Starmade interest through the years

[Edymnion]

But there is a reason I stick around, its because I want this game to be succesfull, which is the same reason I deal with angry fanboys everytime I voice my concerns rather then "Just leave" (not reffering to any specific person in this thread or otherwise)

No, you deal with angry fanboys because you say crap like "this game is a diseased farm animal that needs to be put down" instead of something thoughtful or constructive.

Even when you do try to say something constructive, you immediately put it in an aggressive, adversarial tone that instantly undermines anything you were trying to convey.

I guess its the PvP'er in you, but everything comes across as "I have to win, and if I'm not winning I have to put it down so that it looks like it doesn't matter".

 

[GDPR 302420]

I expect some common courtesy out of you. The rest of the people in this thread can, so you can too.

I am not going to sugarcoat my statements and honey up my words because they offend the players who disagree with my statements.

No, you deal with angry fanboys because you say crap like "this game is a diseased farm animal that needs to be put down" instead of something thoughtful or constructive.

Umm what?

Even when you do try to say something constructive, you immediately put it in an aggressive, adversarial tone that instantly undermines anything you were trying to convey.

See my response to silverfoe

I guess its the PvP'er in you, but everything comes across as "I have to win, and if I'm not winning I have to put it down so that it looks like it doesn't matter".

Good job trying to sneak in your "grr pvp grr" agenda into a thread that has nothing to do with PvP

 

[silverfoe]

I am not going to sugarcoat my statements and honey up my words because they offend the players who disagree with my statements.

I don't sugarcoat either. But you don't have to coat your words in mud.

 

[Crusade]

Howdy friends. Your [disposition] admin here reminding you to try and stay on topic.

Please do not spam ratings - as this is a form of spam and points will be readily given out if members continue to spam another users posts with them.

If participants in this thread cannot return it to the initial topic, the thread will be locked. If you have anything to add to the current... er, discussion, don't. Points will be given out if further insults and flaming appears after this post (with a grace buffer of two posts, subject to admin/moderation scrutiny on timing).

Thanks Dedgamepals

 

[kulbolen]

this games super dead. maybe the devs will low key make it awesome then advertise it and itll get popular. maybe they wont. well see.

 

[LoSboccacc]

The considerations so far are kinda ignoring the larger influx of similarily themed but larger scoped and more completed games:

 

[Erth Paradine]

RedAlert and I have had negative run-ins in the past, mostly because I feel a team he previously ran around with had chosen to express dissent in non-constructive ways...however, the words and actions he chooses lately, has me agreeing with him more often than not. Further, RedAlert, and a few of his previous buddies, have played on other gaming platforms I host servers for...nowhere have I seen near the toxicity as witnessed in SM...it’s almost as if SM enabled, encouraged and facilitated some degree of such toxicity.

I too paid “good money”for SM, I’ve also volunteered countless hours towards server hosting, server wrappers, debugging, bug chasing and reports (heck, I’m listed in the game credits!); just generally trying to assist Schine with improving the SM experience for all. That’s my investment...and I’m frankly more than a bit frustrated lately (see links in my signature for more details).

One of the underlying concerns with a persistent “But ALPHA!” excuse, is that PC gaming is inherently a fickle world...and it’ll be incredibly difficult to overcome the inevitable negative sentiments as SM tries to make a move towards beta, or any semblance of a release.

Further, there's a burgeoning assertion that a decline in playerbase is desired; to help with bug reporting, debugging, to lighten dev loads, to flush the community, because the stars need to align differently...etc... That's a problematic position to take, as I cannot recall any game which as weathered and rebounded from a significant player decline, even after major overhauls. Can you?

These issues are going to impact just not existing, and newer players, but such issues will also influence the decisions of more reputable managed-server hosting facilities.

Finally, since some stats were cited by the OP, there’s also Steam Stats to consider...they’re not everything, but it’s certainly showing a similar trend as Google search query patterns...and that’s worrisome: StarMade - Steam Charts

 

[Crusade]

That huge spike i believe is the Yogscast coverage of Starmade.

 

[Edymnion]

I honestly do believe the dwindling playerbase is due ENTIRELY to lack of advertising.

ALL games see people come in, play for a while, and leave. Thing is, new players only come in to replace the old ones when new people know it exists. Starmade has been flying under the radar for quite a while now. They aren't making noise. I mean, the only public advertising they've done was the trailers and the initial alpha release on Steam for fundraising. Even the Steam release didn't see any fanfare or "Everybody look at this great new game!", it just sort of appeared.

