Regarding the blueprint revamp...

[Keptick]

I want to laugh but some part of me says it's wrong..

But yeah, the veterans on the servers do have a massive jumpstart. That puts you in the ideal position to enlist newbies and offer them some nice, proven, ship designs and your knowledge.

which is exactly what the CR has been doing ^_^ (well, not enlisting but just generally helping out new factions and giving them miners or stuff like that)

 

[Criss]

I just realized guys, that even if you want to buy the rest of the blueprint with lots of credits, you are effectively spawning in blocks out of nowhere just to finish a ship. Personally I am against that. If the game gets complex enough to support an actual trading guild that forwards its own economy, then I am against completing ships with staggering credit costs.

I just checked out the system now. If shipyards are happening, and we no longer can spawn ships at any location, then I think we all need to realize that this game is changing from what we are used to. Gameplay elements are being introduced to give it structure, lore and atmosphere. A universe of NPC's that attack, trade, give missions and live will soon be coming. We need to realize this isn't a full on creative mode sandbox anymore and that the changes introduced are here because this is what the game needs in order to be a real game. A challenge. Difficult? Yes, but let's face it. How fast were we all experts in Minecraft? I like a challenge. Things like capital ships will be seen few and far between. They could be an oddity, something truly awe inspiring that could lead to some of the most interesting gameplay turnouts that we have seen.

But you guys want to buy the rest of it with credits. Effectively reducing the challenge to gathering lots of money instead of playing the game itself to acquire those resources. All the changes that the devs have made would be reduced in value, and in turn the value of the game itself goes with it. I thought this was a good idea. Sorry guys.

 

[Mered4]

I just realized guys, that even if you want to buy the rest of the blueprint with lots of credits, you are effectively spawning in blocks out of nowhere just to finish a ship. Personally I am against that. If the game gets complex enough to support an actual trading guild that forwards its own economy, then I am against completing ships with staggering credit costs.

Blocks out of no-where? Where do you think my credits came from?!

I sold blocks to get them. I gave different blocks for other blocks. This is why we have money.

 

[Criss]

Blocks out of no-where? Where do you think my credits came from?!

I sold blocks to get them. I gave different blocks for other blocks. This is why we have money.

Then just buy it from a shop. If the shop does not have the blocks, then why should you be able to partially build a ship with large amounts of credits. If I can buy from a shop at a cheaper price then people will do that, but using credits to fill in the missing bits of a ship creates those blocks out of nowhere, AND is more expensive. It is a flaw and could ruin an economy if that is what we want.

 

[MossyStone48]

Buy the parts at a player's shop! Having a market place would be boss. Someone leaves a shop NPC at a booth they rent from that station's owner and bada-boingo you have a lot of people in one place to buy from.

 

[Mered4]

Then just buy it from a shop. If the shop does not have the blocks, then why should you be able to partially build a ship with large amounts of credits. If I can buy from a shop at a cheaper price then people will do that, but using credits to fill in the missing bits of a ship creates those blocks out of nowhere, AND is more expensive. It is a flaw and could ruin an economy if that is what we want.

Again, I got the credits from removing blocks from the economy. I am using the credits to add more blocks to the economy, proportional to what I took out. Because shops are limited, I cannot hope to find everything I need at one shop. Thus, credits are used as a way to amass wealth. The whole *cheaper to buy it as a ship* is a completely different problem with a different unpopular solution

 

[Criss]

But you didn't remove the blocks from the economy. You sold them to a shop, which stocks them until someone else buys them... Keep in mind we will also be limited in what we will be able to carry. There could be changes to shop stock values as well. But the fact of the matter is that you do not remove blocks from the economy just because you sold them.

 

[Viridis00]

I thought this was a good idea. Sorry guys.

I agree with you completely. But this is going to be really weird in the interim until we get shipyards, but the change is necessary. I say we just roll with it for now. It will be worth it if we get to see ships constructed block by block in a shipyard and this is an indirect buff to smaller craft. Which I am a fan of.

 

[DivineEvil]

Again, I got the credits from removing blocks from the economy. I am using the credits to add more blocks to the economy, proportional to what I took out.

Exactly what Vanhelzing said. The point is, you don't removing something from the "economy", you remove it from the simulation. Asteroids and planets consist natural raw resources. Shops provide a bare minimum of what you might need to finish up a ship or an outpost. Pirates can be a source of end-stage blocks, but you have to fight them, potentially losing parts of your ship. When ships or station are damaged or destroyed, the part of block they are made of are removed from the simulation.

