Reason for having an interior

[rece ktore leczo]

I was thinking about this for some time, but i'm pretty sure there could be more reasons for the interiors to exist, but i simply couldn't think about them.


So far using ship's space in other ways than placing more blocks (except hull and decorative ones) is a waste of this space. Hopefully the problem with hulls will be resolved with new HP mechanics, but still we would be left with redundant interiors of ships.

So the point of course is to make interiors useful! And the problem is: how? It's not that we are going to get more shields by not placing them or more dps with less weapon blocks.

But what if we actually did get better stats if we had interior?


Basically the idea is that NPC crew on bigger ships would useful. Not necessary, but handy and would result in boosting (more like not-nerfing) some stats of the ship.
But to have NPC crew, players would need to build an interior for them.

Of course how much presence of the crew would have an impact on ships stats and many other things would be customizable
And i'm using the word "station" as the place where one crew member would work (on a ship) not a space stations. Sorry if it will cause any misunderstandings.


Basic idea:

• once the turret's/ship's stats are greater than certain threshold, additional blocks have reduced stats
• this thresholds could be raised by placing station for NPCs
• each crewman needs 1 station to work

Extended idea:

• threshold are specific to each ship system and so are stations
• crewman need a place to sleep - 1 bed for each NPC
• crewman need other assigned rooms: mess, etc.
• ship's systems useful for astronauts: medic bay, engineering room, armory, etc.
  • medic bay, to be actually useful, would need a change in dying mechanics - once critically injured there should be a possibility that we would get, with or without our crews help, to the medic bay, where we would get healed
    so that would make a reason for space ambulances to exist
• with some AI coding magic we could see our crew hanging around the ship, in the mess, talking in corridors, sleeping, etc. and once there is an order "everyone to your battle stations" the crew would be running around to get to their stations
  (i don't think it would be hard to implement with basic commands like "go there", "run", "execute certain animation")

If interested, please read my vision of this idea, with detailed explanation how, in my opinion, it should work


Drawbacks of this idea:

• current ships would get pretty nerfed but not to useless state
• yep, that's all i can think of

Pros:

• entertainment from having dozens of crewmen living on your ship, doing their daily stuff and fighting for you
• more specialized ships (transporting soldiers, ambulances)
• building an interior wouldn't cause such disadvantage, and not building one would be still an option
• with nerfing the stats as the ship's size grows, building small 1-manned ships would be a normal situation, but capital ships, to use their full potential would need many crew.
• custom thresholds - some servers could use huge numbers, so the crew wouldn't be needed at all and other servers could use levels they like

So yeah, this is my suggestion, what i generally would like to see in game.

And here is how i imagine this system to work with more detailed description:

Spoiler: My vision of expanded version of this system

1) Needed mechanics:

• decorative blocks with the ability of making them usable (with some animations)
  • they don't have to be pre-made blocks, i'd love to have the ability of creating custom decorative blocks as it's suggested here
  • once decorative block is placed, it would be possible to assign it as a usable block
  • three main types of usable blocks with animations: beds, chairs, stations
    • beds would be necessary to assign NPC as a crew to specific ship; each NPC would use 1 bed, we could have only as many crew-members as many beds there are on ship
    • if we assign crew to the turret, the turret don't need to have a bed, but the mother-ship does need
  • connecting systems to specific stations could be done by connecting one block of specific system to, already made usable, decorative block, i.e. connecting thruster block to decorative block make the second one a station for thrust system
    
• formula for calculating the need of crew and mechanics for nerfing/buffing the stats
  • customizable server-wide thresholds of stats, which when exceeded, lower the influence of the rest of the systems blocks
    
  • each ship's system calculated separately
    • it would be possible to connect usable station block to the ship's core, it would cause a higher thresholds for each stat on the ship, what could be useful only for smaller ships, because dividing stations for each system would give better results
    • once specific stat of ship reach some level, additional blocks add less and less then they normally would
    • to reach higher levels of values without this drawback, ships would need to have manned stations (unmanned don't count)
  • this also applies to turrets
    • turrets wouldn't have the need to be manned, but only small ones wouldn't have any drawbacks in stats
      bigger AI operated turrets would still be operational but with i.e. 50% efficiency
    • bigger turrets could have 1-2 crew with stations connected to the core
    • the best output for massive turrets with as few stations could be achieved by dividing crew to different systems
    • so far going into the turret's core from the interior of the ship (without using arrows while flying a ship) is impossible, so it would be great to have system which i suggested here before about building turrets and docking modules which would be a part of the ship (to a certain point)
  • to have efficient drones, it would rather be small or have an NPC on it (so i guess it wouldn't be a drone anymore)
  • it can also be used for stations for things like energy generation or factory efficiency
    
