New crafting system discussion

[starhaiden]

lets say the hull is made of carbon atoms because carbon is very heat resistance even more then iron and some forms of carbon is stronger then most iron forms. you could make the hull out of planets and wood but need a lot of planets and wood

 

[AsherMaximum]

It does seem to take a lot of resources to create one block. That may not be a bad thing, but based on a few other comments in the thread, I had an idea.

Bring back recipe leveling, in a different form. Leveling would be based on the player, instead of a recipe. Multiplication should be capped at no higher than 200-300%. Most blocks would start at 100%, but some of the higher level blocks could start lower, and require you to manufacture a few dozen before you got to 100%. The multiplier would be set based on whoever set the recipe, so factions could have one skilled manufacturer, and anyone could stock the factories with supplies.
This way, everyone still has the ability to create everything, but those who specialize in crafting a certain item or crafting in general would have a payoff for that.

Second idea I had; have another macro factory, that builds in multiples, but at a reduced cost of resources. For example, the factory could be set to 100x, but it would only cost 90x supplies, or 1000x, but only cost 800x supplies. It would use increased power based on the same system as connecting expanders to existing factories. Alternatively, just use the existing factories, and reduce the cost when 100x & 1000x worth of expanders connected to it.

Lastly, we need something to do with all the various dirt, stone, and plant forms we harvest from planets. Right now they are useless, and whereas being able to create a lot of stuff with them would overpower the economy, I think it would still be nicely balanced if you could create something like 1 capsule for 500-2000 dirt blocks.

 

[AsherMaximum]

Also, it would be really handy if the UI for factories was modified so that in the graph, it changed based on the multiplier from connected enhancers. (So if the factory had 9 enhancers, making it work at 10x, all the ingredient quantities and output amounts shown would be multiplied by 10)

 

[NeonSturm]

Just use rocks as ammo :D *joking*

@AsherMaximum I like the recipe efficiency based on player skill level, but even 200% looks like too much.

I would like it even more if you can only specialize on a single product or category. Specializing in one should remove specialisation in another and take a lot of blocks (you gain negative exp in one when you get exp in another block recipe after a certain point)

This would ensure that players trade with each other. (and will at least work perfectly on white-listed servers)



BTW: I hope we speak about a server option and no enforced default?

 

[Ithirahad]

Waaaay too many random scattered intermediate steps and components that make no sense (Power reactors in things that need to draw power anyway? Wat?) but the base concept is nice. 6/10; could easily become 9.72/10 with some refinement.

 

[Calbiri]

I posted an apt reply on a similar thread, rather than just copy/pasting it (and removing some of its context) ill just provide a link to my response there.

http://starmadedock.net/threads/full-crafting-tree-image-images.2349/page-2#post-35573

 

[Byamarro]

I think that we need some auto minning :p
Looks that we need some improved AI for new crafting system.
Calbiri, what's up with LUA programming AI? Schema mentioned it few times.

 

[Calbiri]

I honestly dont know, I'm not even qualified to understand AI or LUA, they sounds like magic to me. But yes, improvements are needed and will be worked on.

 

[Byamarro]

I meant that Schema promised that there will be way to programm AI by players in game. If i'm not wrong.
It will be great as players could do nearly everything they want with AI.

 

[Inspired2150]

I posted an apt reply on a similar thread, rather than just copy/pasting it (and removing some of its context) ill just provide a link to my response there.

http://starmadedock.net/threads/full-crafting-tree-image-images.2349/page-2#post-35573

I have read your reply and you said that you are open to suggestions for component names. I don't know if I am the only one in this, but I think names like "Parsen Storage Node, Nocx Storage Node" are quite... meaningless? Obviously it's high-tech futuristic stuff, but perhaps it would be better if component names were more "relatable"? Like, iron bolts, steel plates, copper tubes, or in a way that is more adjusted to the current materials it could be Jisper plates, Hital framework, Parstun springs.

Then the more advanced components could be "x engine" "y piston" "z lever", from which you would craft something that makes sense.

I don't know what you guys think, but I am unable to remember any of the recipes, because all the blocks seem the same to me.

What do you think?