By buying a ship or part of a ship, not only you removing credits (which as I stated before, relatively scarce naturally), but you also creating end-stage blocks out of thin air in large amounts. And this is not how Schema wants his idea of Starmade to work.

Because shops are limited, I cannot hope to find everything I need at one shop. Thus, credits are used as a way to amass wealth. The whole *cheaper to buy it as a ship* is a completely different problem with a different unpopular solution

Then find a player who would produce everything you lack. If you see the niche of items that nobody produces, you can fill up that niche and get credits to further satisfy your own needs. Money is not a goal, it's a tool to achieve a goal.

 

[Mered4]

Money is not a goal, it's a tool to achieve a goal.

Yes, but it's the tool you use to amass wealth by buying in actual well-crafted ships from singleplayer.

Then find a player who would produce everything you lack. If you see the niche of items that nobody produces, you can fill up that niche and get credits to further satisfy your own needs. Money is not a goal, it's a tool to achieve a goal.

This niche stuff only lasts for so long before EVERYONE has EVERYTHING. Like right now, my faction members are all TRILLIONAIRES in terms of amassed materials and we have enough materials to make at least 10000 of every block in the game.

 

[CynicalCatalyst]

Reading through a lot of this I have to say the idea is innovative. However, there are some issues with it. Say you have played this game for 2 years, seeing every change and liking it more and more. Most of your time is spent salvaging and building your ship of mass destruction. Let's say to finish the ship you need 2 mil blocks total. Even with advanced building that's a lot of blocks to place, but you're up to the task. Most of your time is spent salvaging, but there are issues with that even. First off the server is split 50-50 with 3 big factions ganging up on the small factions and wiping them off the server because one guy mentioned they hate space whales. Second, those larger factions have most of the better territory with multiple planets located at the galactic core and have the people to salvage it. Third you have to hide in the middle of buttfuck nowhere to keep those larger factions from attacking you because you blinked funny. Fourth and finally there are hardly any shops becasue of the "new galactic update" that only makes one shop available every 10 systems. Note: I said systems and not sectors. Oh, and those bigger factions also own all the territories with shops in them. That's with the previous system ALONE because these factions have the credits and the blocks to build their 15 mil block fuckeverything ships.

Now let's go ahead and add the newer system. You are now required to get the blocks necessary to build your titan so you can adequately defend yourself. There's 6 people in your faction mining whatever they can for HOURS just to get the materials to make the blocks. After the month is over you get the blocks necessary to build your ships, but you still need to build the damn thing which takes upwards of 3 months to build, perfect systems, and add detail to. Meanwhile every other small faction is doing the same, meaning you cannot form an alliance with them and ask for things they cannot offer. Trading with the large factions (50 people in total, 3 faction alliance) will only allow them to grow bigger and have a firmer grip on all of the people in the server. Plus they have so many people they can just spawn in whatever ship they want, credits or no credits, while you still have to build yours from scratch. On top of that you have to salvage for more materials just to build another one. There's another month while the large factions are now at something like 6 capitals, while you only have 1. Nobody else has the means to defend themselves because of their reliance on blocks they don't have, even if they all form an alliance with one another. So then what? They can't craft anything if their salvagers are constantly being bombarded by these larger factions unless they move 4 galaxies away. They are powerful regardless, but buying ships with credits can save your ass in a pinch before you get wiped off the map completely because it takes less time. Besides, if you spent 3 months perfecting it why should you spend another to gather the resources for the blocks to then rebuild it?

You people want more player trading. You want new mechanics for making ships. You want it to take more time. However, you fail to realize the repercussions of when things take too much time because arrogant munchkins own the server. You fail to realize the effects it has on the little people, 2 year vets or not. All it does is help the larger factions grip us like a corporation would by selling us what we need and then destroying it before our eyes.

 

[Malacodor]

If you see the niche of items that nobody produces, you can fill up that niche and get credits to further satisfy your own needs. Money is not a goal, it's a tool to achieve a goal.

Setting up a shop close to a shipyard and selling overpriced, cheaply crafted decorative stuff could be a good way to earn credits, especially for newer players.

Like right now, my faction members are all TRILLIONAIRES in terms of amassed materials and we have enough materials to make at least 10000 of every block in the game.

