StarSide Blood and Steel: Season 2

[Fireshock]

I assume we will be given time for our shields to fill up before battle. Is there a time limit for how long that can take or we can just put 1 shield recharger on all entityes?

 

[Lecic]

And also the reason it's mass and not blocks is because everyone would use advanced armour. So what if you're a little bit faster, or you can radarjam slightly better, the sheer amount of damage it deducts makes it vastly superiour than hull.

A little bit faster? Slightly better radar jamming? Are you kidding? Advance armor weighs 5 times as much as basic hull. If you want to be fast and jamming capable with advanced armor, you need to dedicate a MASSIVE amount of space to thrust and power. Space that could have gone to weapons and other kinds of defense systems.

And yes, advanced is strong. But an anti-armor weapon, combined with alpha style cannons, can easily break through it. MGs are not the most powerful weapon of all time at smaller scales. Deal with it by using heavier weapons.

 

[Keptick]

And yes, advanced is strong. But an anti-armor weapon, combined with alpha style cannons, can easily break through it. MGs are not the most powerful weapon of all time at smaller scales. Deal with it by using heavier weapons.

I wish that could be true at all scales T_T

RIP weapon scaling.
[DOUBLEPOST=1445797715,1445797490][/DOUBLEPOST]

I definitely would like to see a slight mass increase to 16k. It was hard enough before to get enough on one team for us thryn last time, and the increase in stability is no joke either.

And for nostaliga purposes anyone wanna see the WIP larger version of the ship we thryn brought last time? Corsair MKII. Probably couldn't bring three of these and I can't say anything about my faction, but Ill be signing up for this Blood & Steel.

Also raiben. How do you plan to deal with the turrets this time :p.

That looks so much better than the blocky no-wedges thing you had last time.

 

[Lecic]

That looks so much better than the blocky no-wedges thing you had last time.

Hey! Corsair mk1 had wedges. Just no pentas, tetras, or corners. :P

 

[karkinosz]

That looks so much better than the blocky no-wedges thing you had last time.

The last one had issues with the blocklimits after it was done :| it's an issue when you have four players on one team. Scared that we might have more this time. In which case THRYN FIGHTER WING IS GO!

Not using the new corsair though, it will end up too big for us to field enough of them.

 

[Winterhome]

Are you guys serious? Just build smaller ships, it's a nerf to your team yes, but so is it for the enemy team, so it doesn't matter!

And also the reason it's mass and not blocks is because everyone would use advanced armour. So what if you're a little bit faster, or you can radarjam slightly better, the sheer amount of damage it deducts makes it vastly superiour than hull.

Just so you know, Thryn predominantly uses basic hull with lower shielding and kicks the shit out of people using thick advanced armor. The armor type doesn't really make a huge difference after you get above the 5000 block point. I just want to see people have the option to not use what are basically curvy system bricks.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

Old ships not being viable is the whole point of the tournament. Game has changed. Meta has changed. It's now again time to find out what is the strongest/best strategy.

Meta? Holy crap. Really?

When we start talking about meta in a SANDBOX game, where you BUILD YOUR OWN SHIPS, then we have a problem. A pretty big one, at that. I can deal with a meta in an RTS like Starcraft. I accept the existing of meta in a MOBA. But no way in hell will I accept any meta in Starmade.

Old ships not working any more, fine. Time for new ones I guess. But the main problem with this mass limit is, if there is a team with 3 or more members, they get less than 4K or less mass to work with per ship, their ships HAVE TO have low shielding individually (of course, small ships) and in order to bring any kind of considerable firepower, they have to save mass and use basic hull or standard armor, which in return makes then even more fragile (in addition to the low shielding)
And knowing that we will still be locked in the same sector, I'm afraid with these specs, a swarm boat like Sven's in the first game can wreak just as much or even more havoc, than first time (when he steamrolled through everyone and everything up until the grand finals when Thryn beat him within a single hair)

 

[MrFuz]

Meta? Holy crap. Really?

When we start talking about meta in a SANDBOX game, where you BUILD YOUR OWN SHIPS, then we have a problem. A pretty big one, at that. I can deal with a meta in an RTS like Starcraft. I accept the existing of meta in a MOBA. But no way in hell will I accept any meta in Starmade.

Old ships not working any more, fine. Time for new ones I guess. But the main problem with this mass limit is, if there is a team with 3 or more members, they get less than 4K or less mass to work with per ship, their ships HAVE TO have low shielding individually (of course, small ships) and in order to bring any kind of considerable firepower, they have to save mass and use basic hull or standard armor, which in return makes then even more fragile (in addition to the low shielding)
And knowing that we will still be locked in the same sector, I'm afraid with these specs, a swarm boat like Sven's in the first game can wreak just as much or even more havoc, than first time (when he steamrolled through everyone and everything up until the grand finals when Thryn beat him within a single hair)

Or, you could have modular ships.
Using docks, you could make giant borg cubes, one is just solid hull, defence, weapons, etc

You could have a ship that is versatile in any situation, and in coop, that is a must!

