StarMade Ship Systems 2.0

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    Self powered turrets can continue to fight even if the reactor of the main ship is damaged, ignore EMP, and generally put very little strain on the ship they are mounted on.
    From what you listed, only EMP-ignore looks like actual issue.
    Yes, self-powered turrets put less strain on the main ship and can work rather independently, but they sacrificed some of their volume to the power systems - so they are not as effective as unpowered turrets in terms of offensive power.

    However, when the main ship is down, they must to turn off, in order to keep things balanced.
     
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    I think that this is the single most informative comment on this entire post. I agree with the majority of what you're saying. And, before I say what I say next, I want to add the disclaimer that I haven't played in months and I have never really gotten into PVP, but here is why:

    The power system is obtuse. I agree that the devs maybe aren't going about developing their game the right way, that they are trying to focus too much on an even playing field, that they are trying to force empty space. But, as a person who has never been able to get into any sort of PVP because the current power system is obtuse, and takes hours and hours to figure out how to build in effectively, I have to point out that it needs some kind of re-thinking.

    I'm not trying to ask for a completely even playing field, because you're right, players who put the time into engineering their ships really do need to be rewarded for that time. What I *am* trying to ask for however, is that something be done to make power not so obtuse, to give casual players the ability to build a ship faster, and actually take on the pirates in their SP worlds, *at least*. To make it quicker to build a ship that is functional, and has some ability to take on better engineered ships.

    Again, I agree, players who put the time into ships need to be rewarded with their ability to build better ships, but not this way, not with the ability to far outclass new players almost solely on the basis that they've played the game for thousands of hours.

    Edit: It takes too long to learn to play the game, some people have lives, the learning curve is too high, too obscure, something needs to change.
     
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    Yes, self-powered turrets put less strain on the main ship and can work rather independently, but they sacrificed some of their volume to the power systems - so they are not as effective as unpowered turrets in terms of offensive power.
    But power takes very little volume when you're just using regen and capacity, and this new power system will take even less for regen and capacity is eliminated.

    However, when the main ship is down, they must to turn off, in order to keep things balanced.
    I'm not just talking about when the main ship is fully offline, I mean during all of the intervals as well. A ship could lose all power from its main reactor and still continue fighting at nearly full effectiveness with a backup reactor because all its guns are self sufficient.
     
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    Exactly. They've been trying to fix the problem for a long time.

    I think an appropriate amount of balance would be as much as is needed to allow a variety of playstyles and end the dynamic of size=win. Dreadnaughts should totally shred AI fighters but not necessarily a player-piloted one - a good pilot should be able to dance through firing arcs like a jedi because flying a fighter should at least be an option that isn't a hilariously noobish suicide option. Because fun. Variety.

    The player piloted fighter shouldn't be able to kill a dreadnaught toe to toe, no... but a squadron of 3-5 skilled players in high-quality fighters & bombers should absolutely be able to bring down a solo player-piloted ship of any viable size.

    Otherwise the only path is dreadnaughts and that's the only option an intelligent player will choose. That's what's being fought against here - by community members and devs. Super-ships cannot be so OP that every other build style sucks or there is no game.
    A couple 10,000-block civilian freighters towing racks of drones can completely neutralize a dread's ability to shoot back with any accuracy. You can fight them flashy, trying to dance through the arcs of their turrets with a few 3000-block patrol boats, and die, or you can fight them smart, with plenty of chaff, and win.

    IRL, an Aegis destroyer has state-of-the-art radar and targeting and gobs of VLS launchers, and if a fighter approaches within a couple hundred miles, that fighter is now a puff of debris settling over the ocean. Heroics don't come into it. There is no dancing like a Jedi. Only death, mechanical and precise. :-p


    The thing is, we've been trained by movies to see space fighters as the go-to option. As the highest priority in a battle. The first and last word in combat. The big ships in the background? They're scenery. It's all about the fighters and their Top Gun escapades. Realistically, space fighters wouldn't even exist at all. They would be too small to carry adequate propellant and have the requisite delta-V to perform all those fancy maneuvers. They would be too small to carry adequate weapons. They would be a waste of a pilot:

    Space Fighters - Atomic Rockets

    A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, George Lucas added Space Fighters to the standard arsenal of SF warfare tropes. For Hollywood it was love at first flight, partly for the cool special effects, partly for the reason I gave here. At SFConsim-l the consensus has been trying to stuff the things back in the toy box for the last eight years … but no one listens to us.