You clearly don't fight enough. :p

 

[Keptick]

Reading through a lot of this I have to say the idea is innovative. However, there are some issues with it. Say you have played this game for 2 years, seeing every change and liking it more and more. Most of your time is spent salvaging and building your ship of mass destruction. Let's say to finish the ship you need 2 mil blocks total. Even with advanced building that's a lot of blocks to place, but you're up to the task. Most of your time is spent salvaging, but there are issues with that even. First off the server is split 50-50 with 3 big factions ganging up on the small factions and wiping them off the server because one guy mentioned they hate space whales. Second, those larger factions have most of the better territory with multiple planets located at the galactic core and have the people to salvage it. Third you have to hide in the middle of buttfuck nowhere to keep those larger factions from attacking you because you blinked funny. Fourth and finally there are hardly any shops becasue of the "new galactic update" that only makes one shop available every 10 systems. Note: I said systems and not sectors. Oh, and those bigger factions also own all the territories with shops in them. That's with the previous system ALONE because these factions have the credits and the blocks to build their 15 mil block fuckeverything ships.

Now let's go ahead and add the newer system. You are now required to get the blocks necessary to build your titan so you can adequately defend yourself. There's 6 people in your faction mining whatever they can for HOURS just to get the materials to make the blocks. After the month is over you get the blocks necessary to build your ships, but you still need to build the damn thing which takes upwards of 3 months to build, perfect systems, and add detail to. Meanwhile every other small faction is doing the same, meaning you cannot form an alliance with them and ask for things they cannot offer. Trading with the large factions (50 people in total, 3 faction alliance) will only allow them to grow bigger and have a firmer grip on all of the people in the server. Plus they have so many people they can just spawn in whatever ship they want, credits or no credits, while you still have to build yours from scratch. On top of that you have to salvage for more materials just to build another one. There's another month while the large factions are now at something like 6 capitals, while you only have 1. Nobody else has the means to defend themselves because of their reliance on blocks they don't have, even if they all form an alliance with one another. So then what? They can't craft anything if their salvagers are constantly being bombarded by these larger factions unless they move 4 galaxies away. They are powerful regardless, but buying ships with credits can save your ass in a pinch before you get wiped off the map completely because it takes less time. Besides, if you spent 3 months perfecting it why should you spend another to gather the resources for the blocks to then rebuild it?

You people want more player trading. You want new mechanics for making ships. You want it to take more time. However, you fail to realize the repercussions of when things take too much time because arrogant munchkins own the server. You fail to realize the effects it has on the little people, 2 year vets or not. All it does is help the larger factions grip us like a corporation would by selling us what we need and then destroying it before our eyes.

Give me names, I will pay them a visit, devour their ships and give you the materials along with the sweet sweet tears harvested. Deal?

 

[Mered4]

Setting up a shop close to a shipyard and selling overpriced, cheaply crafted decorative stuff could be a good way to earn credits, especially for newer players.


You clearly don't fight enough. :p

We are at war with the largest faction on the server. I fight every time I get on.

 

[Fluffyzerg]

Build with blocks is fine, however!! If they want to do so, they need to drastically increase mining yield and decrease the cost of resources for those advanced factory items.

I've strip-mined an entire planet and brought back ore in the 20-40k range each of some major ones, plunked it all in my factories an produced from an hour 1/2 worth of mining (I use a strong combat miner but not a massive planet eater cause lagging everyone sucks and is rude) say maybe.. 1500 missle tubes, 900 shield rechargers an capacitors, 900 ion effect blocks... etc. you see where im getting. Why should an ENTIRE planet worth of resources produce a laughable amount of the most important blocks when your going to need about 150k each minimum of cannons and missle tubes to build a competative weapons system and something like 500k shield blocks *at least* to build a pvp competative shield system for the server your on? Its those advanced-tier systems that are SO IMPORTANT yet so expensive that are the killers to me.

 

[CynicalCatalyst]

Another point that I didn't have time to add is the fact that this system also forces dependence on other people, forcing them to work together in order to accomplish something great. It forces the smaller factions to either collaborate or rely on the larger factions to support and supply them. Such a system revokes the independence that some factions wish to have while also having a stable footing on the server they play on. It revokes ownership of such factions and the pride that goes along with it. It forces us all to become friends just to get a decent ship. What if the faction only has 6 people and wishes to be independent? How will they be able to defend themselves from 50+ people for mentioning that they hate cats? How will they be able to support themselves with enough resources to support larger ships and more base defenses? Why do they have to rely on others for such things? Of course recruiting new people can be considered an option, granted you are able to recruit people before the larger factions do just because they have more resources. Is this fair? Is it just if those very people attack whomever they wish at the bat of an eyelid? Is it fair that smaller factions are expected to do more and work harder in order to keep up? What if that smaller faction used to have 20 people but due to a map wipe loses all of its people while these other factions still retain their 50+ members because of an outside-of-server society? Does that mean smaller factions need to be more organized? How can some of us expect to do such a thing when we have lives outside of this game too? How can one be prideful of what they accomplish when it scales so small to what these larger factions have? How can anyone combat them?

