Ship interiors (Feeling Skylord Luke's pain)

[VendettaDFA]

I thoroughly enjoy watching ship reviews from Luke and Saber for the jaw-dropping beauty and to find some inspiration for my own ships. A recent top 5 from Luke kind of brought to the surface an issue within this Starmade universe. He made mention of the lack of creativity of ship interiors lately. I see his point and also have a feeling as to why this is.

Everyone loves to play on servers that have something different for a challenge and most of us want to play on the more populated servers as well. A large chunk of these servers use custom pirates in custom ships with the challenge being honestly one dimensional -- make em bigger threats. You, as a new player , go into one of these servers and very quickly discover defending yourself against npc pirates , real players aside, may require a ship with 2 million shields. This forces the new player to ramp up quickly and not worry about "non-essential" things like having actual rooms in his ship beyond a core room. It doesn't enhance his ability to survive. So he builds system ships not realistic ships.

That's the issue. There is no benefit from realistic interiors. It actually penalizes by adding size to the ship. The new players experiencing Starmade are rarely playing a vanilla version once they get out of single player and they experience a scenario similar to what I mentioned. They don't build rooms on their early ships and when they start working on larger ships they may not even know where to begin on interior design.

I don't have a solution to this, but it does feel like an issue that I hope can be resolved in a manner to give benefit to ships that are built as well on the interior as the exterior.

 

[FullMetalFox]

Well whats the other side of the coin?
With vanilla type NPC Pirates, any kind of ship beyond like 400 mass is nearly overkill against those, so Pirate hunting quickly gets boring, and there is never a real reason to build a bigger stronger ship except for the sake of building, never something that encourages you to figure out smart ship systems, the only thing that is left there that could encourage that is pvp.
So with that, people focus on the none essential stuff, their ships might become beautiful in the end, but their systems are just lame.
Skylord Luke is a good example of this (Luke, if you read this, i hope you dont take it as an insult), i would nearly call it "Master Builder Syndrome", while he builds beautiful ships, his ships are just nearly useles in actuall combat due to unrefined system setups.

In the end it also depends on what people actually want to build, im slow at building, i want to perfect everything, so i delet and rebuild a lot, but i would say i can make at least kinda pretty stuff, and i even want at least minimal interior that makes sense, but im an optimization nut, i spent hours optimizing systems and figuring out near perfect ratios, and should interior be in the way of that ill change or even remove it without the blink of an eye. Aka, thats what i want, interior is great, exteriour design is very important, but my ships performance is the most important thing to me.

The only solution i can think of, that would remove the issue of players either being exposed to unchallenging or overchallenging NPC enemies, is to create a wider variety of enemies and distribute this variety logically over the galaxies, be it a simple thing as easy enemies in the center, and more challenging enemies the further you get to the edge of a galaxy, or even different levels of "hotspots" randomly distributed in the galaxy that increase the difficulty of NPC enemies in the surrounding systems.

In short, leave people the option to start small and slowly, get familia with the basics of the game and creative building, but also offer them the possibility to take on much more challenging opponents that require them to build bigger ships and learn the properties of well designed systems.

 

[Groovrider]

Give interiors a use beyond a visual wank and players will build them.

 

[NuclearFun]

honestly, i am a little bit angry after watching the mentioned review...

 

[NeonSturm]

and there is never a real reason to build a bigger stronger ship except for the sake of building, never something that encourages you to figure out smart ship systems, the only thing that is left there that could encourage that is pvp.

If players would visit each other's ships more often without having to

1. either Download them, add to blueprints, spawn in, delete if not happy with them.
2. or Pay credits to preview their interior or ship performance
3. and maybe give them opportunity to discover+try new stuff easily,

we could encourage each other much more.

Skylord Luke is a good example of this (Luke, if you read this, i hope you dont take it as an insult), i would nearly call it "Master Builder Syndrome", while he builds beautiful ships, his ships are just nearly useles in actuall combat due to unrefined system setups.

Peoples need an ingame-listing of what they could build into ships.

