Brainstorm This New Power Block

[DivineEvil]

My idea about power supply rewamp goes as that:

Absorber Array
- Basically replaces the conventional Reactor we have now. Cheap to produce and purchace.
- Consumes external radiation from stars as power. Being in a system with one type of star or another produce different output levels. Being in Dual-star systems effectively doubles the power output.
- Void and Worm-Hole systems provides no power output.
- Has the same grouping benefits without a soft cap, but the overall output of all AA groups on an entity works with dinimishing returns, making it better suited for small ships.

- Ignoring grouping benefits and placing solid clusters of reactors gives almost no additional output.
Note: Since this power source requires no fuel, it's the best choice for small private ships and drones with small power needs. It is also a good addition for emergency power supply in case of other reactors running out of fuel. Nevertheless, it is useless for traversing between galaxies, and requires larger ratio of mass devoted for them to power up Jump-Drives conveniently.

Thermal Reactor / Thermal Chamber
- Medium tier power reactor. Consists of a CPU with a small inventory and Chambers as slaves to that CPU.
- Takes Lava as fuel. Consumes the amount of fuel and then generates the power output for a certain period of time. Required amount of fuel, power output and duration of each phase is determined by the amount of Chambers.
- Have grouping benefits based on the ratio between amount of blocks divided by summ of group dimensions. That means, that any rectangular array will achieve best results, whether it is a cube, plane or a straight line. Has some diminishing returns favoring multitude of groups over one large group of equal size.

- If CPU is destroyed, the entire array is knocked out and fuel stored is dropped.
- If Chambers are damaged, the output duration is reset, and extra fuel is consumed.
- Produced using Matisse capsules and Metal Meshes.

Note: Though it requires fuel, Lava is readily available, as most common asteroids and planets has large amounts of it.

Fusion Reactor / Fusion Shell
- Capital class power reactor system. Consists of a CPU with a small inventory and Shells as slaves to that CPU.
- Can take either Ice, Ice Crystals or Water as fuel, latter is more efficient. Type of fuel must be chosen from drop-down menu.
- Type of fuel used determines the power output (purity), while the amount of Shells in a group determines the amount of fuel consumed per phase and duration of that phase using the same amount of fuel.
- Have grouping benefits opposite ot the AA - the less dimensions a group occupies and the less the difference between smallest and largest dimensions of that group, the more efficient the output is.
- Fusion Reactors initially drain energy (electro-magnetic suspension), rather than outright producing it, which means that building Fusion Reactors smaller than a certain volume is virtually pointless.

- If active CPU is destroyed, slaved Shells will cease to produce power. Instead they will destroy random blocks of the entity each 0.5 seconds until active phase is over, unless they are slaved to another CPU or removed. Stored fuel supply is destroyed either way.
- If even a single Shell of an active group is damaged by weapons or destroyed due to aforementioned effect, the entire array explodes similar to a Warhead group with radius based on the smallest dimension. This explosion ignores shields, but considers armor of the blocks it coming trough, which means that additional shielding with Advanced Armor and ForceFields can help neglect the catastrophic event.
- Produced using Sintyr and Zercaner capsules.

Note: Unlike Lava, Ice and Ice Crystals can only be found on Ice Planets, rare Dolom Asteroids contain only a handful of Ice, and Water can only be refined from these resources via Factories. This makes these resources a very valuable commodity for anyone who is willing to use any Capital-class ships or very powerful Factory structures, and a very good source of income for miners.

- Aforementioned CPUs should be available for placing them into ship's Action tab for convenient maintenance. You'd be able to turn them on/off similar to Defensive Effect arrays, and cooldown overlay can be used as active phase indicators. Right-clicking selected CPU can be used for opening it's inventory.

- If that or similar system is ever going to be considered, it would help to have a Breaking Point variables for each of those Reactor types in the Server Config file.

• Breaking point for Absorbtion Arrays is the amount of total blocks, at which any additional blocks would only give 1.0 regen rating.
• Breaking Point for Thermal Reactors is the amount of total blocks, at which point having more gives the same amount of output for the same amount of fuel consumed.
• Breaking Point for Fusion Reactors is the amount of block in a group required for it to start producing net positive output.

These variables will be helpful for server admins to manipulate difficulty for using one or another method of power generation, thus determining the types of ships they want to see on their server.