This, along with my other point, is why in servers, where war and acting independent is a means of survival, this system will crash and burn, losing the very people who helped make this game more popular, helping it by reporting bugs and helping it grow.

 

[Malacodor]

Wall of text

Big factions will be superior to small factions no matter how ships are created. If I were in a small faction and were constantly harassed by much bigger factions I'd move to a more civilized server where people prefer fighting more equal opponents.

 

[Mered4]

Big factions will be superior to small factions no matter how ships are created. If I were in a small faction and were constantly harassed by much bigger factions I'd move to a more civilized server where people prefer fighting more equal opponents.

Heh. Good luck. Even Mfleet has a bunch of folks who enjoy bullying the less fortunate on the server.

 

[DivineEvil]

First off the server is split 50-50 with 3 big factions ganging up on the small factions and wiping them off the server because one guy mentioned they hate space whales.

Our personal experiences with a specific server plays no role in development of the game as a whole.

Second, those larger factions have most of the better territory with multiple planets located at the galactic core and have the people to salvage it.

Territory is currently is almost identical in value. Planets can be found anywhere. Galactic cores has no special meaning aside from pathetic names.

Third you have to hide in the middle of buttfuck nowhere to keep those larger factions from attacking you because you blinked funny.

I don't see such thing happening. In most cases large factions prefer to meddle with another large factions, whereabouts of random small factions is no interest for them.

Fourth and finally there are hardly any shops becasue of the "new galactic update" that only makes one shop available every 10 systems.

There's about 4 to 6 shops in every given system, void or not. You just have to look for them. Your unwilling to use conventional engines to travel is not developer's concern. Mining asteroids and visiting stations/planets without jump drives makes finding shops easy.

You are now required to get the blocks necessary to build your titan so you can adequately defend yourself.

I am? Maybe I'm just not the one, who should meddle with larger factions on my own accord?

Meanwhile every other small faction is doing the same, meaning you cannot form an alliance with them and ask for things they cannot offer.

Why?

Plus they have so many people they can just spawn in whatever ship they want, credits or no credits, while you still have to build yours from scratch. On top of that you have to salvage for more materials just to build another one.

That depends on the activity rate of those players. What you see in Tab over time means much more, than what you see in Faction hub. And no, larger factions has same difficulties with blocks now, since their domination were provided with nothing but longer time saving on credits. They had no reason to save on blocks. It's possible they're building their first serious factory this very moment. All they might rely on now is ships that they already have.

Nobody else has the means to defend themselves because of their reliance on blocks they don't have, even if they all form an alliance with one another. So then what? They can't craft anything if their salvagers are constantly being bombarded by these larger factions unless they move 4 galaxies away. They are powerful regardless, but buying ships with credits can save your ass in a pinch before you get wiped off the map completely because it takes less time. Besides, if you spent 3 months perfecting it why should you spend another to gather the resources for the blocks to then rebuild it?

I don't know what draugs you've used to see a nightmare like that, but I don't see that happening. Whether someone has blocks now or not depends on their personal understanding of how the game meant to be. Considering the general feedback, it's not that great of a number. Since billions of credits has no material power in a game now, the situation is quite opposite. Larger faction now has no ability to instantly spawn ships upon ships without having millions of blocks stored beforehand. Nobody ever did this.

You people want more player trading. You want new mechanics for making ships. You want it to take more time. However, you fail to realize the repercussions of when things take too much time because arrogant munchkins own the server. You fail to realize the effects it has on the little people, 2 year vets or not. All it does is help the larger factions grip us like a corporation would by selling us what we need and then destroying it before our eyes.

We all always were even in out ability to store blocks all this time. Now, when they has a value far beyond design freedom, it is up to players to decide whether they want to stay alone and fend for themselves, or to unite for shared goals. Daily voting for free credits is no longer enough.

 

[CynicalCatalyst]

That's not the point. I've been on this server for 2 years since August 2012, May 2013 if you want to count how active I was. I shouldn't have to suddenly jump ship just because the leaders of some out-of-server organization wants to harass others over one line of words. It didn't used to be like this either, so what if the same happens on the other server I join? I'm not going to be one of those soft people who asks for everything to be nerfed to suit my needs either, after all I still need a challenge, but this is too challenging and does not help the already out-of-balance power struggle that is occurring where I am and can occur on any other server in existence if given enough time.

Plus large factions are not always better when it comes to making ships. A small faction, given the opportunity and the resources, can spend more time on quality and individual characteristics of ships. I've proven that before with a design I made called the Nightmare.