• basic AI actions like gathering in groups to talk to each other or going to mess to sit down and eat and maybe even expanded system of giving orders to the whole ship's crew like "escape!" or "defend the ship from invaders!"
  (not necessary but it would greatly add the immersion of living ship)
  
  
• healing, and more mechanics for astronaut mode (more guns, repair beams, etc.)
  (also not necessary but helpful)
  
  

On the side-note: crew requiring food and oxygen would be a nice addition, making big ships costly in upkeep


2) Here i wanted to describe how this system would work, but i think i explained it above...
basically we:

1. build a ship
2. if it's big, we make crew-living sections on our ship
3. we assign the crew to that ship and they automatically assign themselves to the beds
4. then we make stations/workplaces for the crew and connect them to specific systems
5. the crew automatically get into free stations but it could be adjusted by the player
6. and we fly around happy that we are captains of ship with dozens of crew-members

If i made some mistakes or haven't made my idea clear enough - i'm sorry but this was a long text to write
Hope You would like it, because i think it would add a lot of entertainment to this game.

 

[ltmauve]

I feel like the beds idea is a bit too much, but otherwise this idea is quite good. Also, can we get restrictions on how we get NPCs, so it's not just buying a bajillion from the shop? Also, when NPCs are "moving about" they should actually be "at" their stations providing the un-nerf.

So far going into the turret's core from the interior of the ship (without using arrows while flying a ship) is impossible

Er just make a corridor to it. You want an interior, right? That aside I believe it would be better that turrets are managed separately from ships.

As for stations those should probably have a higher threshold than ships, simply because those are stationary and less powerful in terms of game balance.

 

[CyberTao]

I personally dont like these kinds of ideas... Ones that Imprint the idea of RP onto all ships to obtain a "boost".
It'd be fine for a RP server modpack, but people will go out of their way to maximize any form of Boost, to the point you will -Need- to have this stuff, and will need a Bigger ship to accommodate all of the NPCs just to fit into "High level play".

I dunno, I prefer "Here are your options" over "These are the options, but this is better". I feel it kinda takes away from the Sandboxy feel :u could just be me though.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

I feel like the beds idea is a bit too much

Assigning NPCs to the beds make ship their new home. I thought that simply assigning them to stations/workplaces would look and feel plain, beds would add more immersion.
And there is the basic version, where crew only need their stations on ships.

Also, can we get restrictions on how we get NPCs, so it's not just buying a bajillion from the shop?

I didn't mentioned gathering crew, because there are too many possibilities. They can be either widely available or a "luxury good" so loosing crew-members would be actually a lost. They could be bought, found on the junkyards/planets/stations, trained, cloned, etc. There are many ways and probably each server would be able to decide how hard it is to hire an NPC. (personally i'd like it to be harder than going to shop and paying 50k)

Also, when NPCs are "moving about" they should actually be "at" their stations providing the un-nerf.

Basically they should be on their stations, if we get the options to make ship-wide orders, then we could i.e. order "free time" or however it's called and then most of NPCs would walk around the ship. And in reverse, we could order them to get back to stations.

If we had jobs like medic, engineer, security, etc., then these crew-members, if without anything better to do, could walk on the ship within certain radius from their station and get back to it immediately after there is something for them to do.

Er just make a corridor to it. You want an interior, right? That aside I believe it would be better that turrets are managed separately from ships.

The turrets would still be different entity than the ship, my idea was mainly about turret's blocks built directly next to the ship's blocks, so it would be possible to walk ship-turret-ship corridor without being in space. It would look like it's the same entity but systems would be separated.
Right now there is pretty huge gap between turret and ship blocks, not to mention that turret can be in different positions, so any corridors leading to the turret don't have to work in all cases.

As for stations those should probably have a higher threshold than ships, simply because those are stationary and less powerful in terms of game balance.

Probably yes But still customization would have a key role here.

I personally dont like these kinds of ideas... Ones that Imprint the idea of RP onto all ships to obtain a "boost".
It'd be fine for a RP server modpack, but people will go out of their way to maximize any form of Boost, to the point you will -Need- to have this stuff, and will need a Bigger ship to accommodate all of the NPCs just to fit into "High level play".

1) If You do not have the interior it means You have more blocks in Your ship so You have some advantage
2) While NPCs can die, you wouldn't need to worry about rehiring them and costs of doing it
3) Not manned ships wouldn't have big disadvantage over crewed ones, BUT
4) It would be customizable, even to the levels that ships wouldn't require any NPCs to be at full potential.
If You wish to play on SP without interior in Your ship - You could do that.
If You want to play MP without worrying about Your crew - You would need to find a server without this system.