 

[bigmonmulgrew]

well I just waded in liek a complete noob and double posted, here was my take on the anti-matter thing
http://starmadedock.net/threads/new-blocks-antimatter-reactor-antimatter-storage.8132/

 

[Ithirahad]

I... really don't want fuel, honestly. No matter what, it'll just be a pain in the ass and result in getting stuck out in space. If we get some mechanics to replace the benefits of linear damping without keeping the damping itself, then maybe, but even then I don't want to find myself drifting out in the middle of space because I didn't have enough fuel left to brake. Games are supposed to be fun, and I don't find that sort of thing fun...

...What I would like, though, is some kind of exploding reactor that produces more energy. Would be a risk to use, but still rewarding, and without the annoyances that come with having a fuel system in the game.

 

[Winterhome]

I... really don't want fuel, honestly. No matter what, it'll just be a pain in the ass and result in getting stuck out in space. If we get some mechanics to replace the benefits of linear damping without keeping the damping itself, then maybe, but even then I don't want to find myself drifting out in the middle of space because I didn't have enough fuel left to brake. Games are supposed to be fun, and I don't find that sort of thing fun...

...What I would like, though, is some kind of exploding reactor that produces more energy. Would be a risk to use, but still rewarding, and without the annoyances that come with having a fuel system in the game.

Fuel doesn't necessarily mean that you're forced to use it. As far as I can tell, everyone who talks about fuel wants ships to need to use it to operate at full capacity, with some sort of minimum output setting, or to have reactors that use fuel and work far better than normal reactors. It doesn't seem like Starmade is the sort of game to say "LOL no, you lost fuel, you're ded"

 

[Planr]

Fuel doesn't necessarily mean that you're forced to use it. As far as I can tell, everyone who talks about fuel wants ships to need to use it to operate at full capacity, with some sort of minimum output setting, or to have reactors that use fuel and work far better than normal reactors. It doesn't seem like Starmade is the sort of game to say "LOL no, you lost fuel, you're ded"

If you have to use fuel to work at maximum efficiency then you're pretty much forced to use it if you want to ever get anything done.

 

[TheOmega]

Like I said earlier, we could have multiple different power systems without much complication. The normal blocks would be nerfed to produce less power, add in the fuel reactors/ tanks (whatever it might be), ans the exploding one that doesn't cost fuel but is equivalent to the fuel reactor. That way its kinda balanced with fuel reactors being specialized more to strong alpha strike craft, and the explosive reactors specialized to stealth and fast moving craft, if storing fuel would increase the ship's mass.

 

[DivineEvil]

I simply cannot see what is so difficult about fuel really. If you can access the data about how much fuel you require and how long it lasts, it is easy to figure out how much you need, and if you don't want to waste it while AFK or just doing something unrelated, you can simply turn corresponding generator systems off trough weapon tab. I can't imagine a single person who would see this as a difficulty, especially considering some systems Starmade already offers. At least it's nothing worth defying the possible use for some natural resources and more efficient power systems.

 

[TheOmega]

I simply cannot see what is so difficult about fuel really.

EVERYTHING IS DIFFICULT ABOUT FUEL. Most suggestions about fuel actually have an alternative that is weaker, but doesn't cost fuel, and this is the wrong way to go. In that case people who don't want to use fuel because of whatever can't support the idea because it excludes them, and people who want fuel want everyone to have fuel, and soon the world turns upside down because fuel and then everything explodes and a lot of math is involved like calculus and stuff and *INHALE DEEPLY* everybody dies in a horrible pit of burning fuel.

Obviously fuel is slightly more complicated, and most people don't know how the game's math works, if anybody wants I could come up with a balanced algorithm for it as a proof of concept.

 

[Planr]

EVERYTHING IS DIFFICULT ABOUT FUEL. Most suggestions about fuel actually have an alternative that is weaker, but doesn't cost fuel, and this is the wrong way to go. In that case people who don't want to use fuel because of whatever can't support the idea because it excludes them, and people who want fuel want everyone to have fuel, and soon the world turns upside down

Obviously fuel is slightly more complicated, and most people don't know how the game's math works, if anybody wants I could come up with a balanced algorithm for it as a proof of concept.

This, so much. People say "oh, i want fuel, and we can have it work by doing this and that" but every proposed method for using fuel almost always requires introducing drastic new engine/gameplay mechanics/features in order for just the fuel to work.

