disrupted near any station, planet, star or black hole making it impossible to create a stable anchorage near them unless you either dock to the entity or take the time to build an "anchor station", as I explained earlier. The default 1 sector range sounds good but the Devs can decide on a default distance and hopefully leave it as a server config option (on/off and specified range).

I also like this. If anchoring becomes the thing people want, then there'll have to be a minimum distance of 1 sector away from any station, planets however, not too sure. Again, depends on what people want.

- The blocks intense gravity field disrupts long range targeting; limiting the engagement ranges of all onboard weapons, docked AI, swarmers/heat seekers and turrets to 1 sector. This keeps people from parking outside their neighbor's base with a faction-home-protected monstrosity and griefing them with sniper missile turrets.

Definitely agree, but we still need to not paint a giant target on a cap/mother for the whole server to see, as this can still kill it. :p


Overall, I agree with most of it. However, I'd like to know from everyone whether they want to have anchoring with invulnerability when anchored, or not anchoring but being vulnerable 24/7. This if for mothers exclusively, caps will be changed drastically in a bit, and you'll see why they wont have anchoring or the likes. And again, don't paint a giant target on caps/mothers for the whole server, and no constant power drain for anchoring, an initial power cost to anchor/de-anchor would be fine, but other than that, it becomes too nerfed. We need to make sure that these things are nerfed to be balanced, but not too nerfed that they wont be worth using.
[DOUBLEPOST=1450947996,1450947715][/DOUBLEPOST]Actually, should I just make a new thread with all the new changes, so that everyone can form an opinion on the new system, and so that Schine will see it, or should I simply update this OP with the changes?

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Wasn't expecting this thread to come back to life, but I like it. :p



I completely agree, I'm pretty sure I stated in the OP that there will be NO invulnerability for the caps/motherships. :p



Personally, I don't like the idea of anchoring, but I guess I'll have to leave this to overall thoughts, after everything else that's been said.



Too much nerf, power will already have to compensate for all of the other systems, thus creating a massive drain.



The thing is, I like this idea, and it makes me want anchoring, but I'm now torn between not anchoring but being vulnerable, and anchoring but being invulnerable. I'm going to have to see what others think. :p



The point of a mothership, is to be there for one/two man factions, or people who want to roam alone or without a large group. Capitals, I should change so that they have more limited bonuses, and will probably be used for more specific roles, such as dreadnoughts or supercarriers, or possibly a giant industrial command ship. All terms ripped from EVE because I'm shit with names. :p



I mostly like this as a trade-off for invulnerability. However, it needs to be adjusted. Just like any Nomads, they're not going to stay in that one place forever, thus they'll leave and become vulnerable. If this is shown to EVERYONE on the server, then it's just a giant target, for all people, to set up some turrets or some shit when it becomes vulnerable again. This kind of stuff will still persist, even after the debuff mentioned below. I'd rather it shows where the cap/mother is to any players in the same system, and that info will stay until they return and learn it's moved. This can work with the possibility of players sharing maps, that way, a player can sell the location of a cap/mother to a faction for a price.



For caps, yes, for mothers, no. I'm going to make some serious changes to the suggestion, to again, make caps to be more specialized, and not used for a factions home, but more as end-game ships for factions to use. A mothership is again meant to be a mobile home for a couple of people, there will be disadvantages if you have more people in your faction that relies on the one ship, this will be part of the updating of the OP.



I also like this. If anchoring becomes the thing people want, then there'll have to be a minimum distance of 1 sector away from any station, planets however, not too sure. Again, depends on what people want.



Definitely agree, but we still need to not paint a giant target on a cap/mother for the whole server to see, as this can still kill it. :p


Overall, I agree with most of it. However, I'd like to know from everyone whether they want to have anchoring with invulnerability when anchored, or not anchoring but being vulnerable 24/7. This if for mothers exclusively, caps will be changed drastically in a bit, and you'll see why they wont have anchoring or the likes. And again, don't paint a giant target on caps/mothers for the whole server, and no constant power drain for anchoring, an initial power cost to anchor/de-anchor would be fine, but other than that, it becomes too nerfed. We need to make sure that these things are nerfed to be balanced, but not too nerfed that they wont be worth using.
[DOUBLEPOST=1450947996,1450947715][/DOUBLEPOST]Actually, should I just make a new thread with all the new changes, so that everyone can form an opinion on the new system, and so that Schine will see it, or should I simply update this OP with the changes?

You missed something. It's not that bad...

Anchoring is ONLY so it doesn't drift away. It's totally optional and does not grant invulnerability, nor does it grant or restrict station-specific block placement or automatically cause faction-home protection.

Faction protection, the associated broadcast and invulnerability are only turned on if you activate them using a faction block. You are not required to do this under my idea. The capital/mothership is completely mobile the anchoring ability is basically a way for people adjusting to nomadic life to NOT lose all their stuff while offline due to bad planning.

Each step adds a layer of protection;
- fully mobile and vulnerable: for the daring and properly prepared
- stationary but not invincible: so it doesn't drift due to some issue with the game.
- Faction home protected: for the ill prepared or paranoid. The cost for this is broadcasting your location.

This allows you to adapt your ship to it's role; capital, mothership, capital industrial, etc.

On second thought, I think sector map visibility should not be added at all. Allow faction home broadcast declarations but it's still a ship; make the thing hard to find...

As for the thread update, you might add an edit line with the plan breakdown.

 

[nightrune]

As for the thread update, you might add an edit line with the plan breakdown.

An edit line is probably the best.

This getting pretty close to a complete idea. Anymore thoughts on being able to move stations? I thought that mechanic would really simplify things for players.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

An edit line is probably the best.

This getting pretty close to a complete idea. Anymore thoughts on being able to move stations? I thought that mechanic would really simplify things for players.

I agree with this. I've come to the conclusion that since we all have our own style of play, that there should be several ways to go full nomad. I already have my way; which is a hybrid of your idea and Blaza612's but some people may want the simplicity of a station or the fluidity of a capital/mothership.

With regard to moving a station; How about a station tug system?

Just as we can use the rail/docker system to carry a fighter or dock to a station, it's possible that the system could be made to work in reverse with a few Dev tweaks. Here's how...

- Add a rail docker to a station and assign it to the hotbar.
- Allow build blocks to control hotbar items and enter flight mode (immobile of course) when at least one camera is on the structure. This would also allow for more realistic "control console" areas (helm, tactical, co-pilot, etc.) for ships.
- Bring a ship with a lot of thrust and a "rail basic" near the station.
- Dock the station to the ship using the above mentioned modified rail docker/build block setup.
- Move your station by flying the "tug" ship to its destination.
- At your new location, undock the station using the above mentioned modified rail docker/build block setup.
- For balance: the station cannot use any weapons, support tools (logic triggered or not), turrets, or station-specific blocks while being towed. Faction home protection is turned off until relocation is complete and must be manually reset through the faction menu.

What do you think?

 

[nightrune]

- Allow build blocks to control hotbar items and enter flight mode (immobile of course) when at least one camera is on the structure. This would also allow for more realistic "control console" areas (helm, tactical, co-pilot, etc.) for ships.

What do you think?

I'm hoping this comes in with Chairs and Stations. Being able to use inner ship remotes with a chair would be awesome on a station, and being able to put cameras around would be awesome as well. I'm down with that.