I do know that there might be some players which wouldn't care about having a crew on the ship but i think that empty hulls are pretty lonely and need at least some artificial company.

I dunno, I prefer "Here are your options" over "These are the options, but this is better". I feel it kinda takes away from the Sandboxy feel :u could just be me though.

As above + which system would be more efficient would mostly depend on server's configuration.


IMO filling ship with NPCs would be more time-consuming so it should be also more rewarding, but not to the level - i have a crew so i win.

 

[Ced2]

-I like the idea of having boost to your system if npc are working on it . It make sense.

-It actually simple to limit the npc you can get to your ship. You are only able to have one npc per system. System ex:shield, thrust ...

-I don't think that RP ship are less power full than full-opti ship. If we take two ship one with room and one with none that have the same mass the stats aren't really different cause the room are empty for the most part so you got a little bit more hull than the none rp ship that all (and with the new hp system you would have more hp because you got more hull). The only real disadvantage is you turn slower cause you would have to be a little bit bigger to fit the room

 

[Lecic]

-I like the idea of having boost to your system if npc are working on it . It make sense.

-It actually simple to limit the npc you can get to your ship. You are only able to have one npc per system. System ex:shield, thrust ...

-I don't think that RP ship are less power full than full-opti ship. If we take two ship one with room and one with none that have the same mass the stats aren't really different cause the room are empty for the most part so you got a little bit more hull than the none rp ship that all (and with the new hp system you would have more hp because you got more hull). The only real disadvantage is you turn slower cause you would have to be a little bit bigger to fit the room

Yeah, but with the new HP system, wouldn't it be more effective to just stuff those rooms with hull, or even just shields like people already do?

 

[ltmauve]

Yeah, but with the new HP system, wouldn't it be more effective to just stuff those rooms with hull, or even just shields like people already do?

I believe the point of the suggestion is that if you don't have a full crew, your titan will be little more effective than a frigate, not that your titan will be even more powerful compared to other sizes of ships one crew is in place.


lezco: I'm pretty sure that jobs like security, medic, or engineer (as opposed to a reactor technician or whatever) would actually be walking around and doing their jobs in an area that is their "station." A security guard isn't any good if they just sit in a chair the whole time. Likewise, engineers would go around repairing/replacing blocks during combat.

Also I suppose beds could give an advantage that if the crew member gets killed (by an intruder) then another crew member can replace thta one immediately

 

[Lecic]

I believe the point of the suggestion is that if you don't have a full crew, your titan will be little more effective than a frigate, not that your titan will be even more powerful compared to other sizes of ships one crew is in place.

I know, I was arguing against Ced2's argument that RP ships are currently as strong as pure function ships.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

lezco: I'm pretty sure that jobs like security, medic, or engineer (as opposed to a reactor technician or whatever) would actually be walking around and doing their jobs in an area that is their "station." A security guard isn't any good if they just sit in a chair the whole time. Likewise, engineers would go around repairing/replacing blocks during combat.

Medics, security, etc. could have their stations but generally wouldn't provide un-nerfing to the stats of the ship. Their stations wouldn't be connected to ship's systems, but their job would matter while in astronaut-mode. Maybe except engineers, they can actually do something more than repairing broken parts of the ship
At least this is my vision that medics don't boost any stats, but are pretty important for the crew, because they do no let them die, and security defends from the enemy invaders and maybe even sometimes counterattack.

But for the jobs like thruster/turret station i'd stick with the need of physically presence of the crew for this un-nerfing. But i wouldn't press much onto that matter, crew giving boost and wandering around would be also cool.

Also I suppose beds could give an advantage that if the crew member gets killed (by an intruder) then another crew member can replace thta one immediately

Or there could be cryo-pods, that would be even better than beds! Damn, i should've thought about this before... :/

Ced2
I wasn't making ships with interior, because i always couldn't break myself to actually not place more shields, but instead make a useless rooms, but from what i've seen on youtube, there are many big ships with a lot of room which when occupied could've boosted the stats of these ships dramatically.

 

[Ithirahad]

+1 to all of this. Mostly because all of my ships would suddenly get a massive buff. They all have largeish interiors, and usually empty rooms that could be occupied by beds - at least two per room in my smallest ship (at least, my smallest ship that isn't a cargo boat or shuttle), the Kalen-Miris Corvette, so that I could have three crewmen, which, aesthetically, is the exact right number for my bridge. One for weapons and shields, one for operations, and one engineer down in the core room or something. My larger ships get progressively more rooms too, so that works. I'd really like to see the decorative blocks thing happen too, but we're also going to need angular panel blocks and stuff.

 

[ToyotaSupra]

This gets my

Spoiler

seal of approval.