 

[Lecic]

(when he steamrolled through everyone and everything up until the grand finals when Thryn beat him within a single hair)

Hell, the only reason we even won was because the spawn station protected our last ship from the swarmers. He steamrolled our other two Corsairs, our Siphlid carrier, and all our drones.

 

[karkinosz]

Hell, the only reason we even won was because the spawn station protected our last ship from the swarmers. He steamrolled our other two Corsairs, our Siphlid carrier, and all our drones.

The only reason we lost ships was because some of us got too close to the swarm boat :P

 

[Fireshock]

Meta? Holy crap. Really?

When we start talking about meta in a SANDBOX game, where you BUILD YOUR OWN SHIPS, then we have a problem. A pretty big one, at that. I can deal with a meta in an RTS like Starcraft. I accept the existing of meta in a MOBA. But no way in hell will I accept any meta in Starmade.

I fully agree with that. I love creating unique strategyes, defying/countering current "norm" and seeing other people do that aswell. But I'm also being realistic, many people will copy the winner of this tournament and thus new meta will be born. There is nothing wrong with puting a little extra blocks in to systems which counter what the winner had used. Devs need us to show them what is currently OP so they can balance it.

As for Sven's swarmers, a lot has changed since then. All of you are forgeting ~3 other guys in the tournament who also heavely used swarmers and didn't do as good as Sven did. He almost won cause he designed his ship to be extremely efficient on top of using strongest weapon.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

My point is, in a single locked sector, with scaling weapon ranges, swarm boats start with an advantage. Sven took advantage of the forced close quarters to the max by using auto-swarms and beams.

Currently, the best protection against missiles is, other than point defense, guess what, advanced armor. The new damage calculation makes it so even the biggest missiles have trouble blasting through even a single layer of advanced armor, and even if they do, they can only go one or two layers under (especially in the 12K mass range).

 

[Lecic]

I liked the idea of 3x3x3 4km sectors instead of 1 12km.

 

[Drakkart]

Look, there are several things that need to be taken into account when upping mass levels. The biggest thing is this. We don't want people sitting there and not moving while firing like most capitol ship battles. That being said, we're having a meeting tonight, so it will be discussed. Update tomorrow as to if we increase the mass amount and to what we increase it to, tomorrow.

I understand all of your points and I'm inclined to agree to an extent, but just remember that we also want an event that's fun to watch from the perspective of those that will be, as well as fight in.

i would actually prefer even a lower mass limit. True some of the old ships became heavier but i don't want to see these again i want something fresh something exciting. and maybe i'd rather play the tournament between the holidays and new year. just because more people will have time to participate then. Sunday monday i think would be perfect. my2c

 

[Matt_Bradock]

i would actually prefer even a lower mass limit. True some of the old ships became heavier but i don't want to see these again i want something fresh something exciting. and maybe i'd rather play the tournament between the holidays and new year. just because more people will have time to participate then. Sunday monday i think would be perfect. my2c

Make the limit lower, and it'll turn into a dogfight. And if that happens, we'll need a week, not 2 days, to finish, because matches would last extremely long with those small ships zipping around trying to hit each other and cause considerable damage. I'm speaking out of experience, and Guthris can confirm me by just remembering that ominous free-for-all on Shattered Skies.

 

[Drakkart]

Make the limit lower, and it'll turn into a dogfight. And if that happens, we'll need a week, not 2 days, to finish, because matches would last extremely long with those small ships zipping around trying to hit each other and cause considerable damage. I'm speaking out of experience, and Guthris can confirm me by just remembering that ominous free-for-all on Shattered Skies.

8-10k mass still leave room for pretty awesome ships.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

8-10k mass still leave room for pretty awesome ships.

As long as there are only individual contestants. Take a team of 3 and you have 3K mass per teammate. It'll force people to go individual.

 

[Lecic]

Make the limit lower, and it'll turn into a dogfight. And if that happens, we'll need a week, not 2 days, to finish, because matches would last extremely long with those small ships zipping around trying to hit each other and cause considerable damage. I'm speaking out of experience, and Guthris can confirm me by just remembering that ominous free-for-all on Shattered Skies.

Take a team of 3 and you have 3K mass per teammate.

This exactly. Anyone who participated in the NFD Triathlon in October probably remembers how long the fighter battle took.

 

[godmars]

Make the limit lower, and it'll turn into a dogfight. And if that happens, we'll need a week, not 2 days, to finish, because matches would last extremely long with those small ships zipping around trying to hit each other and cause considerable damage.

I find that pretty hard to believe. Were these actually fighters that were fully kitted out or more of the 'NO MISSILES, CANNONS ONLY, FINAL DESTINATION' dealio?

Even assuming it was a team, 3k is nothing to sneeze at. There's not going to be a long, drawn out fight with ships that size unless no one knows how to build when given limited space

 

[Lecic]

You know, I just remembered that the NFD competition had 3k BLOCKS as the limit for fighters, not 3k MASS. A 3k mass ship with no limits on weapon types should have no problem taking on another one.