Power Overhaul Ideas

[Phoenix7991]

There is no doubt that A new power system is needed, but how do we go about it. well here is my idea

The Idea!
Keep the old power system for fighters/small to medium ships, But use new better more efficient power blocks for bigger ships.

How?

we use the current power blocks but bring the soft cap down to around 500,000-750,000(devs can balance this better). if you want more power you have to use a different block,

Block Ideas!(feel free to add more)

with soft cap ideas

Anti Matter Reactor
-excellent for fighters and small ships where there is not alot of room.
-has a low soft cap encouraging players to upgrade to a better power system


without soft cap ideas

Solar Panels(yes I know this has been suggested before):
-excellent for space stations close to the center of a system.
-excellent for solar sailer type ships.
-not good for void systems or sectors far from the sun
requires 1 block
power generated greatly varies based on the location of the nearest star. (sectors next to star burn sector generates 1000 e/sec (devs can balance this), power drops 50 e/sec every 1 sector further from the burn zone, void systems generate 10 e/sec() also gives off an extra 500 bringing the total to 1500 e/sec when on a ship or station inside a star, (i think if a remember the devs confirmed that there would be some sort of shield block for the sun added at some point) )

Combustion Reactor,
-excellent for mining ships and smaller ships requiring more power.
-not good for big ships like battleships or titans
gives off 250e/sec
-requires 6 blocks: combustion control block, combustion reactor, gas collector, gas refiner, tank access block, tank block
-generates power by collecting nebula gas(when the devs add nebulas)
the collector collects the gas and stores it in a tank, the tanks are like the cargo system the tank access block is like a storage block, the tank like the cargo, the refiner is a factory block (placed on stations and enhanced by the factory enhancers) it turns collected gas from unrefined to refined which can then be place in another set of tanks(on a ship) that is linked to the the control block, the control block is like a cannon computer and is hooked up to the reactors.

Bio Reactor
-good for planets/station with fauna/flora.
-not good for deep space missions.
-gives off 500e/sec
4 blocks: bio reactor control block, bio reator, storage and cargo blocks.
place flora/dead fauna items in the bio reactor control block which has all the reactors linked to it, and watch the magic happen reactor control block can have space increased for longer flights by adding storage/cargo blocks.

Hydrogen Reactor
-good for stations in asteroid belts, or on ice planets.
-good for deep space.
-gives of 500e/sec(used as an alternative where fauna/flora is not readily available ie void systems)
-requires 4 blocks hydrogen reactor control block, hydrogen reactor, tank access block, tank block.
powered by water/ice, place the water/ice in the hydrogen reactor control block, which has reactors linked to it and watch the magic happen. can be expanded using tank access block and tank block

Nuclear reactor,
-excellent for every thing but very expensive
-gives off 2000e/sec
requires 2 blocks nuclear reactor control block, nuclear reactor
requires uranium, found in small amounts on planets.
place uranium in nuclear reactor control block which has nuclear reactors hooked up to it, and watch the magic happen,
will explode if nuclear reactor control block is destroyed.


Void Reactor
-placed on station only
-excellent in void systems.
not good in systems with a star
-gives off 2500 e/sec
requires 1 block Void reactor.
works like the current power block but gives off 2500 e/sec vs the currest 140 e/sec



for those worried about block id's this adds only 14 new blocks into the game with the addition of 6 new way to generate power.

tell me what you think or add more suggestions, in the comments

 

[Sen OTS Tier]

If we're talking about power, before anything else I'd like to be able to designate how much power is set aside for each system and in order of importance. For example, thrust gets power, then shields, then weapons, etc. That way, if you ideas were implemented in any way, I could have different power systems on a ship. Then I wouldn't have to worry about running out of power for a system from just flying around. For example, use your anti-matter reactor for thrust so I don't get stranded, and then have a nuclear reactor for powering the weapons.

 

[Sgtwisky]

This has been discussed in depth before.

Recognized - Fuel mechanic proposal
Brainstorm This - Faction Points as an Abstract Consumable, i.e. Food, Oxygen, and Fuel
Fuel Reactors (does NOT replace current reactors)

There are generally two sides to the debate. One side which would like to require infrastructure (not on the home base) to support large ships and large fleets. While the other side would prefer a more arcade like approach. I like the idea of infrastructure, but alas you also have to get people to agree on what small, medium, and large are.

