New crafting system discussion

[flpsantoss]

the only problem so far is to make a automatic factory, you can make simple chains like imbued crystals, but when you go to some higher tiers you will need to make things bye hand.

I would suggest add a separator block that can say how much of each block can go to the next factory, so you can say you want 12 hattel capsule go to Micro factory and 24 to Macro.

 

[Inspired2150]

the only problem so far is to make a automatic factory, you can make simple chains like imbued crystals, but when you go to some higher tiers you will need to make things bye hand.

I would suggest add a separator block that can say how much of each block can go to the next factory, so you can say you want 12 hattel capsule go to Micro factory and 24 to Macro.

Yup, it is currently a massive issue when crafting anything. Everything needs to be made manually. I think a seperator block isnt even necessary - you can simply prevent factories from pulling more resources than is needed to craft one item at a time. At the moment if a factory is set to produce stone hammers (sudden analogy) it will pull every single stone out of the entire production chain even if there are no sticks to make the hammer. And because all the stones have been drained the other factories have no free stones to nake pillows out of. And that is just unnecessary evil.

 

[Byamarro]

Damn I love Tekkit. And I'm great fan of way how Starmade is developed now. I hope that crafting system will be thread of few next updates to make it even more detailed and cool. :P

 

[Ozwart]

Imo the game shouldnt have a craft only mod but be more like minecraft with no shop or next to no shop, and you craft or salvage what you need.
I dont see the point of a crafting system if you can easily buy everything. Imo only certain block should be in shop all the other must be crafted.

 

[flpsantoss]

Yup, it is currently a massive issue when crafting anything. Everything needs to be made manually. I think a seperator block isnt even necessary - you can simply prevent factories from pulling more resources than is needed to craft one item at a time. At the moment if a factory is set to produce stone hammers (sudden analogy) it will pull every single stone out of the entire production chain even if there are no sticks to make the hammer. And because all the stones have been drained the other factories have no free stones to nake pillows out of. And that is just unnecessary evil.

Another thing is a button for how many to produce, because some blocks need more from a item than others, but this way we will have to always go to the bock and say how many blocks it has to make.

I know Schema, Calbiri and others devs ant testers are working to improve that

 

[Khlorghaal]

As someone who loves to obsess over tech trees and economic optimization, I hated the idea of recipes because it ruins all of that.
Getting rid of recipes is one of the best things to happen to SM.

Asynchronous resource use is easily fixed by just making a storage for each of your chains. Distinguish horizontal production from vertical production. If you want to manufacture everything, It'll require you either make a really complicated factory or constantly micro resources.
I think manufacturing being complex is rather good as it encourages trading and specialization between players which is what makes many games interesting.

 

[NeonSturm]

I think manufacturing being complex is rather good as it encourages trading and specialization between players which is what makes many games interesting

+1

As much as I like things similar to the slave-idea for less blocks (and thus less inventory required) or one assembler (macro) for almost everything, I think it is too easy to just change products when you need something else.

Real industrial machines are built for just one product category - that makes them effective.
You can't just change a setting or add another worker or change the arrangement of machinery to produce computer-stuff instead of fast-food in tin cans.

Nothing against 1 of any if you manually switch build modes and are able to oder just a few blocks (1-10) each time ...
... for 1 per sec automatically, I would like each sector(station) being able to only produce 1 product type (or 1 more for each planet segment) at a time.
Having 1 big invincible faction base being able to refine and process just anything feels wrong.

 

[jayman38]

A quick idea as food for thought:

Be careful when making real-life comparisons. Real-life 3-D printing is going to change the real industrial game. I think your argument about not being able to simply changing settings is soon to be overturned. Naturally, it won't be quite as disruptive as all the 3-D printing proponents suggest, but it will change things. Now let's fast-forward into the "World of Tomorrow", where theoretical nanobots can make food out of garbage. One setting change later and you are making computer parts instead of food. Right now, we don't have any scientific proof that nanobots won't work. The question then becomes "how far into the future is StarMade"? I think it's pretty far out.

 

[Crimson-Artist]

+1

As much as I like things similar to the slave-idea for less blocks (and thus less inventory required) or one assembler (macro) for almost everything, I think it is too easy to just change products when you need something else.

Real industrial machines are built for just one product category - that makes them effective.
You can't just change a setting or add another worker or change the arrangement of machinery to produce computer-stuff instead of fast-food in tin cans.

Nothing against 1 of any if you manually switch build modes and are able to oder just a few blocks (1-10) each time ...
... for 1 per sec automatically, I would like each sector(station) being able to only produce 1 product type (or 1 more for each planet segment) at a time.
Having 1 big invincible faction base being able to refine and process just anything feels wrong.

agreed. If we could find a way to merge the schematic system from the old system with the new crafting method. we could have that specialization of labor.

all factories start with basic crafting recipes. basically just "factory, micro factory, refinery, and ship core" thats it. from there players will have to get schematics of other blocks in order to make them.
schematics will be a kind of consumable that when placed in factories they give that factory the ability to produce that block. not sure if using the "trade x amount of blocks to get a schematic" should remain though.