No game, no matter how good, is going to have player retention over long periods of time as the norm. And no game is going to have a GROWING user base unless it is actively advertising and putting itself out there. Which we aren't. There is going to be an initial spike as the people who are keeping their ear to the ground hear about it, they're going to see what its about, and thats about it. The main group of people who would seek the game out already know about it, and have already played it.

Like Crusade said, the big spike there corresponds to yogscast covering Starmade. Aka, when a high visibility media coverage event happened. When the game is ready for the limelight, there will be more coverage, and more players will come. But until we reach the point where we are actively advertising our existence, yes, the player base is going to shrink. That is to be expected.

As long as we keep enough people to cover the bug testing, we're fine. In fact, its best that people aren't showing a lot of interest in us right now, because things are changing. We don't need a million people complaining every time something changes.

 

[JinM]

We don't need a million people complaining every time something changes.

We don't need a million people complaining every time something changes.
Thank you sir for this words. =)

And yes totally right, like Cru mentioned: It needs like one more year or longer until Starmade has enough features to say "hey lets raise new interest". After the power update, that might be released out of the dev-build branch in one month, will come the weapons update and lets say this takes another two months. Then the universe update including planets...Maybe another 3 months? Also some factory overhaul was once mentioned...1 month more? That are allready like 8 months. And then the factions should also get an update or some sort overhaul. So the word here is: patience. And either playing happily with the game as it is right now, or to just wait. When it comes to Starmade some guys need to learn to think in bigger and galactic terms like seasons and years, instead of weeks.

 

[Edymnion]

Yup, we've got the power overhaul. Then we've got a weapons overhaul planned. And a universe overhaul. And a planet overhaul.

It would just be plain silly to do a ton of advertising and bring in lots of people, only to change the entire game right afterwards.

 

[Ithirahad]

There's at least three developers,

Nightrune is too busy with his 'actual' job to work on much codewise and Auburn was only on the team for his specific project, so that leaves Schema and whatever bits Lancake can do.
[doublepost=1506527567,1506527510][/doublepost]

Responses like this are part of the problem.

"Just leave" is the most non-productive and counter-intuitive thing you can say to concerns about the game. I've paid money for this game. I've spent enough time in this dying game that I could count it for an associates degree. If I have concerns about where this game that I'm interested in is going and I'm going to voice them.

Encouraging people to leave because they voice those concerns only makes the dwindling population problem worse and is one of the key reasons that this games population is not going to come back to life.

The very population you are claim is going to "return" when some major update comes out is not going to "return" for long if your attitude to criticism is "Just leave"

[doublepost=1506464314,1506464104][/doublepost]

It would seem that I was not the only Australian who got drunk last night

But if the game's going to die either way, according to you, does it matter? Schine doesn't seem to be in a position to 'fix' any of the problems you've brought up at the moment, so does your criticism even serve any purpose?

1. Stop making dumb decisions that effectively throw away years of development.

Their current plans require 'dumb decisions' like this, and changing them again would just mean more years of going around in circles... and we'd likely end up with a worse game in the end because they'd be trying to fit their intended goals around a core building system that doesn't serve said goals and future plans very well.

Also, are some NPC assets built by Saber and Criss in their spare time, and a bunch of balancing tweaks by Calbiri and Lancake 'years of development'?

2. Related to point 1, stop wasting time and resources. Schine have said they don't want to advertise, but then they waste the little money they have of dead end development. The upcoming power update is the biggest show of this. The fleet competition is also up there, as every single ship from that competition will have to be redone.

The fleet competition was a mistake, I'll give you that, but it didn't really waste any time or resources on the part of the developers who actually matter to this discussion. I hope they have learned their lesson on doing things like this prematurely, though.

3. Listen to the community. Schine have said they don't play the game as a game. But instead of listening to the people who do, they ignore them. Listen to the PvPers on balance, listen to the builders on build system improvements, listen to the game-breakers on bug fixing. DO NOT THINK THIS COMMUNITY WILL GO QUIETLY. If you, Schine, keep doing as you are now and bullshitting the community, do not think it will not come back to bite you. You want a new community? Good luck with that after treating the previous one like shit.

They do seem to have been partly listening to the 'game-breakers' as of recently. The problem is that their ways of reproducing and narrowing down bugs seem somewhat inadequate. There are plenty of bugs that you and I might run into all day that 'magically' disappear on the test server and/or singleplayer. They've been getting better about this too, though.

Listening to PvPers and builders is all well and good, but some of the changes needed for a balanced game now will be more "wasting time and resources", as you put it, when future additions are made.

 

[GDPR 302420]

But if the game's going to die either way, according to you, does it matter? Schine doesn't seem to be in a position to 'fix' any of the problems you've brought up at the moment, so does your criticism even serve any purpose?