TBH I prefer the first link I gave you the most. There are many more threads and ideas on this subject though. I would encourage you to take a look at them.

I disagree that we "need" a new power system. I think the current one works very well. Could it be better? Yes. Does it need to be? No.

I am not sure if your version would make it better or not. You have not really explained what might be involved other then the need to figure out what kind of source you want to use, and harvesting an amount of materials to power it. I'm not convinced it will add enough depth to the game to warrant the added complexity it would bring. Maybe you could describe the effects you expect it to have and why you think it will have those effects? Knowing that would give more insight into what your overall goal with the system is, and allow better constructive criticism.

Oh and due to the nature of the topic, be ready for lots of heated debating. That is what usually becomes of the fuel threads.

 

[Blobfscrazy]

There is no doubt that A new power system is needed, but how do we go about it. well here is my idea

The Idea!
Keep the old power system for fighters/small to medium ships, But use new better more efficient power blocks for bigger ships.

How?

we use the current power blocks but bring the soft cap down to around 500,000-750,000(devs can balance this better). if you want more power you have to use a different block,

Block Ideas!(feel free to add more)

with soft cap ideas

Anti Matter Reactor
-excellent for fighters and small ships where there is not alot of room.
-has a low soft cap encouraging players to upgrade to a better power system


without soft cap ideas

Solar Panels(yes I know this has been suggested before):
-excellent for space stations close to the center of a system.
-excellent for solar sailer type ships.
-not good for void systems or sectors far from the sun
requires 1 block
power generated greatly varies based on the location of the nearest star. (sectors next to star burn sector generates 1000 e/sec (devs can balance this), power drops 50 e/sec every 1 sector further from the burn zone, void systems generate 10 e/sec() also gives off an extra 500 bringing the total to 1500 e/sec when on a ship or station inside a star, (i think if a remember the devs confirmed that there would be some sort of shield block for the sun added at some point) )

Combustion Reactor,
-excellent for mining ships and smaller ships requiring more power.
-not good for big ships like battleships or titans
gives off 250e/sec
-requires 6 blocks: combustion control block, combustion reactor, gas collector, gas refiner, tank access block, tank block
-generates power by collecting nebula gas(when the devs add nebulas)
the collector collects the gas and stores it in a tank, the tanks are like the cargo system the tank access block is like a storage block, the tank like the cargo, the refiner is a factory block (placed on stations and enhanced by the factory enhancers) it turns collected gas from unrefined to refined which can then be place in another set of tanks(on a ship) that is linked to the the control block, the control block is like a cannon computer and is hooked up to the reactors.

Bio Reactor
-good for planets/station with fauna/flora.
-not good for deep space missions.
-gives off 500e/sec
4 blocks: bio reactor control block, bio reator, storage and cargo blocks.
place flora/dead fauna items in the bio reactor control block which has all the reactors linked to it, and watch the magic happen reactor control block can have space increased for longer flights by adding storage/cargo blocks.

Hydrogen Reactor
-good for stations in asteroid belts, or on ice planets.
-good for deep space.
-gives of 500e/sec(used as an alternative where fauna/flora is not readily available ie void systems)
-requires 4 blocks hydrogen reactor control block, hydrogen reactor, tank access block, tank block.
powered by water/ice, place the water/ice in the hydrogen reactor control block, which has reactors linked to it and watch the magic happen. can be expanded using tank access block and tank block

Nuclear reactor,
-excellent for every thing but very expensive
-gives off 2000e/sec
requires 2 blocks nuclear reactor control block, nuclear reactor
requires uranium, found in small amounts on planets.
place uranium in nuclear reactor control block which has nuclear reactors hooked up to it, and watch the magic happen,
will explode if nuclear reactor control block is destroyed.


Void Reactor
-placed on station only
-excellent in void systems.
not good in systems with a star
-gives off 2500 e/sec
requires 1 block Void reactor.
works like the current power block but gives off 2500 e/sec vs the currest 140 e/sec



for those worried about block id's this adds only 14 new blocks into the game with the addition of 6 new way to generate power.

tell me what you think or add more suggestions, in the comments

Actually quite like this idea. Power should def scale with ship size

 

[Mork2]

Just be aware that any changes to how the power system works really effects game balance....