The biggest problem of fuel though is that it adds another requirement of time consumed for grinding just to enjoy the game normally. Now you not only have to go and mine for regular minerals and ores, but now you also have to go looking for fuel. Of course though someone could say "oh, well lets have fuel be made from minerals and ores so that you dont have to grind for longer times" but if you now also have fuel being a resource drain from minerals and ores, as well as those minerals and ores arleady being used for shipbuilding, it then means you have to go and mine more just to get the sufficient amount of resources you need.

So no matter how you look at it, adding "fuel" into the game just creates more need for time-consuming resource grinding, as well as necessitating yet another drastic change to the StarMade engine, universe, and ship construction. That's not fun at all. I like to play StarMade for the ship combat and exploration, not for the resource grinding/mining/factory processing. Not to mention that if fuel was implemented in any of the flavors people have already proposed, everyone would definitely have to refit their ships yet AGAIN with fuel tanks. Personally i'm getting tired of having to refit my ships every month or two because of gameplay changes.

 

[SkyHawk024]

well from what i read you could have a fail safe system around these blocks on a larger ship so to say if they did go boom, you'd have either heavy heavy armoring around the reactors to "Contain" the explosions or have cushion blocks of lower grade armor encapsulating the reactor with a heavy armor shell to absorb and contain the explosion as well. But that's my theory

 

[Raisinbat]

The biggest problem of fuel though is that it adds another requirement of time consumed for grinding just to enjoy the game normally. Now you not only have to go and mine for regular minerals and ores, but now you also have to go looking for fuel. Of course though someone could say "oh, well lets have fuel be made from minerals and ores so that you dont have to grind for longer times" but if you now also have fuel being a resource drain from minerals and ores, as well as those minerals and ores arleady being used for shipbuilding, it then means you have to go and mine more just to get the sufficient amount of resources you need.

So no matter how you look at it, adding "fuel" into the game just creates more need for time-consuming resource grinding, as well as necessitating yet another drastic change to the StarMade engine, universe, and ship construction. That's not fun at all. I like to play StarMade for the ship combat and exploration, not for the resource grinding/mining/factory processing. Not to mention that if fuel was implemented in any of the flavors people have already proposed, everyone would definitely have to refit their ships yet AGAIN with fuel tanks. Personally i'm getting tired of having to refit my ships every month or two because of gameplay changes.

But grinding resources is the best part of the game...

 

[DivineEvil]

This, so much. People say "oh, i want fuel, and we can have it work by doing this and that" but every proposed method for using fuel almost always requires introducing drastic new engine/gameplay mechanics/features in order for just the fuel to work.

Give me an example of what drastic new engine is required to introduce my version, and elaborate. Otherwise your objection is emplty and mute.

The biggest problem of fuel though is that it adds another requirement of time consumed for grinding just to enjoy the game normally. Now you not only have to go and mine for regular minerals and ores, but now you also have to go looking for fuel.

By my proposition, Lava and Ice are used as fuel. You don't need extra time to mine them, as you already can get enormous amounts of Lava and Ice from mining almost any resources, and these natural resources are regarded as nothing but useless waste, which is scrapped by dozens of thousands after each mining routine. All shops, that has ever been actively visited, are full of Lava and Ice. This is funny to see how a biggest problem of fuel is in fact virtually nonexistent.

So no matter how you look at it, adding "fuel" into the game just creates more need for time-consuming resource grinding, as well as necessitating yet another drastic change to the StarMade engine, universe, and ship construction. That's not fun at all. I like to play StarMade for the ship combat and exploration, not for the resource grinding/mining/factory processing. Not to mention that if fuel was implemented in any of the flavors people have already proposed, everyone would definitely have to refit their ships yet AGAIN with fuel tanks. Personally i'm getting tired of having to refit my ships every month or two because of gameplay changes.

Mining is an essential part of the game, that currently play a major role in installing your presence in any given Universe. Whether you agree or not, grinding resources already occupies about 40-45% of the time EVERY player spends in Starmande. Unless there's a significant inprovement of player effect on economy, mining is the only way to provide you with the required materials to build every single ship. Introducing fuel would not increase the necessity of mining, it will only grant a practical value to some blocks, that are othervise is a waste.