Interiors are so bland and plain, the only real option is to make them look like some kinda server room with power blocks or 'decoration' blocks or have them in garish multi-colour.

My inner flamboyant interior designer has so many ideas for a fab-u-lous ship, but no way to apply it. A bedroom for the crew like this idea would be practical, and visually appealing too. I like the idea of the crew members having a set place.

 

[Ced2]

Yeah, but with the new HP system, wouldn't it be more effective to just stuff those rooms with hull, or even just shields like people already do?

Yes it would. But like I said than the ship will be a bigger ship because you fill something empty with bloc = more mass. And it is normal that bigger ship are stronger.

 

[der_scheme]

I've thought of something quite similar a while ago, but I could never figure out how to circumvent its basic problems. So what exactly is keeping me from just putting all these Crewmen into one big room (i.e. the core room that any ship has ), or building a 1x2, unconnected chamber for everyone? Even if there was a mechanic introduced that would require every station to be near, dunno, a subsystems center of mass or something similar, the giant battle cube would still be the most effective design.

I dunno, I prefer "Here are your options" over "These are the options, but this is better". I feel it kinda takes away from the Sandboxy feel :u could just be me though.

You can use this argument to turn down any suggestion.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

I've thought of something quite similar a while ago, but I could never figure out how to circumvent its basic problems. So what exactly is keeping me from just putting all these Crewmen into one big room (i.e. the core room that any ship has ), or building a 1x2, unconnected chamber for everyone?

If there would be a requirement that every bed/cryopod need to have corridor connection to ship's core and it would be already necessary for beds to have such connection with stations, there won't be any closed, tiny isolation wards inside the ship.
And it also create a need for corridors in ships with big turrets, as beds couldn't be placed on the turrets, so crew manning one would be coming from the mother-ship.

But i think there shouldn't be anything to prevent players from keeping their whole crew in pretty small room with lots of beds and stations, but doing so, would make this room pretty important target for the enemy as killing everybody inside would injure every ship's systems.

Also of course beds and stations would require some free space around, so the crew would be able to walk next to them and do some animations (but it should be something like 2 blocks of free space or something like that)

the giant battle cube would still be the most effective design.

Giant cubes are the most effective designs, because of turning calulation formula and useless hull blocks. Once this would change, cubes won't have such big advantage


And thinking about this reply i thought about the idea of scanning ships.
There may be a scanning device, which shows us placement of different stations on scanned ship, so we could target energy regeneration stations to cripple e/s stat of the enemy, same goes for stations of other systems.
To prevent scattering same system stations across whole ship, stations which are of the same system and in certain radius within each other, would get efficiency bonus.

 

[Ghost_Story]

Personally I think the only drawback to your idea is that you want to nerf all non crewed ships.
Instead why not come up with unique (non numerical) ways to buff crewed ships while leaving non crewed ships alone.

Like for example in other threads people have been talking about hostile takeovers of other ships (boarding actions) have crew give you a defensive stat vs that and other utility stile buffs.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[aceface]

Basically like ftl. It would be awesome in game and schema already talked about this but it was good you elaborated the idea. Shields for example could be manned to make them also more efficient.

 

[jorgekorke]

The numbers of the said buffs could at least make the crewed ships with interiors on equal match to non-crewed ones, which does not have any interiors.

I disagree with the people who thinks the idea is bad because it is "nerfing" the ships that does not have such elements. This is the best way to balance the fighting overall, and will end the dilemma on the initial building phase -

" Should I make a good-looking ship, or maybe I have to create one solely for fighting for my faction ? "

While still the "cube-kind" (cheapest way to build a ship - the format guarantee the best turning speed, best energy generation at XYZ, best thrust...) would keep their advantage, at least the ships with interiors and RP structure would stand a chance at not being over-killed.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

i can see a big problem, i didnt test that in all servers, but in the server i.m playing there are a maximun for crew members that can be getted by a player, i supose that being applied on others servers too.

This limit applies for the number of NPCs following the player. Other NPCs can be assigned to stand and wait (yeah, not much fun for them, yet). I don't know if there is overall limit for number of crew members.

 

[Lecic]

I love the extended version of using crews, but i can see a big problem, i didnt test that in all servers, but in the server i.m playing there are a maximun for crew members that can be getted by a player, i supose that being applied on others servers too.

Perhaps the best way is to add to the ship crew of a small buff to all systems, and allow the player manipulate style when you press T and modified armament statistics.

Yeah, but there are NPC crewmembers, so lack of players to man stations isn't a problem.

 

[Lecic]

This limit applies for the number of NPCs following the player. Other NPCs can be assigned to stand and wait (yeah, not much fun for them, yet). I don't know if there is overall limit for number of crew members.

You can only have 5 follow you, but you can assign more than that to do other things.