You can currently put massive amounts of power on a ship just you need to do a bit of design. Any power to mass increase will also favour the doom cubes everyone doesn't like.

Currently in-game by using modular power cores I'm able to power a 418k mass titan with full ion shielding (around 10mil e/sec), perma radar jam (21mil e/sec at a guess), thrust mass between 0.4-0.5 (13mil e/sec) and an insane amount of weaponry and 80mil shields/ 1.5mil regen. There is over 100mil e/sec on the ship in total.

With that doom cubes are a joke, they would need almost 4mil power reactors or 400k mass of power reactors to generate that much. I'm assuming the power reactors are still capping at 25e/sec at over the softcap.

The more power you can put into a ship for the same mass the more systems you can run, and this effects your game balance.

 

[Pacific_Jim]

Keep the existing power system as is tbh. Only thing that's needed is an overhaul/replacement for docked reactors, mainly for performance reasons. I'd suggest an Advanced reactor system, where each advanced reactor takes up a similar amount of space to a docked reactor, with a either a controlling computer or blocks that explode when hit (or both?) to limit them. Each seperate reactor having a cap of roughly 1.5 million, and with a diminishing returns on having multiple reactors to stop people having 50 smaller reactors to get by the penalty.

 

[HolyCookie]

The problem I see with every system (from this suggestion but also just StarMade in general) is that bigger ships always win. It is always about having the biggest and badest. If you are in a smaller ship big chances that you are going to lose. The uncertain "skill" value doesn't have much influence on the gameplay. It seems you are aware of that but with this suggestion you give both small ships and big ships an advantage and because big ships are always able to use more of the advantage, they win.

ps: I do not mean that small ships should be able to win from big ships as that would mean there is some kind of ultimate size for a ship to make it perfect against both small and big ships.

(this is just my opinion nothing council)

 

[Madman198237]

A bigger ship will always win......provided the enemy plays by the big ship's rules. If you try to out-tank a larger vessel also built to tank, you will lose. If, instead, you play the maneuverability card and outflank, then you can win. The littlest ship's biggest advantages are always tactics and speed. ALWAYS. Better tactics = better chance. Proper use of your speed advantage = better chance.

 

[Sgtwisky]

Don't forget numbers. If you have a friend or two, or even some AI fighters you gain a much better chance.

 

[Lukwan]

Whatever form a new power system takes it should come with a big risk to balance the big reward. I would support any sane idea for super reactors as long they are volatile. Take too many hits and the reactor-core blows a huge hole in the ship. (Built in balance-element.) That way big ships are vulnerable to critical hits and could still limp home if the ship-design was 'safe'. More drama is a good thing.

 

[Pacific_Jim]

Don't forget numbers. If you have a friend or two, or even some AI fighters you gain a much better chance.

This. Once you get to a handful of ship the 1/3 rule for mass is in full kicks in and the smaller ships will win the majority of the time. Of course, as the AI is errr, a bit lackluster at the moment this only really works for players (or drones), but that should improve in time. This is a pretty good way to balance things, since bigger ships should be beasty due to the time/effort it takes to design them and the resource cost of building them, but they're not unbeatable.

 

[terra mining corp.]

Maybe a less complicated solution is needed,perhaps using a fuel source to give a bonus to output(just temp)to power or thrust and the consumption based on multiplier?

 

[NTIMESc]

What I have been doing is to cripple Power Reactors and give Power Capacitors a big boost. The current settings I have been playing with make Reactors 1/5 as powerful (both e/sec and capacity), and Capacitors store 10x more than default. I've always felt that the reactor should typically only power basic thrust, charging shields, life support (if that ever gets added), etc. Any intense situations would be handled by stored power, and most ships shouldn't be able to operate under such draining conditions for long before powering down to recharge.

If we're talking about power, before anything else I'd like to be able to designate how much power is set aside for each system and in order of importance.

This is something that I am REALLY hoping gets added to the game soon! What kind of starship doesn't have a power distribution control? I would wager that every single episode of star trek has them re-routing power in some way or another.

 

[KuramaFox]

I think that having too many different kinds of generation would be a bit iffy.