    Lucas did not invent space fighters, of course. I don't specifically recall any in the SF I read growing up, but I vividly remember one in an animated series I used to watch in grade school. (That was also a long, long time ago, and alas I have no idea what show it was.) Space fighters didn't really catch on till Lucas, though — the clearest evidence being that Trek had nothing of the sort.

    So ... what exactly is a space fighter, and what does SFConsim-l have against them? If Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, and Babylon 5 are anything to go by, a space fighter is exactly what you would imagine: the spacegoing equivalent of a DeHavilland DH-4 or an F-16. It is a small spacecraft, about the size — and, oddly, roughly the shape — of a present-day fighter jet. It has a single pilot or at most a two-man crew, strapped into a cockpit with minimal habitability, clearly intended for short missions of only a day or so at most. We see them whooshing and gyrating across the screen, zapping away at each other. Now and then they also destroy the odd stray Death Star, which with typical bad-guy carelessness is designed to obliterate whole planets but cannot defend itself effectively against killer gnats.

    (Credit to Babylon 5: not only did its Starfuries have less overt similarity to atmospheric jet fighters, they sometimes even maneuvered like spacecraft instead of airplanes — an all but unique Hollywood tribute to Sir Isaac Newton.)

    So what, you may ask, do some of us have against space fighters? The atmospheric kind have been with us for more than 90 years — a shade longer than tanks — so they're no passing fad. What works in one environment, however, isn't automatically suited to a very different one, and fighter planes don't fight in space any more than tanks do. (Yes, the same false-analogy critique can be laid against the analogy of space warcraft to naval ships — but that's an issue for another post.)

    Space, first of all, is the same environment for small ships and big ones alike. This immediately knocks the stuffing out of the implicit contrast between small, fast fighters and big, slow space dreadnoughts. Fighter planes are airplanes; battleships are ships: They operate in two entirely different fluid mediums with very different properties. Battleships can't fly, and fighter jets can't cut power and drift while making repairs. There's no such essential difference between space fighters and larger ships — and no inherent reason for the fighter to be faster or more maneuverable.

    "Fast" is in fact a bit of a slippery concept when it comes to spacecraft. Speed in space is all relative to begin with; the more useful measure for a spaceship is delta v, "change in velocity" — especially, how much you can change your velocity before you run out of gas. For any given propulsion technology, the way to get more delta v isn't a more powerful engine but a bigger fuel tank. What a powerful engine does give you is higher acceleration — so you can achieve any given delta v more quickly.

    "Bigger fuel tank" and "more powerful engine" are also relative — to the size of the ship, more specifically its mass, since that's what you've got to push around. They are also contradictory in a sense — a big propellant supply means more the engine has to push around, so it is hard to get both sprightly maneuver performance (high acceleration) and extended maneuver capability (ample delta v) in the same ship.

    Which does suggest that a small, somewhat fighter-like spacecraft, designed for tactical operations with limited endurance, could be a good deal handier than big ships designed for long voyages. The short-range tactical ship — presumably transported to the battle zone by a "carrier," or operating from a nearby base — can carry a smaller and lighter fuel load relative to its size. It doesn't need the supplies, provisions, and life support of long-voyage ships — not even a proper zero-g toilet, let alone bunkrooms and a galley. (Also no crew of techs to keep it running: just a pilot.) The mass saved by leaving all of this out translates directly into higher acceleration: in tactical terms a more agile, "faster" ship.

    So isn't this our fighter, even if it doesn't look much like the Star Wars kind?

