StarSide Blood and Steel: Season 2

    Master_Artificer

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    guys. the 12k mass limit is fine!

    It is at, what I think is, a good level. You get ships around 200 blocks long and 50-75 wide and tall, (based on my experience, these numbers are not calculations) and those are not small nimble fighters. And it means that armor tanks wont dominate the battlefield, but means that advanced armor cubes will need to be placed strategically.

    I think we should keep the mass limit, not ditch it.
     

    Keptick

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    If you ever go with 3x3 4km sectors say hello to sector change bugs. It'd be better to have one 12km sector with adjusted weapon ranges and speeds. Base weapon range could be 4km, meaning that without beam secondary, beams would have 2km range and cannons/missiles 4km range. Beam secondary would do the usual 4x range (pretty sure that's what it does). Speed would also be adjusted proportionaly. Tweaking the configs for range/speed changes would be really easy.

    So basically, it'd be the same as 3x3 4km sectors for weaponry, and you wouldn't get the transition issues associated with sector changes. It's a bit more work for the organizers but totally worth it imo.
     
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    Say hello to sector change bugs. It'd be better to have one 12km sector with adjusted weapon ranges and speeds. Base weapon range could be 4km, meaning that without beam secondary, beams would have 2km range and cannons/missiles 4km range. Beam secondary would do the usual 4x range (pretty sure that's what it does). Speed would also be adjusted proportionaly. Tweaking the configs for range/speed changes would be really easy.

    So basically, it'd be the same as 3x3 4km sectors for weaponry, and you wouldn't get the transition issues associated with sector changes. It's a bit more work for the organizers but totally worth it imo.
    so that would be 75 default speed then and you really need to fly to make your guns reach the enemy? i'd like that, for it would offer more tactical play but it would probably mean longer play. with their setting it is just like start firing you might hit someone on the other end of the map.
     

    Tunk

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    Kepticks right on the mark there, also helps mitigate a few bugs with long range beam weapons as well.
     

    Matt_Bradock

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    12K mass limit per team, team of 3, 4K mass per ship - that means if they use anything heavier than basic hull, they will be a lot smaller than 40K blocks. Especially with any kind of turrets involved - and in an environment so hard-rigged for missile boats, no point defense and basic hull would be pretty much a suicide attempt.
    The most important defense of a ship that size is mobility and a permajammer - but of course swarm missiles ignore jammers, guided missile turrets ignore jammers, and scanner pings put them on a cooldown long enough to acquire missile lock - also, in a locked sector, unless the weapon ranges are tampered with, there is no way to get out of range.
    And to this, comes the fact that since the damage buffs to everything, a single 12K mass ship can equip a missile array, or even turrets, that with one shot, strip all shields from a 4-6K mass ship and do some armor damage too, unless the small one sacrifices mobility and offensive power in favor of trying to tank it - which is, again, very counterproductive as they will have even less chance of getting through to the big one without considerable firepower.
    The thing is, with the current power and shielding balance settings, 12K mass is an actual threshold. Up until that, stat by stat, 1 large ship beats 2 or more small ships of equal total mass because it has a more efficient power grid (longer power strips, better power cap scaling) while the thrust scaling doesn't take such a heavy hit at that size yet. A 12K mass ship can, if built well, sustain a lot of systems that scale with mass(as they take a specific percent of the ship's mass) with its softcapped efficient power grid (jammer, ion, overdrive etc.).

    It's actually above 12K mass where 1 million power/sec isn't enough any more. And that's where bigger ships lose their edge against smaller ones, because they need to dedicate a lot more blocks to their power generation, whether integrated or docked reactors, in order to keep scaling their firepower and also a lot more thrusters due to diminishing returns, if they intend to keep their mobility, which becomes a futile attempt as they scale upwards. Above 12K mass, 2 smaller ships can and will beat a large ship of equal total mass, because their power generation will be more efficient, and their better mobility (both thrust/mass ratio and turn ratios) will force the big one to rely on swarm missiles and turrets to deal damage, as they will very rarely get a direct line of sight to use beams, cannons or lock-on missiles.
     
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    A little bit faster? Slightly better radar jamming? Are you kidding? Advance armor weighs 5 times as much as basic hull. If you want to be fast and jamming capable with advanced armor, you need to dedicate a MASSIVE amount of space to thrust and power. Space that could have gone to weapons and other kinds of defense systems.

    And yes, advanced is strong. But an anti-armor weapon, combined with alpha style cannons, can easily break through it. MGs are not the most powerful weapon of all time at smaller scales. Deal with it by using heavier weapons.
    If that's the case, it's time for some more testing.
     

    Raisinbat

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    Has there been any news on the mass limits? Are we staying 12k or is it getting a bump?
     

    Tunk

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    I see no problem with 12k mass, other than people whining about their old adv armour laden ships being obsolete.
     