That said, there can easily be at least 2 "standard" types of generation, which would include BOTH a fueled power system, and a"free" one. To avoid messing with current designs, one of these would be the one we already have.


1. RTG Reactor (or alternatively, Fission Reactor): (This is actually the already-existing reactors given a new name). (1 already-existing block)
-These would be the current reactor block. It would still have the same softcap, and the same (or similar) power generation mechanics it currently does. It would only be renamed. RTGs use radioactive materials that decay and produce heat. So logically, they do not need to be refueled for a very long time (at a minimum, at least a month of continuous action). In other words, they do not need the "fuel" resource, period.
-Because they work based on a heat gradient, the otherwise odd building mechanic of making long lines actually makes sense for them, since they would basically generate power based on surface area. You can even argue that the softcap makes sense due to the fact that having too many of them in one place will cause the ship around them to be warmer (and thus reduce effectiveness of how well they generate power from the reduced temperature difference).
-Naturally, the above reasoning is merely attempting to justify the current mechanics. We could also call them Fission Reactors too, since those are also able to last a long time without needing more fuel (and really, they aren't actually too much different from the concept of an RTG power system). Regardless, we can simply say that they are simply built with their necessary fuel already inside them.

2. Fusion Reactor. (2 new blocks, 1 of which is optional)
-These would be a reactor type that requires fuel to operate. It does NOT have a power cap, soft or otherwise. This is because they use fuel, so the "limits" to their power are really based on how long you want them to be able to operate with the amount of fuel you brought with you.
-Additionally, the power generated by a fusion reactor is NOT counted towards the softcap of RTG/Fission Reactors. So the RTG/Fission reactors will still softcap around 2 million like they do now, regardless of whether or not you have fusion reactors.
-Fuel use is proportional to power production. However, the larger a given single reactor is, the more efficient it gets (down to maybe 20% of the fuel-per-power use of a one-block fusion reactor for very large reactors).
-The fusion reactor's power production would increase per-block with total block count in a manner similar to power capacitors.
-If a given reactor is damaged (that is, loses at least 1 block to damage), it no longer produces power. This lasts until you reboot the ship, repair it at a shipyard, or otherwise "reset" the systems. Naturally, this does not affect any reactors which are NOT touching the damaged one.
-The Reactor Computer block: an optional block that lets you easily turn on and off any reactors connected to them (without a computer, they are automatically on by default and can only be toggled by walking up to one and pressing the "use" button). Useful if you want to rely on the "free" RTG reactors when not in combat.
-You could potentially also attach certain effect systems to the computer to alter the reactors characteristics in some way. Overdrive could increase power but lower efficiency, ion could improve efficiency but reduce power production, explosive could improve power production but cause reactors to explode when damaged, etc.



2.5. Fuel (1 new block, or 2 if set up to mirror cargo blocks).
-Fuel capacity would be added via fuel tank blocks.
-The ship core would now have some built-in fuel capacity of its own, the same way it has built-in power capacity. Will the wonders of ship core technology never cease to amaze?!
-Regardless, this means you technically don't need to have fuel tanks on a very small ship that uses fuel-based systems if you don't want.
-Fuel would be produced at a Fuel Refinery Block. Which would be a new factory block (and thus follow the usual factory block restrictions). It would produce fuel from ice and water blocks. If gas giants are added, it may also be possible to obtain fuel directly from them too.
-If any other systems are added that require fuel (such as advanced thrusters), then all things that require fuel will use the same kind of fuel for simplicity.
-Various ideas can be had for the potential dangers of fuel tanks. Perhaps upon losing at least one block, a given tank would start leaking. And if a given fuel tank loses 50% or more of its blocks, it could explode violently. The first would encourage people to make multiple fuel tanks, while the second encourages them NOT to just make a checkerboard of 1-block fuel tanks. Another option (instead of explosions) would be to allow fuel capacity to scale similarly to power capacitors, such that a single large tank holds more fuel, and to keep the leaking mechanic to still encourage multiple fuel tanks.
-In a fuel menu (similar to the Thrust menu), you can set a ship or station to either take fuel from docked objects, or to send it to them by clicking a button. With future improvements to UI, you could also potentially specify a specific docked entity to do this. Alternatively, a new type of docking rail could be added which automatically attempts to refuel a ship that docks to it, allowing you to simply specify what you want to refuel based on what type of docking rail you dock it to. You could also potentially purchase fuel without docking from trade guild stations that offer it for sale (for simplicity sake, it would just be teleported aboard your ship or something). In the future, perhaps trade guild stations could get a turret with a fuel supply beam that they shoot you with when you purchase fuel.