    If it's going to be a useful fighter, however, it should probably have an armament. It can't carry a very heavy one, or you lose the maneuver performance that is the fighter's reason for being. Nor can it carry much armor or other protection, for the same reason. Whatever armament and protection it does carry, however, should be sufficient to fight its enemy counterparts. If successful it destroys them or chases them off, after which it can attack bigger, slower enemy ships ... how?

    Broadly speaking, space warcraft in SF use two kinds of weapons. The more familiar are beam weapons — once called ray guns; now usually imagined as lasers or something similar. The hitch here is that our small fighter can't carry a very big one, especially since the weapon needs a power supply. Big, sluggish ships, by virtue of being big and sluggish, can carry a much heavier armament — heavy enough to zap a swarm of fighters out of the sky before the fighters can do much more than scratch the big ship's paint.

    Yes, the fighter is fast and maneuverable — but not faster than a laser beam. Nor is there much chance of jinking around to dodging one, at least at any range much less than Earth-Moon distance. Light travels that distance in one and a quarter seconds. Aiming is limited by the round trip (because the gunner depends on light, or a radar beam, etc., to see the target), so at Earth-Moon distance our fighter has two and a half seconds to dodge. That might be enough. But at a tenth of Earth-Moon distance — a piddly 40,000 kilometers — the fighter only has a quarter-second of dodge time.

    Dodging "bullets" that come at the speed of light is no way to live long and prosper. So if fortune favors the big battalions, combat between laser-armed warcraft favors big ships that can lay down powerful zaps. Maneuver hardly enters into it.
    In space, there is no gravity. There is no air or the accompanying wind resistance. There is nothing to hide behind. "Maneuver" in the sense of small ships dancing around larger ones is meaningless. You can rotate on any axis, transfer orbits from one body to another, and translate in any direction. There are no Split-Ses or Immelman Turns. Again, there is no gravity. There's no ballistic drop. There's no friction. Once something is set in motion, it does not stop until it hits something or turns around and brakes.

    If this were real life, a "space fighter" would be hit by a laser beam from 300,000 km away and vaporized in seconds. It may as well be an expendable missile or a drone, and there may as well be thousands of them.

    In Starmade, there already exists huge leeway for smaller craft. A capital ship can't even shoot you unless you're basically right in the same sector. If Starmade were anything even remotely like realistic, a dreadnought would kill you from 20 whole sectors away and you wouldn't even see it coming. I just think it's absurd that people want to be able to get right up in a larger ship's face with tiny craft and actually make a dent in it.
     
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    Where did you found a super-ship which is so reliable that even some medium mobile ships can't take it down TrainDodger ?
    In any game, any film or anime, any book, super-ships are really powerful (think about Sajuuk), but they are soooo slow and big that they are just a blind turtle needing an escort to survive long enough to do their job.
    And this is good this way, imagine if you can do anything with just one poorly defended super-doom-ship.
     
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    several good points
    But IRL there is no such thing as FTL travel either. Or mining lasers, or a hundred other Starmade features.

    People want space fighters, man.

    And we know the developers want maneuverability to be a thing because there are maneuverability penalties and extremely flexible thrust options in game right now.

    A couple 10,000-block civilian freighters towing racks of drones can completely neutralize a dread's ability to shoot back with any accuracy. You can fight them flashy, trying to dance through the arcs of their turrets with a few 3000-block patrol boats, and die, or you can fight them smart, with plenty of chaff, and win.
    Exactly. Your example is just another form of no-skill, no maneuver combat via proxy-AI. It's clever - very adaptive to existing conditions, sure. Under the current meta, there is only one intelligent option because it is so OP that only a fool would choose otherwise. That's boring. It's like a FPS where only one weapon is good in every/all situations, or an RTS where only one unit type is worth building regardless of circumstance.

    I don't think the majority want only 1 route to effective gameplay. Hence massive feature overhaul.
     