Refit is also wouldn't be necessary as, by most proposals, the old power generation system would remain intact. Introducing the new power generation methods would simply allow for more weight efficient power supply in exchange for specific drawback. Finally, the Alpha stage of the Starmade always were and still is demands player's consideration, that ANYTHING can change as developers see fit. That is applied to any mechanic and every aspect of the game process, and refusal to aknowledge that makes your involvement in this exact Forum section completely pointless. Please refrain from use of this argument in future.

 

[TheOmega]

If something is easy to obtain, what's the point? You are literally adding an extra step to something that doesn't need one. Human innovation is based on the fact that we want everything to be bigger, better, and more complicated, in order to make everything easier.

 

[shadowulf]

I'll add a thought. Fuel is used to INCREASE power regen and possibly act as overdrive on larger ships, so it does not interfere with fuelless ships. If implemented, I for one would like to use it to maybe cloak/jam a capital for maybe 30 seconds to reposition and regen shields. The drawback would be uses quite a bit of fuel, limited fuel storage, and volatility.

 

[DivineEvil]

If something is easy to obtain, what's the point? You are literally adding an extra step to something that doesn't need one. Human innovation is based on the fact that we want everything to be bigger, better, and more complicated, in order to make everything easier.

Because you still need to. Otherwise, you implement a system or systems for power generation, which doesn't require anything but itself, which lead to any inferior systems becoming an entirely worthless data vacuum. The same way the vast majority of planet blocks currently are.

I'm not literally adding anything. I'm suggesting a pair of alternative methods to generate power for medium and large ships more efficiently, than placing humongous thousands of reactors, for an exchange of corresponding drawbacks with an additional usage method for some generic blocks, that are otherwise completely useless. Requirement to drill down and extract oil and then to develop immensely complex system with a fuel dependency did not stopped humanity from inventing cars.

 

[TheOmega]

If you purposefully make things tedious you are a bad innovator.

 

[DivineEvil]

If you purposefully make things tedious you are a bad innovator.

Where's "tedious" in my proposal?

Maybe you should stick to creative servers to the end of time then, if you cannot face even a miniscule challenge.

 

[TheOmega]

Good lord, you are thick. Adding anything extra that isn't hard to get and is repetitive is called tedious.

 

[DivineEvil]

Good lord, you are thick. Adding anything extra that isn't hard to get and is repetitive is called tedious.

Maybe you're just way too subtle. Again, human has added some extra routine, to extract, process and regularly redistribute the petroleum, to make Cars work. It is tedious and even dangerous work, but it's worth the benefits. And if you propose the addition of a power system, that doesn't require any fuel, then the complexity is not enough for an equal choice being present to favor one over another - you will always use the one, that is more efficient, and abandon prior method permanently. The same way as if IRL we actually mass-produce and distribute some "neutrino-generator" that requires no fuel, petroleum industry will collapse. I don't want that to happen with conventional power arrays we're all used to, so I suggest a system which would require some additional considerations and failsaves if you'd wish to use the more powerful system.

And what is repetetive? Mining? Isn't that the thing that you do for the most of the time you play on the survival server? You should probably look to another thread.

 

[Planr]

All I know is that I want fuel to have no part of the default StarMade game. If you want fuel as an add-on mod I have no problem with that, but I like the system for power as it is, and don't want anything to upset it. Adding fuel - at least the way you're proposing it, DivineEvil - appears to be that it would allow ships that use fuel to recieve an amount of power with fuel in a much smaller space than what would be required for a regular power system. That's not an alternative at all, it just means everyone who wants to win with less resource expenditures will automatically go to the fuel system to get their power.

The way I see it, you can't balance a system like that which only stores power up to a point, without it being inherently unbalanced.
The times in which people rely on their power generation the most is in combat, and they require a constant supply of it. Combat usually doesn't last longer than a few minutes, so the fact that fuel eventually depletes doesn't really matter there. People who want to win in combat will need the most power generation they can get. So if you make it so that the fuel system makes more power than a regular power system per block, people will exclusively use the fuel system, as it gives them more power in relation to space, and its eventual depletion is not an issue, because the time in which they need that power is in combat, which doesn't last long. If you make it so that it gives the same power, but eventually depletes, nobody will bother using it because the regular power system is superior. If you make it give less power per block, people will still not bother using it.

All in all, I still see no way in which a fuel system and starmade's current power system can mutually coexist without one system being the go-to.

Also, lava is not "otherwise completely useless". It's a frequently used block in decoration and to cover ship engines, along with ice crystals.