We need to share these listings (hierarchical, tagged entries with show/hide by tag) just like blueprints or templates.

 

[FullMetalFox]

If players would visit each other's ships more often without having to

1. either Download them, add to blueprints, spawn in, delete if not happy with them.
2. or Pay credits to preview their interior or ship performance
3. and maybe give them opportunity to discover+try new stuff easily,

we could encourage each other much more.

Well this is something that happens quiet often on servers, i for example offer help, tours and explanations to anyone in my faction, and if someone asks nicely even to people who are not in my faction.

But this also depends on the players themselfs, i for example like to rather discover stuff on my own by taking everything apart and trying out every idea i have, so the opportunity to discover is there, people just need to do it.

Peoples need an ingame-listing of what they could build into ships.

We need to share these listings (hierarchical, tagged entries with show/hide by tag) just like blueprints or templates.

There kinda is a limited ingame-listing already in the game, the shops listing everything+the mostly self explaining systems.
Everything else, well a good tutorial or manual explaining the rest, like combinations and system bonuses, would help new players big times, i for example have a demo ship in my faction showcasing all weapon combinations and such, or let the players discover it on their own.

If you mean actual finished systems, or be it just system ratios, i would say no, in my opinion that is a skill every player should learn for themselfs, as with building something pretty, building something efficient is a skill on its own.

If youre talking about cosmetic interiour, eh why not, no harm in that.

 

[NeonSturm]

There kinda is a limited ingame-listing already in the game,
[...]
If youre talking about cosmetic interiour, eh why not, no harm in that.

Not for what I meant.
Yes I meant RP

RP-Room RP-Stuff listing:

• Plasma-fire extinguishers
• Com-Station
• Emergency-Air-Lock (for bigger rooms and longer tunnels...)
  
• ...

RP-rooms listing:

• Medical
• Toilets, "Shine chamber" :D
• ...

There are 100+ things you can build and most peoples are hardly able to remember 95%.

If we have at least basic listings peoples would spend time to optimize RP experience.

 

[IAbsoluteZeroI]

honestly, i am a little bit angry after watching the mentioned review...

Yeah, that wasn't the most diplomatic way of getting his point across... Never mind that it was also completely undeserved.

 

[CyberTao]

We need to share these listings (hierarchical, tagged entries with show/hide by tag) just like blueprints or templates.

We have room lists, at least 2 of them on the forums. Here and Here. As for having example templates, you could try that, but I don't think 2 people would have the same interior interior design style, unless they both like the same kinda thing (stock Terran for example).

Otherwise, I throw most of my support behind FullMetalFox. People seem to keep wanting to think that buffing interiors will fix a problem, but I've never really understood the problem. If you came from a game like X3 or EvE, you don't get to see the interior, it's all exterior and stats, so whats wrong with building a ship as it's intended to be flown? Wasting time making an interior that you will never even look at seems kinda pointless.

As for actually 'buffing' interiors (I saw that mentioned somewhere here), there is no real need to. Interiors cost 2 things; Hull:Systems ratio and Turn Rate (dimensions), the Thrust revamp would fix the Turn rate, and HP/Armour revamp would fix the Hull:Systems. Interiors actually give a bonus in terms of missile breaks (damage wasted over empty space). It all comes down to whether people want to, as it should in a Sandbox.

I'm also half-interested in the offending video, if someone would be so kind as to link it. I need my daily kekkles.

 

[FullMetalFox]

I'm also half-interested in the offending video, if someone would be so kind as to link it. I need my daily kekkles.

1:58

 

[CyberTao]

1:58

 

[FullMetalFox]

Otherwise, I throw most of my support behind FullMetalFox. People seem to keep wanting to think that buffing interiors will fix a problem, but I've never really understood the problem. If you came from a game like X3 or EvE, you don't get to see the interior, it's all exterior and stats, so whats wrong with building a ship as it's intended to be flown? Wasting time making an interior that you will never even look at seems kinda pointless.