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    But IRL there is no such thing as FTL travel either. Or mining lasers, or a hundred other Starmade features.

    People want space fighters, man.

    And we know the developers want maneuverability to be a thing because there are maneuverability penalties and extremely flexible thrust options in game right now.



    Exactly. Your example is just another form of no-skill, no maneuver combat via proxy-AI. Under the current meta, there is only one intelligent option because it is so OP that only a fool would choose otherwise. That's boring. It's like a FPS where only one weapon is good in every/all situations, or an RTS where only one unit type is worth building regardless of circumstance.

    I don't think the majority want only 1 route to effective gameplay. Hence massive feature overhaul.
    But the fighter meta doesn't make any sense. If fighters become the new meta, then dreadnoughts will simply turn into carriers. Take the Riesland Matthias up there. It would be trivial for me to mount 8 of my 50,000-block Hellebarde corvettes to the wings as parasite ships. You know what happens when enemy fighters approach? I launch them. The enemy fighters are now eating missile salvos that do 500k alpha damage versus their sub-50k shields. Goodnight.

    The more powerful small ships get relative to larger ones, the smaller that the ships fielded by carriers will be. You will approach a million-block ship, thinking you can take it with your squadron of bombers, and suddenly, that million-block ship will become a hundred smaller ships as tiles of what you thought were armor plating peel off and attack you.

    Fighter meta could actually make lag and performance even worse.
     
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    I get why they're going to one reactor per ship. Energy is the one big balancing resource in the game. Each ship is limited by the soft cap, but currently an easy way to get around that is by bringing multiple ships glued together. A central vessel with your thrusters and passive, a docked hull with your shields, another ship with logic fired swarmers for a main battery, and a separate ship for each turret. You're getting multiple ships worth of power generation in one entity controllable by a single player, and it works exceptionally well.

    So well that anyone who doesn't build a ship like that will lose. That's not balance.

    With this proposal, a ship's energy budget is roughly based off it's dimensions. You know how big the ship is, you install the reactor system and then figure out how to use what you have. That's an interesting design space. You still have to ask what size? How much thrust? Which passives? How much of each passive? What weapon mix? How much do you want to devote to electronic warfare? How much of those weapons do you want as main battery prow weapons versus turrets?

    And with the chamber system, it opens up MASSIVE possibilities for different chamber types going forward. In a few seconds I can think of several options; More thrust, Better turning radius, Faster missile lock on, Extended range on beams, more efficient cargo capacity, long range scanners, better salvage rays, etc, etc, etc

    No offense, but I don't think every ship being exactly the same is going to be an issue here.

    Needless to say I really like this proposal. (y)

    My only real concern is that I don't want to go back to a power system so limited that a ship much over 250K blocks isn't viable. I don't want them to be an automatic "I win", but capital ships are still cool! :cool:
     
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    Fighters are not becoming the new meta...
    What we want is that a titan can be destroyed by a good squad of smaller ships, not one fighter. A titan might be what he has to be : a powerful weapon but expensive and weak if alone. It's not balanced if your ship can have all you want without drawbacks.

    No one said fighters should do this, as this is imbalanced in a game (but IRL if the fighter is not intercepted, with a missile well-placed it can do some damage to the titan).
     
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    The developer statement dictates one active reactor per entity. Advocating for reactor turrets is nothing more than begging for a workaround to prevent a cap on scalability that will end AI-turret dominion-through-lag. All the tangents and side-arguments don't break this simple fact.
    I want to thank you so much for your post. You put into words an argument that I was only able to guess at, I do agree with you wholeheartedly. Thank you.
     
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    But the fighter meta doesn't make any sense. If fighters become the new meta
    This entire comment premises OP fighters, not balance. No one wants to nerf dreadnoughts in favor of a different OP meta either.

    People want a variety of balanced options.
     
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    If fighters become more powerful we will just have to compensate with greater anti-fighter defense. Just like real vessels do today.
     