    Lecic

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    I see no problem with 12k mass, other than people whining about their old adv armour laden ships being obsolete.
    The problem is not that people need to build new designs for this- that's to be expected since the general weapon meta has shifted anyway. The problem is that an entire type of defense (Armor tanking) is not really viable with a mass limit instead of a block limit because advanced weighs so fucking much.
     
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    Links in the description for further information.

    More posts here as we can release more details.
    Couple questions.
    What type of battles will these be 1 vs 1 or Free for all?

    If this is a about winning a battle I am assuming appearance isn't something we need to worry about?
     

    Lecic

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    What type of battles will these be 1 vs 1 or Free for all?
    StarSide Enjin Link In Video Description said:
    -12,000 mass between you and your teammates (including all drones, turrets etc)
    -Minimum 1 person per team but as many as you want above that
    If this is a about winning a battle I am assuming appearance isn't something we need to worry about?
    StarSide Enjin Link In Video Description said:
    -Ships will be reviewed on the basis of detailing, stats, size, and potential for teamwork before the fight.
    grumbles about people never reading the fucking description
     
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    grumbles about people never reading the fucking description
    I did read the description. When I asked 1 vs 1 I am asking is it 1 team vs another team or will it be a free for all.

    But go ahead show me in this crap where it specifies that. Or tell me what time frame in the video.
    Other wise STFU!

    -Anyone from any server may participate
    -12,000 mass between you and your teammates (including all drones, turrets etc)
    -Minimum 1 person per team but as many as you want above that
    -Rail docks must be used.
    -Speed will be 145m/s
    -AI targeting will be set to 500, this is 5 times as good as hard mode.
    -Fighting in a 12km locked sector
    -Ships must be submitted at the latest by Tuesday December 1st, 1159 pm EST, no alterations after that.
    -Multiple ships must be attached to a frame when sending me the blueprints, frame mass will not be included in your mass. This means that all ships fighting must be attached to a single frame so that we only need to load one blueprint.
    -Ships will be reviewed on the basis of detailing, stats, size, and potential for teamwork before the fight.
    -Tournament will be held on the Shattered Skies event server on Saturday/Sunday December5/6 2015. IP will be emailed/messaged to compettitors before the tournament.
    -I will need your IGN and all team participants IGN’s (include a team name if you like)
    -StarMade Authentication will be on
    -There are no other rules
    -Registration opens on November 6th 2015.
    Big Thank you to Machinimasound for sponsoring this tournament. If you need amazing music, like the music used in this trailer, visitwww.machinimasound.com
    Fight well my friends.
    See you Starside. ;D"
     

    Lecic

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    Last Blood and Steel had two teams squaring off at a time. I presume this one would be the same.

    As for you reading the description... I doubt it, or you would have seen that aesthetics do matter to some extent!
     
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    Can you imagine how effective navy ships would be if they cared about appearance?
    Of appearance is that big of issue I want nothing to do with the competition I only have in interest in a competition is based on performance. Its the only thing that matters in a real fight.
     

    Lecic

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    Can you imagine how effective navy ships would be if they cared about appearance?
    Of appearance is that big of issue I want nothing to do with the competition I only have in interest in a competition is based on performance. Its the only thing that matters in a real fight.
    It's not going to change who wins and loses, the whole "appearance" thing. At least, it didn't last year. That was all combat. It's just to keep basic, undetailed geometric shapes from entering.
     

    Tunk

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    Well technically there is no restriction, just pride of not being known as the 'doom cuber noob' if they review your brick.
     
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    Well technically there is no restriction, just pride of not being known as the 'doom cuber noob' if they review your brick.
    Personally that type of stuff doesn't matter to me. I only care about the fight. I never wore a flashy gui or decorated any of my fire arms or other weapons. I don't even display my families registered coat of arms. I never cared about letter jackets or any of that type of crap while in school.
    I never seen appearance as far as looking good ever win a fight looking intimidating that works but looking good only works for things like attracting friends and women. But when it comes to a fight it is useless.

    I don't buy a gun because it looks cool I buy my weapons based on functionality and performance. You seen those real nice looking polished steel swords take one into combat and watch what happens. they are high on carbon and will shatter when put against a blade designed for fighting.

    The way I look at it is 10 blocks put toward appearance could be 10 blocks spent on cannons for 100 dps.
     

    Lecic

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    The way I look at it is 10 blocks put toward appearance could be 10 blocks spent on cannons for 100 dps.
    And ten blocks of hull put towards protecting your ship while ALSO providing aesthetics protect you from someone else's cannons.
     

    Tunk

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    As a side note though, I expect pretty high DPS and/or more iterations of swarmer spammers this time around.
    Possibly a bit of drone warfare again (I considered entering a missile drone fleet for a 35 million damage alpha, but thats stretching the rules a bit too much...).