SPACE WHALES CONFIRMED!

[GRHayes]

Remember that we have multiple people working with Schine on StarMade. Some of them are simply 3D artists. There's not much the 3D artists can do about the AI bugs. Rest assured that we are working on bugs as well! However, our art guys have been working on the space whale for a while, and this was a good time to release a peek at it.

I can see where a 3D artist would be lacking stuff to do when it comes to starmade. I get the vast majority of the content is made out of the blocks.

Then again maybe I would have them making some more useful blocks such as a chair, or a captains chair which could be used in addition to the core. They could also make something like a 1x2 wedge, or how about railing. Or how about this one actual space pirates that come and not just shoot at you but try and board your ship or base. Aliens besides humans.

While yes it would be nice to see something alive in space. Whatever you make is going to require work on the AI for that as well. Besides looks is it going to serve a purpose besides looks will their be any reason we would need to hunt them will they present a danger... In short unless it really adds something of value other than looks currently I could think of a number of things that would be better than a whale.

Again I do appreciate the work going into trying to improve the game. Anyway just my 2 cents.

 

[wedtm]

I can see where a 3D artist would be lacking stuff to do when it comes to starmade. I get the vast majority of the content is made out of the blocks.

Then again maybe I would have them making some more useful blocks such as a chair, or a captains chair which could be used in addition to the core. They could also make something like a 1x2 wedge, or how about railing. Or how about this one actual space pirates that come and not just shoot at you but try and board your ship or base. Aliens besides humans.

While yes it would be nice to see something alive in space. Whatever you make is going to require work on the AI for that as well. Besides looks is it going to serve a purpose besides looks will their be any reason we would need to hunt them will they present a danger... In short unless it really adds something of value other than looks currently I could think of a number of things that would be better than a whale.

Again I do appreciate the work going into trying to improve the game. Anyway just my 2 cents.

Who's saying they're not? It takes a long time for a model to go through the entire process. If you guys are seeing it now, how long ago do you think we started working on it?

 

[SilverAgeFan]

Count me amongst the player base that is lukewarm on Space Whales, as a concept and as a way they could potentially define the game.

I really really hope for several things from fauna in game:

• A wide diversity of exotic lifeforms to encounter. These are not one of a dozen or two dozen species of fauna in game.
• These whales are extremely rare and not the only interstellar form of life in the galaxy. I'd HATE for these to become game defining beings, such as how Creepers are so unique yet ubiquitous in Minecraft that they are emblematic of the game.
• Playable xenomorphic species with unique morphologies. Mantids. Dralasites. Togruta. etc.
• A server management tab where we can literally check or un-check any species we do or do not want appearing in our universe and maybe even adjust rate of appearance. Making a Doctor Who inspired server? A few space whales would be welcome. A Star Trek inspired universe? Maybe not so much. etc.

Don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but this particular announcement and the art style presented is having the inverse effect on me than I think was desired by the devs. It makes me just a little less excited about the future of Starmade as it advances in development.

I hope this gut feeling is proven wrong though as I really enjoy the overall potential I've seen in the game thus far.

 

[godmars]

The art style presented is having the inverse effect on me than I think was desired by the devs. It makes me just a little less excited about the future of Starmade as it advances in development.

can you elaborate on this?

 

[Planr]

YAY SPACE WHALES ^_^

 

[Ithirahad]

Who's saying they're not? It takes a long time for a model to go through the entire process. If you guys are seeing it now, how long ago do you think we started working on it?

I think what we mean is, why this, now? If we want to talk about RP-related features, the game needs alien races to interact with, pirate NPCs with ships to board and crew to battle, and maybe some ship decorations, pilot seats and better multi-person crew mechanics, and so on to make our interiors less dry... Space whales and other planet/space fauna are cute and all, and they'll make for a great addition to spice the universe up a bit if they're not too common, but they don't do much of anything for gameplay and barely do anything for immersion. The new starter station, on the other hand, helps with both, in addition to setting a sort of standard for building quality - but that wasn't even made by the devs. I'd think space whales would be a thing to add later on along with things like Schema temples on planets; silly-but-awesome things to put in when all core features are done.