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    Fighters are not becoming the new meta...
    What we want is that a titan can be destroyed by a good squad of smaller ships, not one fighter. A titan might be what he has to be : a powerful weapon but expensive and weak if alone. It's not balanced if your ship can have all you want without drawbacks.

    No one said fighters should do this, as this is imbalanced in a game (but IRL if the fighter is not intercepted, with a missile well-placed it can do some damage to the titan).
    I'm assuming you think that, for instance, three 50,000-block ships, together massing 150,000 blocks, should be able to take out one 3,000,000-block ship with proper tactics, right?

    Congratulations. My 3,000,000-block ship's underside just split into thirty 50,000-block ships, leaving behind a skeletal 1,500,000-block mothership. You are now outnumbered ten to one. What do you do?
     
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    I'm assuming you think that, for instance, three 50,000-block ships, together massing 150,000 blocks, should be able to take out one 3,000,000-block ship with proper tactics, right?

    Congratulations. My 3,000,000-block ship's underside just split into thirty 50,000-block ships, leaving behind a skeletal 1,500,000-block mothership. You are now outnumbered ten to one. What do you do?
    Are those 30 AI-piloted, or human piloted? Because I've seen humans shred dozens of equivalent AI entities each in melee many times.

    Humans vastly outperform AI in Starmade, given the ability to maneuver. My complaint over reactor turrets is that the excessive entity stacking, size inflation and hyper-complexity (in calculation terms) that results from that window to near-infinite scalability artificially nerfs the humans' greatest edge by causing lag, thereby FORCING all successful strategies to revolve around relying on AI.

    Do you want the only way to win to be via AI (turrets, drones, etc)?

    Personally, I don't want to be limited to setting up combat simulations and watching AIs duke it out. I want to fight sometimes too and not have that be a futile effort because of lag, because my opponent is relying on exploiting lag to win because it does not affect his AIs the way it does humans.
     
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    I'm assuming you think that, for instance, three 50,000-block ships, together massing 150,000 blocks, should be able to take out one 3,000,000-block ship with proper tactics, right?
    Stop to think about mass, if their combined weapons can beat the shield regen then yes. Because mobility and no more OP turrets.
    But I agree that 50k is maybe too light, or they must be more than 10.
     

    Matt_Bradock

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    In space, there is no gravity. There is no air or the accompanying wind resistance. There is nothing to hide behind. "Maneuver" in the sense of small ships dancing around larger ones is meaningless. You can rotate on any axis, transfer orbits from one body to another, and translate in any direction. There are no Split-Ses or Immelman Turns. Again, there is no gravity. There's no ballistic drop. There's no friction. Once something is set in motion, it does not stop until it hits something or turns around and brakes.

    If this were real life, a "space fighter" would be hit by a laser beam from 300,000 km away and vaporized in seconds. It may as well be an expendable missile or a drone, and there may as well be thousands of them.

    In Starmade, there already exists huge leeway for smaller craft. A capital ship can't even shoot you unless you're basically right in the same sector. If Starmade were anything even remotely like realistic, a dreadnought would kill you from 20 whole sectors away and you wouldn't even see it coming. I just think it's absurd that people want to be able to get right up in a larger ship's face with tiny craft and actually make a dent in it.
    While this is true to a degree, let's not forget that directed energy weapons, especially beam weapons aren't so widespread in universes other than Trek (which is why Trek has very little in terms of fighters - IT STILL HAS THEM THOUGH see for example the Peregrine Class) Also let's not forget that despite space, dradnaughts are unlikely to be as maneuverable as the fighters - they will be sluggish, because while friction is not a thing in space, inertia is. And you gonna need a lot of force to move a couple hundred thousand tons - or to stop it. Without it tearing itself apart due to G forces and structural critical points.