 

[Inspired2150]

As someone who loves to obsess over tech trees and economic optimization, I hated the idea of recipes because it ruins all of that.
Getting rid of recipes is one of the best things to happen to SM.

Asynchronous resource use is easily fixed by just making a storage for each of your chains. Distinguish horizontal production from vertical production. If you want to manufacture everything, It'll require you either make a really complicated factory or constantly micro resources.
I think manufacturing being complex is rather good as it encourages trading and specialization between players which is what makes many games interesting.

Granted, however, one should distinguish necessary complexity from the utter impossibility of producing certain objects effectively. I have given the Bobby AI example previously, which I think is a perfect embodiment of the faults within the current production system. I think the crafting system in Factorio (for those who played it) is made perfectly. You have a clear "hierarchy" of materials used in the production chain: unrefined resources - refined resources - components - more advanced components - final product, which in no way, shape or form simplifies it. I think the way crafting system currently works in Starmade is lackluster - There is no reason why simple refined materials (capsules) should be used in the final stages of production of high-tech blocks, it makes no sense. It's the equivalent of using copper ingots in the production of smartphones.

 

[NeonSturm]

A quick idea as food for thought:

Be careful when making real-life comparisons. Real-life 3-D printing is going to change the real industrial game. I think your argument about not being able to simply changing settings is soon to be overturned. Naturally, it won't be quite as disruptive as all the 3-D printing proponents suggest, but it will change things. Now let's fast-forward into the "World of Tomorrow", where theoretical nanobots can make food out of garbage. One setting change later and you are making computer parts instead of food. Right now, we don't have any scientific proof that nanobots won't work. The question then becomes "how far into the future is StarMade"? I think it's pretty far out.

True, but do we want a single nano-bot being able to re-create itself just by a setting change? I guess we would have different nano-bots with different purposes and -maybe- one type to combine their (obviously very unnatural) products.
Personally, I would like the freedom of being able to create everything you need yourself (in the real world), but what would then be valuable? space? matter? energy? likes on facebook? How do you increase your wealth without taking something from others? Do you have a chance to have everything owning more or less equal value or one owning a whole country?

Even if it will be done in the real world's future, is it a desire-able for game-balance?

We don't want an invincible faction home, which when destroyed make everybody cry can produce everything. We want players to interact and wars to hurt both parties without one losing everything to a single attacker.

Inspired2150 true, but again - is it still desirable when you think about how the game is played with your suggestion came true?

I try to say "I would like if" instead of "it should" when I don't know how it will affect the game or what else is able to replace it without making the game-play worse.

 

[Khlorghaal]

Oh Ideas!
Have a universal assembler, which can produce anything in one step from base resources, but is wasteful and more expensive to buy.
Fabricator, can make anything using money(?) as input (Mining causes severe deflation though. Damned fiat currency.), very slow and inefficient.

That represents how nanites and printing would work irl. They can produce anything and are extremely convenient for niche-ondemand items. But macroscopic manufacturing is necessarily cheaper, more energy efficient, and faster.
Specialized nanites would be pointless for anything thats doesn't have nanoscale features.

 

[jayman38]

Yeah, the devs might (read: will) have to break from realism to enforce fun in some cases. Heaven forbid in-game toilets become a gameplay requirement! I do not want in-game bathroom breaks.

 

[Inspired2150]

enforce fun

That combination of words is funny and sad at the same time.

 

[jayman38]

That combination of words is funny and sad at the same time.

You will have fun and like it! Any disagreement and you will be reassigned to the Kindergarden Re-education camp. Further non-fun outbursts will be dealt with in the harshest possible manner! :p

 

[NeonSturm]

You will have fun and like it! Any disagreement and you will be reassigned to the Kindergarden Re-education camp. Further non-fun outbursts will be dealt with in the harshest possible manner! :p

I agree ... I have to

 

[aceface]

I think they need to make it so that you need fewer resources to craft something and that you receive more when crafting, much like making a tree trunk into planks like in minecraft. You need so much to craft a simple hardened hull for example.

 

[flpsantoss]

I think they need to make it so that you need fewer resources to craft something and that you receive more when crafting, much like making a tree trunk into planks like in minecraft. You need so much to craft a simple hardened hull for example.

As you said yourself you need much things for a hardened hull, why not? It is a block with way more hit points than normal hull, so many people use it to make small ships. i am not saying the recipes is at the best right now, i expect some very big changes to some factory chains.

 

[NeonSturm]

I would like some waste-products - Examples:
X shards -> power cell (0% charge) -> power cell (10% charge) -> ... -> power cell (100% charge).
10 unqualified circuit components -> 5 broken + 5 qualified circuit components
5 broken circuit components + power cell (100% charge) -> 5 qualified circuit components

Not everything is perfect when made out of natural things and for some production steps you should need more power. Creating a loop with differently charged power cells could be a good way to implement it (by admins / community) without having to change the code.

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I like valuable blocks, but it seems so ... logic breaking, that a whole planet or asteroid gives so few logic blocks (and not only logic blocks)

 

[whiterhino16]

As it turns out, capsule refinerys can make many different types at once. THAT IS AWESOME.