Why should Schema be working on space whale AI and combat mechanics (i.e. whale nose ramming), Zanaten be working on the space whale animation and models, and Kupu be working on the space whale/other fauna textures, when Schema could be working on a captain's chair system, crew AI and functions (And fixing those bugs like the one where crew members can't even stay aboard your ship), Zanaten on weapon models, interior pieces, and so on, and Kupu on, oh, I don't know, some more crew textures so not all crew members are clones of each other, as well as textures for things like the aforementioned interior pieces? You know, things that would, or at least might, immediately effect what someone regularly sees in their day-to-day interactions with the StarMade universe. Of course, ideally we'd be seeing things like the thrust revamp, faction mechanic extensions, and the like first, but apparently we've moved into some kind of "RP Season" (which is good too) so...

Of course, there's no rolling back time, and I'm sure that by now the devs are probably working on cooking up some other cool stuff we don't even know about yet... So there's nothing left to do but wait and see. Besides, even if space whales, desert ratlings, and other critters are badly-timed, they're still a great addition to the game and would have to get in sometime, and personally, I'm loving the art style and general concept of both creatures.

(This post is assuming that space whales and the fauna AI and model framework are taking up the majority of the devs' time. If this is not so, and Schema is mostly working on new faction systems, 3D-model block support, or something else like that while the art team finishes up the two new fauna demos, then this is completely invalid and you can just ignore it. But I somehow doubt that.)

 

[SilverAgeFan]

can you elaborate on this?

Sure.

The 3d concept art is very particular, specific, and far afield from the art direction currently present in the game's voxel world with simple avatars and criss crossed sprites for small rocks and decorative flora.

It's not that I dislike the creature as a standalone. But it has a very strong presence that breaks from the broad and more open ended simple lego like style currently in game. This current whale, with its relatively high polygon count (but lower than high end 3d cinematic games) feels like it belongs in a dreamy indie platformer or a mid- to high- production value collectable card game.

My opinion could change, especially if *all* the fauna that follow carry similar art direction. But for a voxel sandbox, this guy feels a bit overdeveloped currently.

 

[Ithirahad]

My opinion could change, especially if *all* the fauna that follow carry similar art direction. But for a voxel sandbox, this guy feels a bit overdeveloped currently.

They will. Look at the quadcrab, and the Desert Hoppy (Someone got a render of him, I forget who)
[DOUBLEPOST=1443485305,1443485100][/DOUBLEPOST]Besides. Believe me, this design style is better that another Minecraft where everything is made of boxes. Novelty aside, that looked dumb... It would look even more dumb in a game like this where we've got wedges, pentas, tetras, corners, and plenty of really cool-looking things designed to look like they aren't just flat blocks even if they are until we finally get 3d model support.

 

[Reilly Reese]

I think what we mean is, why this, now? If we want to talk about RP-related features, the game needs alien races to interact with, pirate NPCs with ships to board and crew to battle, and maybe some ship decorations, pilot seats and better multi-person crew mechanics, and so on to make our interiors less dry... Space whales and other planet/space fauna are cute and all, and they'll make for a great addition to spice the universe up a bit if they're not too common, but they don't do much of anything for gameplay and barely do anything for immersion. The new starter station, on the other hand, helps with both, in addition to setting a sort of standard for building quality - but that wasn't even made by the devs. I'd think space whales would be a thing to add later on along with things like Schema temples on planets; silly-but-awesome things to put in when all core features are done.

Nose ramming can also be applied to Bobby AI as a kamikaze setting finally making warhead torpedoes useful in a mobile battlefield.

 

[Ithirahad]

Nose ramming can also be applied to Bobby AI as a kamikaze setting finally making warhead torpedoes useful in a mobile battlefield.

That takes other systems. Creature AI and ship AI are probably two separate things anyway.

 

[Reilly Reese]

That takes other systems. Creature AI and ship AI are probably two separate things anyway.

I don't see how if such a ramming system was implemented it couldn't be attached to the Bobby's AI system.

 

[Sha3es]

... time to make a fleet of space whaling ships... for space wale oil harvesting.

 

[Bench]

I think what we mean is, why this, now?