2.6 Fuel Supply Beam (and associated computer). (2 new blocks)
-Similar to a shield supply beam or an energy supply beam. As you might guess, this beam supplies fuel.
-Useful for when you want to refuel something without needing to dock it to the ship or station carrying all the fuel (or if you only want to refuel a SINGLE thing and not every docked ship on the station).


Since fuel also brings to mind thrusters, I'll comment on those too.


3. Gravitic Thrusters (these are the currently existing thrusters given a new name) (1 already-existing block).
-The current thrusters, given a new name. These thrusters are somewhat low power, and they use a fair chunk of energy. However, they can accelerate in ANY direction, and also do not need fuel.
-Because they are versatile and don't need fuel, they are easy to use.
-I must stress that I feel very strongly that there should be no fuel requirement for the basic thrusters.


4. Plasma Thrusters (or a similar name like that which indicates they use fuel) (2 new blocks, 1 of which is optional)
-These would be a "second tier" of thrusters. They would cost very little energy and be much stronger than the normal gravitic thrusters.
-However, these thrusters use fuel to operate.
-Additionally, they only work for acceleration in a single direction, and provide only minor rotational thrust (and perhaps only yaw and pitch, relative to the direction of the thruster).
-The thruster menu would not effect them, except for the rotation/thrust ratio slider. After all, the direction of their thrust is already pre-determined by the direction you place them facing.
-The Thruster Computer is an optional block that would allow you to toggle fuel-fed thrusters on or off (useful for a toggle-able afterburner or a combat-only thruster). (without a computer they are on by default, and need to be turned on or off manually by walking over to them and hitting the "use" button) You could also potentially connect various effect systems to alter the traits of attached thrusters. Ion could reduce fuel use but increase power use, overdrive could increase fuel and power use but greatly increase thrust, "push/pull" could perhaps allow the thruster to also work in reverse, or to supply a small portion of their thrust to the sides, etc).





Other ideas/comments on other ideas, etc:

Maneuvering Thrusters (1 new block): These could perhaps be a fuel-using thruster system that increases your ability to turn, but don't affect your acceleration/speed.


Solar Panels (1 new block): Could be messy to implement if we make them too complex. So lets try to make some simple rules for them:
-Would not have a softcap, or count towards the fission/RTG's softcap.
-Power generation is based on how close they are to a system's star in sectors, and which of the 6 directions of the ship is closest to "facing" the star's sector.
-Must have a clear line to space in (i.e. cannot be blocked by other blocks) at least one of the 6 directions to work at all. Provided you do that, it will provide power whenever the star is in a direction it has a clear line to space in (again, using only the 6 basic directions for simplicity purposes).
-It will not worry about shade or other complex things like that.
-Power generation can be a good deal better than an RTG/Fission reactor at small sizes. Due to not counting towards a power cap, they can also be useful for stations which may not want to worry about fuel use (while still wanting to get around the softcap).


Black Hole Reactor/Annihilation Reactor (most similar to your "combustion reactor" idea)(1-2 new blocks, since we presumeably want a computer to turn it on and off): A "reactor" that draws energy out of a black hole's event horizon, or uses some other means of converting matter directly into energy.
-No softcap.
-Fairly good power generation per-block, but the power-per-block is constant regardless of size. For large ships, other reactor types might produce more power per block in the long run.
-This type of reactor block is very heavy.
-It is also very expensive, and relatively hard to make in factories, possibly require a lot of energy and rare materials to make.
-Instead of fuel, you link it to a cargo container in which you place blocks. It basically converts these blocks into energy. You can set it to pull only certain blocks from the storage if you want.
-Potentially useful for small ships that don't want to have maneuverability. Can also serve as a useful power source on a compact mining ship with high power needs, which will likely have constant access to large numbers of blocks.