You have blatantly misrepresented my point, please ready my replies fully and understand them before you comment, Thanks!

I honestly do believe the dwindling playerbase is due ENTIRELY to lack of advertising.

No, it isnt.

Lack of advertising would inhibit new incoming players, however lack of advertising does not cause outgoing players.

I am currently a member of the UIS, FCM (now known as ARS), Event Horizon, Magitek Knights, TAA and ToastTech discords/communities, in every instance where anyone within these discords have stated why they are loosing intrest/quit StarMade, and not a single response has anything to do with advertising.

You know what reasons I have seen are?

• Lack of content
• Lack of populated servers
• Lack of playerbase
• Weapon inbalances
• System inbalances
• Bugs and/or Crashes
• Lack of confidence in the developer team
• Lack of confidence in the StarMade engine
• Disrespect from a user or group
• Disrespect from developers and/or members of CIR
• Preformance getting worse and worse as updates are released
• "Dedgaem"
• Fanboys
• Anti-fanboys
• Forumside conflict
• Shady shit (such as the Vaygr blackmail crap)

These are the reaons players leave, its not nothing to do with advertising (or rather the lack of)

 

[Edymnion]

Yes, like I said, long term player retention is not normal. People will always leave any game. Its silly to expect every player to sign up for the long haul. People will get bored, people will get mad, people will leave. Thats what I said.

All you did was expand on reasons people leave. There is not a game out there you can't say people have stopped playing for those reasons.

People who keep playing the same game for years at a time are a minority, a very small one.

People leave, no new players join up because there is no advertising to let new people know the game exists. So the player base dwindles.

 

[Ithirahad]

I honestly do believe the dwindling playerbase is due ENTIRELY to lack of advertising.

No. If this game in its current state was capable of supporting a healthy playerbase, the advertising wouldn't really be needed. Some people would still come, and some people will always go, but it would be a slow process on both sides and general populations would stay at a decent place. Advertising would help inflate player numbers some, but the game wouldn't be 'dead' without it.

 

[Edymnion]

No. If this game in its current state was capable of supporting a healthy playerbase

Um, to use the phrase that everyone seems to hate, its an early alpha. Its not supposed to be able to support a self perpetuating healthy player base at this point.

Its an alpha, its buggy and unfinished by definition. So its going to have a high turnover rate. That is to be expected.

 

[Nauvran]

Um, to use the phrase that everyone seems to hate, its an early alpha. Its not supposed to be able to support a self perpetuating healthy player base at this point.

Its an alpha, its buggy and unfinished by definition. So its going to have a high turnover rate. That is to be expected.

but it's early access. so why not be able to somewhat support playerbase.

 

[Madman198237]

Salt was real.

I definitely sit between the two majors camps in this argument/these arguments: I think Schine has made mistakes (Sorry, they're only human, just like the rest of us), and I think that I'm going to keep watching this game as it grows. As for the publicity, it was really summed up well above---Schine isn't doing any publicity stuff because it doesn't make sense to do publicity stuff right now. Darn, people, be thankful for what they've done---this game is a *free, open alpha* when Schine could have easily done a pay-to-get-in standard industry closed alpha, or even just a "friends only" closed alpha. Instead, they give you a shot at the game before it's released, give you a say in development at a crucial, formative stage.

And you are going to repay that with a salty explosion of toxic wasteland? Come on, act like adults. Or, you know, mature children, for those under the age of 18.


Anyway. Ah, new post.
So, RedAlert, people leaving:
I played the World of Warships (closed) alpha, Beta Weekends, and Beta. When the game released, I stopped playing. Why? Because I had already done what I wanted to do in that game. Many, MANY other people did the same---it's rare to see an Alpha Tester flag nowadays. There are reasons that people leave and it's usually not because the game is horrible. It's because the game is still limited, and will always be---just like every other human enterprise ever started. You build until you don't really want to keep building, you explore til you don't really want to explore, and sometimes you fight and lag until you don't really want to fight or lag any more. And then? You stop playing. You don't bother searching for the game---you already know where to find it. And occasionally, like myself, you check in. Play a couple battles of WoWs, peruse SMD a bit more.

You come back, un-lurk for a bit, and then go back to waiting, and watching. It's not some sort of vindictive "I hate this game and I'm quitting for good!" --- it's just people playing, getting what they want, and leaving. And when more content is added, we'll get more people back online to test said content.