 

[Calbiri]

the issue is partly in that the blocks all have a similar appearance when placed, ill put some more thought into the naming schemes, perhaps i can come up with more unique while still apt names for them. (i agree, they do kind of feel cookie cutter)

 

[Aecetym]

I find the new crafting system an improvement over the old recipe one for sure. But after taking a good look at it, it is just a bit less horrible in terms of economics then the previous one.

Crafting/refining/ ... the basic materials to get the factory, refinery and the assembler is somewhat time consuming and even a bit pointless. what I mean by pointless is that you might aswell strip a station, sell those parts and buy all the factory stuff from the shops. You make money, don't waist time on building all that stuff and it's way less boring.

The lack of an infrastructure like pipes, tubes, ... or any type of needed support blocks to make it work or connect factories with eachother is somewhat of a letdown imo (not that it was their before but still). You got no challange what so ever with setting up a factory, no satisfaction seeing it work nor a sense of accomplishment.

The next thing is the crafting and gathering resources. Sound fun and awesome ... but seeing a huge pile or resources turn into a handfull of blocks, just to come to the realization you got to repeat that proces endlessly just to acquire a decent amount of blocks is ... depressing.

So making anything els except faction blocks is pointless. You can even skip all the basic productions by buying all the needed materials for the final step for under 5000 credits/factionblock in shops while after 1 production step you got a + 200000 credits/block, a gain of 4000% and + in credits. After that you can just spawn in resource/hull/... blueprints with the credits.

 

[NeonSturm]

I have read your reply and you said that you are open to suggestions for component names. I don't know if I am the only one in this, but I think names like "Parsen Storage Node, Nocx Storage Node" are quite... meaningless? Obviously it's high-tech futuristic stuff, but perhaps it would be better if component names were more "relatable"? Like, iron bolts, steel plates, copper tubes, or in a way that is more adjusted to the current materials it could be Jisper plates, Hital framework, Parstun springs.

Then the more advanced components could be "x engine" "y piston" "z lever", from which you would craft something that makes sense.

I don't know what you guys think, but I am unable to remember any of the recipes, because all the blocks seem the same to me.

What do you think?

True, but keeping names similar makes it easier to remember components.

I am fine with both, but would appreciate something that makes sense with an appendix which let you guess what is needed to craft it (without looking up recipes first).
If it does not get too long.

I find the new crafting system an improvement over the old recipe one for sure. But after taking a good look at it, it is just a bit less horrible in terms of economics then the previous one.

Crafting/refining/ ... the basic materials to get the factory, refinery and the assembler is somewhat time consuming and even a bit pointless. what I mean by pointless is that you might aswell strip a station, sell those parts and buy all the factory stuff from the shops. You make money, don't waist time on building all that stuff and it's way less boring.

The lack of an infrastructure like pipes, tubes, ... or any type of needed support blocks to make it work or connect factories with eachother is somewhat of a letdown imo (not that it was their before but still). You got no challange what so ever with setting up a factory, no satisfaction seeing it work nor a sense of accomplishment.

The next thing is the crafting and gathering resources. Sound fun and awesome ... but seeing a huge pile or resources turn into a handfull of blocks, just to come to the realization you got to repeat that proces endlessly just to acquire a decent amount of blocks is ... depressing.

So making anything els except faction blocks is pointless. You can even skip all the basic productions by buying all the needed materials for the final step for under 5000 credits/factionblock in shops while after 1 production step you got a + 200000 credits/block, a gain of 4000% and + in credits. After that you can just spawn in resource/hull/... blueprints with the credits.

I made a suggestion thread which suggests using rotation, activation and 2 hp bits differently dependent on block ID.
http://starmadedock.net/threads/1-byte-for-8-sub-blocks-shape-and-byte-logic.2395/

That would allow for a structural block where you can inject power, logic-cables, etc...
Basically 1 block for 8 different things (or 6 if you allow rgb light: 111=white, 000=disabled, 100=red set-able by logic)
More details per 1m^3 (compensation for the only downside of StarMade to Space-Engineers or Untold-Universe)

I don't know if that satisfies you, but if it is possible, it uses memory very efficient (one of the key features of StarMade)