Seems people have a tendency to forget the length of the development cycle in relation to when we show things. The start of the work on this particular fauna was during the same development period as the GUI update, some performance work, and the whole rails update. So all the teams were working on major projects, and getting a jump on this one was good timing for Saber in relation to that. People have assumed that because we've showcased it during TwitchCon that we must have been working on it recently or in anticipation for what we're moving into, when in reality it was merely a good time to showcase some cool new things for the game that people hadn't seen yet.

Space whales and other planet/space fauna are cute and all, and they'll make for a great addition to spice the universe up a bit if they're not too common, but they don't do much of anything for gameplay and barely do anything for immersion. The new starter station, on the other hand, helps with both, in addition to setting a sort of standard for building quality - but that wasn't even made by the devs.

We haven't actually touched on with the public how fauna integrates into our other plans for gameplay or just how many different types there will be, how they will act etc. Once we explain a lot of that it will probably make a lot more sense. I agree the new starter station is a great start for where we're taking stations and ships of NPC factions in StarMade. And the starter station actually was built by the devs; Saber, Criss, and myself have been working on it over the past few months with contributions from a couple others on the dev team.

If we want to talk about RP-related features, the game needs alien races to interact with, pirate NPCs with ships to board and crew to battle, and maybe some ship decorations, pilot seats and better multi-person crew mechanics, and so on to make our interiors less dry... I'd think space whales would be a thing to add later on along with things like Schema temples on planets; silly-but-awesome things to put in when all core features are done.

That assumes that fauna can't integrate with our RP plans. There's a lot of different aspects to RP that are all going on at once. We're aware of what the game needs and have been working to make sure all our plans fit together neatly so players get the most immersive experience possible.

Of course, ideally we'd be seeing things like the thrust revamp, faction mechanic extensions, and the like first, but apparently we've moved into some kind of "RP Season" (which is good too) so...

Factions are a part of the RP Season and thrust revamp is a performance / balance thing so that will be addressed parallel to our current direction of development.

Of course, there's no rolling back time, and I'm sure that by now the devs are probably working on cooking up some other cool stuff we don't even know about yet... So there's nothing left to do but wait and see. Besides, even if space whales, desert ratlings, and other critters are badly-timed, they're still a great addition to the game and would have to get in sometime, and personally, I'm loving the art style and general concept of both creatures.

Definitely cool stuff ahead.

(This post is assuming that space whales and the fauna AI and model framework are taking up the majority of the devs' time. If this is not so, and Schema is mostly working on new faction systems, 3D-model block support, or something else like that while the art team finishes up the two new fauna demos, then this is completely invalid and you can just ignore it. But I somehow doubt that.)

Schema's been primarily focused on performance and optimizing in the lead up to TwitchCon. Now that it's over we have big plans ahead. Thanks for everyone's keen interest in where we're taking the game, after all you all play the game and only want to see it become better. There's a tendency when a "random feature" like this gets announced that players either love it or hate it, but either way they get vocal and just get focused on purely the new feature, and forget to consider it in not only the context of the game as a whole, but the direction we're taking the game as well. We've said we're planning questing/missions, faction improvements, more things to motivate you to discover and explore; and yet for some reason sometimes people tend to think too small.

For example, fauna. Some are concerned about the space whale becoming like the creeper of StarMade. We want you to want to explore, and discover. Fauna is one of those ways. From the get-go we've always planned a rarity curve for fauna; and spawning being dependent on certain factors. Mannerisms of fauna, the way they act around ships, stations and players, and the scale of them. It's all things we've considered, and you may find the space whale might be one of those ones that you may not run into all that often if at all.

We've thought things through quite thoroughly. Not to say how many will make it into the game but we've drafted 40+ unique fauna in detail already. Space is big, there's a lot we can do, and there's a lot we're planning to do.

Also just saying, we're not a totally realistic game so all those nay-sayers out there talking about the whale's fins... it's a game.

If you really need some lore on how creatures like the space whale survive in space, I can easily write some but remember.... game ...