Thats pretty much the reason i go with minimal interiour, just because i got some windows in my designs, so in the end its for external look yet again. In the end the only interiour ill regulary see from inside is the way from the airlock to the core. But then again, im not one of those major RP player, i want my ships too look good and realistic, that said its realistic for a pure military ship to only have the minimum requiered crew space and stuff, i want them as efficient as possible at what they do while still looking good, i dont want to do "this is captain blah of blah of the blah federation blah blah" RP play, thats just to nerdy for me

So more interiour than requiered, nah.

 

[NeonSturm]

We have room lists, at least 2 of them on the forums. Here and Here. As for having example templates, you could try that, but I don't think 2 people would have the same interior interior design style, unless they both like the same kinda thing (stock Terran for example).

Only the OP can update it.
A few parts will scatter over the whole thread if the OP loses interest, goes offline or misses some part.

Also if I search for ship interior, I get a dozen spamy threads also.

Perhaps I should have made it more clear saying I want more organized "Small Community Contents" with such lists.​

But no matter what lists we have online - having that ingame would be more comfortable.

If you came from a game like X3 or EvE, you don't get to see the interior

SM is more than that.
If MineCraft would have moving objects and wouldn't be a MicroSoft-Drug, I would probably play there.

 

[CyberTao]

SM is more than that.

More than that, but also less than that. SM is a sandbox, people are allowed to play pretend if they want. People who are more interested in the battles or moving of fleets and doesnt care for the interior shouldn't be pressured into building an interior to pacify people who do. Depends on the playstyle, but you'd probably have an easier time removing doom cubes than you would enforcing interiors.

 

[VendettaDFA]

At least I see by the reaction I am not the only one. Fully understand the military perspective stance and trust me my ships are built to handle the meta of the servers I play on. The previously mentioned 2mill shield pirate ones.

Hopefully we can still find a way to give interior space some sort of relevance while not forcing anyone to make use of it. Its just a choice , like whether your weapon system uses pulse or beam.

 

[FullMetalFox]

Its just a choice , like whether your weapon system uses pulse or beam.

I hope that "pulse or beam" was sarcasm :D
As pulse or beam is like literally the difference between terribly (pulse) and awesome (beam) on weapons.

 

[VendettaDFA]

I hope that "pulse or beam" was sarcasm :D
As pulse or beam is like literally the difference between terribly (pulse) and awesome (beam) on weapons.

Not really but you made a choice and if you plan a nice pulse to the face its quite effective

 

[FullMetalFox]

if you plan a nice pulse to the face its quite effective

I could maybe accept that, if whatever gets that pulse in its face is something tiny. Other than that, with 0.5 DPS and that abysmal range, anything else propably blasted you into last year with its weapons while you try to get in range

 

[Dragleones]

People shouldn't be forced to build interior. It would be more than enough to reduce the downsides.

Just look at the crafting costs:

• Decorative Screens (any color): 10 HP / 0% Armor
  -requires 10 Crystal Composite
  
  
• Decorative Panel: 15 HP / 0% Armor
  -requires 10 Alloyed Metal Mesh
  
• Hull (any color): 75 HP / 0% Armor
  -requires 1 Alloyed Metal Mesh and 1 Crystal Composite

And these are just the decorative blocks with limited use when building interior due to the lack of variation.
What about all those flashy crystals and circuits? These blocks are much more expensive yet they just as much HP as Hull or even less...

Just give all those blocks with no use HP and armor equal to their costs and with the upcoming HP-update having interior isn't that bad anymore.

The actual reason that prevents me from building interior anywhere other than my building world is that i just don't want to waste so many ressources just for some flashy looks.

 

[Viridis00]

Way I see it as an aesthetic builder, you can't have it both ways. Look at military vehicles in real life for example, they're crowded as hell with little in the way of interior (tanks and submarines especially) because it is non-essential.

The best you can do is compromise and make spartan-interiors which are as small as possible, and be happy that the HP system is supposedly going to give ships with interior the armor advantage over ships with just pure system interiors (hopefully it is a somewhat large one).