    Let's take a look at other universes though.
    - Battlestar Galactica (reboot) - Vipers maneuver fully Newtonian, and their primary role in the series is to fend off Cylon Raiders going for the CIVILIAN ships (fighters should always try to go for weak spots.) Also, Cylon Raiders were shown more than once to carry NUKES - which is quite a potent anti-capital weapon especially since BSG HAS NO SHIELDS. Vipers were also shown in one episode to to a lateral strafe while firing to do maximum damage to an unarmed and unarmored Cylon Resurrection Ship.
    Relation to StarMade: Fighters aren't supposed to fight battleships - they are however good to carry warhead torpedoes on shootout rail launchers or to attack mining operations, to do damage in a cost-effective package.

    - Babylon 5 - Ships are behaving mostly according to Newtonian physics. Controlled energy weapons are present, but actual beam weapons are not as much, except for highly advanced races like the Shadows, Vorlon, and Minbari. Earth ships either have them spinal mounted, or on turrets on capital ships only (and turreted versions only on later designs such as the Victory). Directed energy weapons mostly have the form of plasma launchers. Due to lack of shields, again, fighters can damage weak points of enemy capital ships and they do numerous times.

    - Homeworld - Still no shields. Mass driver weapons everywhere. In Homeworld 1, beam weapons are extremely powerful but slow firing ion cannons, exclusive to frigates and up (and frigates have to be BUILT AROUND THE GUN) the only turreted version of them are on the biggest warships. HW2 has lasers mounted on corvettes and in certain cases, fighters, but they are still not 100% accurate due to target acquisition speed and inefficient tracking.
    Fighters in HW are mostly effective only against other fighters and resourcers. Only specialised bombers can actually harm capital ships significantly, and those are absolutely decimated by corvettes and fighter craft. CAPITALS HOWEVER ARENT EFFECTIVE AGAINST FIGHTERS AND CORVETTES (except the Missile Destroyer) due to slow turning turrets and slow projectiles. Corvettes have specialised versions (Multi-gun corvette) to get rid of fighters with great efficiency with their fast-tracking turrets.
    Relation to Starmade: Homeworld fighters are a great example of what TrainDodger describes in his post. Just like in Starmade, they excel only against ships in the same weight class and unarmed support or resource craft, good only in the early game, to fend off bombers and to decimate unescorted resourcers. A single unescorted dreadnaught CAN tear through fighters, you need a LOT of different sized ships to flank and take down Sajuuk for example. Bombers are best to take down subsystems on caps (in HW2 and Remastered)

    - Star Wars - the origin of space fighters. SW has shields, and fighters have specialised weapons to bypass them (proton torpedoes, concussion missiles etc.) Beam weapons are rare and usually so big that they have to be spinal mounted, requiring the whole ship to turn to aim - and thus useless against fighters. The movements have nothing to do with realism though.

    - Mass Effect - Mass Effect also mostly relies on mass drivers, and the fighters used in space combat were actually first Earth's idea. Their small ships (fighters, frigates) can carry Javelin missiles for anti-cap duty. Directed energy weapons are unheard of before the Collector/Reaper threat, and as such they tear through the kinetic barriers (and the ships) of the Alliance fleet - mostly because those barriers are designed against kinetic weapons.
    The Reapers also have beam-equipped fighters, and they are as formidable as they should be.

    - Stargate - Shields are a thing and as critical as they are in Trek and Starmade. Beam weapons are still extremely rare and courtesy of the most highly advanced races (such as the Ori and the Asgard who give it to Earth before their homeworld is destroyed). All major factions except the Asgard employ fighters, which are usually no threat to a shielded capital - but can cause some trouble with the shields down. They are more often used to support ground operations, though (especially by the Goa'Uld and Wraith)

    - The Expanse - beam weapons are unheard of, so are shields or artificial gravity. Flight is fully Newtonian to the extreme. Fighting is done with long-range missiles/torpedoes (often with nuclear warheads), and close-range with railguns on capital ships, and rapidfire point defense cannon turrets on both larger and smaller vessels, the later both used offensively and defensively. There is no thing as "fighters", the smallest warship shown in the books and show is still considered a frigate, both in designation and size. Presumably because they are too easily taken down by the point defense that can accurately target much smaller missiles from considerable distance.