They've evolved to become phototrophs that are able to survive in the vacuum of space. Their fins and tail absorb the energy from light through illuminated points on both fins and tail, and they can move them to gain better exposure to light sources. This allows them to consume minerals they find while wandering through space, asteroids and the like, and be able to convert them into a form of nourishment. Stored energy can also be discharged through gills behind the space whale's eyes, allowing it to push itself forward, and using the fins they can direct this exhaust to control their direction.​

 

[godmars]

Factions are a part of the RP Season and thrust revamp is a performance / balance thing so that will be addressed parallel to our current direction of development.

This is kind of unrelated, but if this is "RP Season", are we going to be getting some..uh..lore stuff in the near future? Or is that basically something that'll be tandem with the new faction stuff.

 

[Bench]

This is kind of unrelated, but if this is "RP Season", are we going to be getting some..uh..lore stuff in the near future? Or is that basically something that'll be tandem with the new faction stuff.

SM Lore helped with the development of the starter station, and it is heavily influencing what we will be doing with the default NPC factions, questing, etc, however we're undecided what lore we'll just announce, and what we'll let you find out as you play the game.

 

[Commander Yozumi]

Be aware its hard to establish a Great lore base effectively in a sandbox game, especially When that lore has to Co-Exist with other Events in the same franchise, say... other games. Bethesda games are a good example. The gameplay = Fun, story... lacking.
I would prefer Starmade be a thing that has no lore and at that End goal, or any sort of main enemy. leave that to the person playing. let them decide their own Story. if you cant do that. join a faction.
And i think space whales are great.
Keep in mind: Devs are not working on one thing at a time
Space whales are not the end of the world
The game is still in alpha. its got a long way to go until beta, remember: Patience is a virtue.

 

[Criss]

This is kind of unrelated, but if this is "RP Season", are we going to be getting some..uh..lore stuff in the near future? Or is that basically something that'll be tandem with the new faction stuff.

We would like to seed the lore throughout gameplay. There will be a lot that the player and community as a whole can piece together. There of course will always be the option to ignore the lore and even change it for your server. If you want to alter the default factions for example I am sure that will be possible.

 

[Bench]

Be aware its hard to establish a Great lore base effectively in a sandbox game, especially When that lore has to Co-Exist with other Events in the same franchise, say... other games. Bethesda games are a good example. The gameplay = Fun, story... lacking.
I would prefer Starmade be a thing that has no lore and at that End goal, or any sort of main enemy. leave that to the person playing. let them decide their own Story. if you cant do that. join a faction.

Don't worry, we're well aware of tightrope we're walking between too much lore and not enough, but we definitely see the benefits it can bring to the game and so we're going to walk the tightrope, slowly but with a vision towards where we can see it taking us. There's so many different factors to take in and as you said, it's tough to do well in a sandbox game.

 

[RabidBat]

Yeah I am cool with freaky critters on planets, but animals in space, especially a whale? yeah no thanks. Much rather have working pirate AI, crew AI, trade AI any AI, and gravity etc, maybe some actual gameplay elements myself I have to admit. Sorry just think if this is legit it is goofy as **** and as much a waste a time as changing ore names and block skins because purple. There is honestly many things in this game that should be a priority imho, stupid whales aint one.

 

[Criss]

Yeah I am cool with freaky critters on planets, but animals in space, especially a whale? yeah no thanks. Much rather have working pirate AI, crew AI, trade AI any AI, and gravity etc, maybe some actual gameplay elements myself I have to admit. Sorry just think if this is legit it is goofy as **** and as much a waste a time as changing ore names and block skins because purple. There is honestly many things in this game that should be a priority imho, stupid whales aint one.

I advise you read the lengthy response Bench laid out above. Various creatures will be put into the game. Space creatures/monsters are some of them. Space is the primary setting of the game and as such, needs to be filled with things to discover. Planets are not the primary setting of the game, they reside in it. While planetary and astronaut gameplay will find their place, a lot of those mechanics come down to developers, not the 3d or 2d artists, who are free to pursue other areas of gameplay that need their attention.

Find me a single thread on these forums concerning creatures where space whales did not get mentioned. A good chunk of the community wants them. They are awesome and dangerous and who are we to deny the players something they clearly have asked for?