We're not losing people abnormally fast---we're just seeing the differing lengths of attention spans. ADHD Yogswarm Member #infinity ran out of interest a long time ago. Maybe now we're seeing the tail end of people with medium-length attention spans dropping out, having extracted all the fun they can get at this stage. Maybe later we'll see some of the people with lengthier attention spans dropping out to do other things for a while. But I suspect that (Like Atra) we'll have those who just keep building. They stay, they find the bugs, and Schine's got their Alpha testers, whether various other groups want to stay or not---that's all Schine needs.

It's just a natural burnout phenomena. If the game changes enough, people will come back. I know that I'll be back on when the reactor system is implemented. Heck, I might be back on tomorrow (If this laptop will survive the experience....I have little confidence) to do some stuff I've not done before, play a new server, whatever.

That turned into a much lengthier post than I had intended, so it's a little far down the lists due to clutter. Ah, well.

 

[Edymnion]

but it's early access. so why not be able to somewhat support playerbase.

We do somewhat support a player base. Everyone reading this is part of a somewhat supported player base. And while yes the player base has been shrinking, its been doing so pretty slowly. The fact that it has taken YEARS to dwindle is testament to that.

 

[GDPR 302420]

Yes, like I said, long term player retention is not normal. People will always leave any game. Its silly to expect every player to sign up for the long haul. People will get bored, people will get mad, people will leave. Thats what I said.

All you did was expand on reasons people leave. There is not a game out there you can't say people have stopped playing for those reasons.

People who keep playing the same game for years at a time are a minority, a very small one.

People leave, no new players join up because there is no advertising to let new people know the game exists. So the player base dwindles.

Now you are just backpeddling

I honestly do believe the dwindling playerbase is due ENTIRELY to lack of advertising.

is due ENTIRELY to lack of advertising.

ENTIRELY

You said the dwindling playerbase is "ENTIRELY" due to lack of advertising, my response was me saying to you "You are wrong"

So, RedAlert, people leaving:
I played the World of Warships (closed) alpha, Beta Weekends, and Beta. When the game released, I stopped playing. Why? Because I had already done what I wanted to do in that game. Many, MANY other people did the same---it's rare to see an Alpha Tester flag nowadays. There are reasons that people leave and it's usually not because the game is horrible. It's because the game is still limited, and will always be---just like every other human enterprise ever started. You build until you don't really want to keep building, you explore til you don't really want to explore, and sometimes you fight and lag until you don't really want to fight or lag any more. And then? You stop playing. You don't bother searching for the game---you already know where to find it. And occasionally, like myself, you check in. Play a couple battles of WoWs, peruse SMD a bit more.

You come back, un-lurk for a bit, and then go back to waiting, and watching. It's not some sort of vindictive "I hate this game and I'm quitting for good!" --- it's just people playing, getting what they want, and leaving. And when more content is added, we'll get more people back online to test said content.

We're not losing people abnormally fast---we're just seeing the differing lengths of attention spans. ADHD Yogswarm Member #infinity ran out of interest a long time ago. Maybe now we're seeing the tail end of people with medium-length attention spans dropping out, having extracted all the fun they can get at this stage. Maybe later we'll see some of the people with lengthier attention spans dropping out to do other things for a while. But I suspect that (Like Atra) we'll have those who just keep building. They stay, they find the bugs, and Schine's got their Alpha testers, whether various other groups want to stay or not---that's all Schine needs.

It's just a natural burnout phenomena. If the game changes enough, people will come back. I know that I'll be back on when the reactor system is implemented. Heck, I might be back on tomorrow (If this laptop will survive the experience....I have little confidence) to do some stuff I've not done before, play a new server, whatever.

That turned into a much lengthier post than I had intended, so it's a little far down the lists due to clutter. Ah, well.

I'd hate to break it to you, the more then 200,000 people that have stopped playing this game are not lurking, they are not "waiting"

They have moved on.

I am honestly tired of hearing people try and downplay StarMade's low player count by saying "its not dead the playerbase is just waiting"

I seriously am concerned for this community if people honestly think that the 200,000 people who have left this game are just "lurking" and are "going to come back soon enough"

This game is declining, very rapidly.

Stemstats show that the overall trend is a rapid decline, every time there is a gain, that gain leaves within a month or two. (StarMade - Steam Charts)

Take a look at steam stats too (StarMade -)
262,154 brought this game, guess how many have launched it in the past 2 weeks? 3,150

That is 259,004 owners of this game who have stopped playing.

This has all happened in about 2 years, Loosing more then 90% of your playerbase within 2 years.... well....

And before you say "but thats only steam users so your numbers are meaningless" my response is you think you account for more of the playerbase then you actually do. Go look at the google intrest charts, you can see that the trend is almost identical to the steamstat charts.