    As seen above, different universes handle fighters differently, but ultimately, they support the theory that small combat vessels could 1. either do very little damage without specialised one-time use weaponry like bombs or nuclear missiles, or 2. fall too easily to larger ships with accurate targeting systems and weapons. However, in universes that have little to no fast tracking beam weapons, OR have tracking and targeting systems with limited capabilities only, they do remain viable, if not for better, as recon and hit-and-run raiders.
     
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    A couple 10,000-block civilian freighters towing racks of drones can completely neutralize a dread's ability to shoot back with any accuracy. You can fight them flashy, trying to dance through the arcs of their turrets with a few 3000-block patrol boats, and die, or you can fight them smart, with plenty of chaff, and win.

    IRL, an Aegis destroyer has state-of-the-art radar and targeting and gobs of VLS launchers, and if a fighter approaches within a couple hundred miles, that fighter is now a puff of debris settling over the ocean. Heroics don't come into it. There is no dancing like a Jedi. Only death, mechanical and precise. :-p


    The thing is, we've been trained by movies to see space fighters as the go-to option. As the highest priority in a battle. The first and last word in combat. The big ships in the background? They're scenery. It's all about the fighters and their Top Gun escapades. Realistically, space fighters wouldn't even exist at all. They would be too small to carry adequate propellant and have the requisite delta-V to perform all those fancy maneuvers. They would be too small to carry adequate weapons. They would be a waste of a pilot:

    Space Fighters - Atomic Rockets



    In space, there is no gravity. There is no air or the accompanying wind resistance. There is nothing to hide behind. "Maneuver" in the sense of small ships dancing around larger ones is meaningless. You can rotate on any axis, transfer orbits from one body to another, and translate in any direction. There are no Split-Ses or Immelman Turns. Again, there is no gravity. There's no ballistic drop. There's no friction. Once something is set in motion, it does not stop until it hits something or turns around and brakes.

    If this were real life, a "space fighter" would be hit by a laser beam from 300,000 km away and vaporized in seconds. It may as well be an expendable missile or a drone, and there may as well be thousands of them.

    In Starmade, there already exists huge leeway for smaller craft. A capital ship can't even shoot you unless you're basically right in the same sector. If Starmade were anything even remotely like realistic, a dreadnought would kill you from 20 whole sectors away and you wouldn't even see it coming. I just think it's absurd that people want to be able to get right up in a larger ship's face with tiny craft and actually make a dent in it.
    I think you're missing the point of StarMade. Its point isn't to be realistic. Its point is to be fun to play. In my opinion, fighters would definitely be the most fun to fight in: you get to gather people together to form a fleet and go have fun zooming around chasing after other ships, plus, there's more of an element of skill involved. However, I can definitely see how commanding and managing a large frigate would also definitely be appealing. That's why we need the game to be balanced so that both ends of the spectrum are viable options. Again, the point isn't to make the game realistic, but to accommodate all playstyles.
     
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    Trying to balance capital ships vs small ships through power or similar is either very complicated or going to fail nonetheless.
    I would prefer the balance coming from different detection ranges depending on ship mass and turret turning rates or/and the already suggested carrier system where a player can control multiple fighters in sequence without respawning or even respawn on the carrier.

    My biggest concern is that the proposed minimal distance for the reactor stabilizers will end in balancing hell. (maybe minimal dimensions for the reactor-stabilizer bounding box would work better?)
     
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    • Legacy Citizen 4
    I am, personally, solidly in the camp of, this is a really solid update suggestion, and we should go ahead with it. I'm worried that a vocal minority might derail it, but I think the Devs are able to tell who the vocal minority is. And, I hope that even with some of the splitting I can see going on in these comments we can all agree that it needs to be implemented in a Dev build as presented, and tested before we decided to either move on with it, or scrap it. As far as I can tell, most people here like the proposal, but it still needs to be tested. I'm excited to see how this goes, and I look forward to the first dev release with it implemented.