Planned More Rail Dockers: Ship, Turret, and Ship Part.

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    Preface:
    The basic idea is that we can split the rail docker into a couple different blocks. Each one will behave differently in some respect, including the physics calculations they require (one big thing they generally have in common is to not need to worry about physics calculations with the parent entity except while moving).

    The type of rail docker a vessel uses to dock to a mother ship will determine which type of docked entity it is. I will list each one's features here.

    The Ship Part type in particular (as defined later in the post) can be potentially used in interesting ways, such as having detachable command bridges or jump drives.

    Edit: Existing rail dockers would be converted to Ship Rail Dockers. Existing ships would thus need to quickly undock, re-fit, and re-dock their turrets and other non-ships upon this being patched.



    Ship Rail Docker: Used for docking ships to your vessel.
    -Receives full protection from mothership (or station) shields.
    -Receives full protection from mothership radar jammers, cloaking, etc.
    -Mass of the docked ship is merged with the mothership while docked (this affects jump drives, jammers, thrust, etc).
    -Active AI modules will remain active, but will not actually do anything. Upon undocking, an active AI will begin controlling it as it normally would. Optionally, they may first try to fly straight forward a bit first, which could be useful for allowing them to exit the vessel without hassel.
    -Cannot fire weapons or support system beams while docked (so no logic-powered guns).
    -Can receive power generation from the mother entity, one-way only. Both vessels do NOT share power capacity however, and the parent vessel only gives it energy if its own power storage is full.
    -Collision physics with the mothership/station are only run while the entity is moving (i.e. on a rail). Physics with other entities are run as normal.


    When Ship Docker or Rail has been destroyed:
    -The docked entity will detach and become a separate entity, as if it were undocked. If it has an enabled AI, then this too begins acting as if it were undocked.



    Turret Rail Docker: Used for docking turrets (or pieces of them for multi-part ones).
    -Receives partial protection from mothership shields. Can be damaged when mothership shields are reduced, much like current docks can.
    -Receives full protection from mothership jamming, cloaks, etc.
    -Mass of the docked ship is merged with the mothership while docked (this affects jump drives, jammers, thrust, etc).
    -Collision physics with mothership/station is only run while entity is moving (i.e. on a rail).
    -Can receive energy generation from the mothership one-way, and also shares energy capacity with it (preferring to use the mothership's power capacity over its own).
    -Enabled AI blocks on turrets treat their entity as a turret.

    New options: The main ship's options will include the following new features:
    -The ability to set all turrets into one of three modes (this can also be selected individually by turret).
    Mode 1: On (enables AI blocks on turrets).
    Mode 2: Off (turns off AI blocks on turrets).
    Mode 3: Manual (turrets will attempt to aim at where you are currently aiming, and their AI modules will target whatever you have targeted).
    -if the ability to fire multiple weapons at once is ever implimented, then turrets in manual mode could be linked with other weapons, and would fire whenever they are able to fire in the direction you are telling your weapons to shoot it.

    When Turret Docker or Rail has been destroyed:

    -Turret does NOT undock from the mothership, and remains at its current location relative to the mothership.
    -Turret becomes locked in its current orientation. Because it is no longer moving, it no longer worries about collision physics with the mothership (it does still collide with other entities though).
    -The turret is no longer able to share energy or capacity with the mothership. It remains capable of using its own power generation and capacity, and if it still has its AI block can still shoot if something happens to fly in its (now limited) firing arc.



    Ship Part Rail Docker: Used to attach moving structural parts to vessels.
    -Is fully protected by mothership shields, jammer, cloakers, etc.
    -Energy generation and capacity is fully merged with the mothership's (so when in build mode for the mothership, you will see the stats as if they were part of the mothership).
    -Shield generation and capacity is fully merged with that of the mothership. This means it effectively has no shields of its own, since they now belong to the parent entity, and will start taking damage the same time the rest of the mothership does.
    -Thrust from thrusters if fully merged with that of the mothership.
    -Structural and system HP is fully merged with that of the mothership (as such, they cannot overheat alone while docked. It does however remember its default values, and undocking a badly damaged part could result in you instantly overheating said part and needing to reboot it).
    -Obviously, mass and volume are also merged, so the parent vessel will need to worry about Ship Parts when charging jump drives, etc.
    -Are destroyed when the mothership's overheat countdown finishes.
    -Weapons or other systems on the ship part can be assigned to the mothership's number bar as if they were the mothership's weapons.
    -However, you cannot link systems across the dock (so a weapons computer on the docked entity can ONLY be connected to weapons blocks on the same entity, and same for the parent vessel))
    -An active AI module would act as if it were controlling the mothership.
    -When in the Ship Part's core, you gain the mothership's number/ability bar, and your controls are linked to the mothership. This means you can use a smaller vessel to control a larger one as some form of detachable bridge.

    -You cannot dock a Ship Part to a parent vessel unless you have permission to actually operate the parent vessel.
    -Physics collisions ignore the parent vessel except when it is moving (i.e. along a rail or something)

    Edit: (potentially optional) Since a ship part can be considered part of the ship, the parent ship's weapons would pass through it like it would any other part of the parent ship (and vice versa, in the event the ship part has weapons)

    Edit: Ship parts do not need to show up on the HUD. There could be a toggle for them that defaults to "off" though, in case someone does for some reason want to see them in a particular situation.

    -(Optional but would be useful): When in build mode on the mothership, a key or advanced build mode option would allow you to switch between the main ship and each docked Ship Part, allowing you to easily modify the attached parts.


    When a Ship Part Rail Docker (or its rail) is destroyed:
    -The Ship Part is no longer able to move and is effectively "jammed in place," but remains attached to the vessel.
    -Since it is not moving, it doesn't worry about collisions with the parent vessel.
    -All shared resources, energy/shield generation, structure HP, and etc are still shared.
    -(Optional): However, upon the docker or its active rail block being destroyed, the vessel's merged structural and system HP may take some damage. Perhaps something like 10% of what the docked ship part contributes to the total? This represents the fact that a structural weak point may have been damaged, and adds a minor drawback to simply using the convenience of easily replaceable armor plates for a vessel instead of giving it "built-in" armor.


    (Optional) For ALL docker types: Basically something that could help a ship "remember" that it has a jammed turret/ship block, so it doesn't spontaneously detach them.
    -When destroyed, dockers are no longer removed from the ship. Instead, they act similarly to a "destroyed" ship core. Damage and shots will pass through them, but they will not disappear.
    -A destroyed docker of the non-ship variety can be used to undock, but cannot be used to dock.
    -A destroyed docker will not give you a part when removed.
    -(optional, but useful) A docker of the same type can be used to repair the destroyed one without need for removal and replacement, therefor allowing you to make the repair without undocking an attached turret or ship part (is a moot point for ships since those would still undock).



    Other notes:
    -When I say "does not worry about colliding with parent vessel," I mean with the parent vessel itself. It still can collide with other docked objects on the parent vessel.
    -When I say it only worries about collision physics when moving, this also means "when it has received instructions to start moving."
    -In the event the developer is fine with "docked reactors," then Ship Parts could be permitted to have their own separate softcap when their power generation is merged. Otherwise, the softcap would be applied after merging to prevent such exploits.
     
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    Crimson-Artist

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    awesome idea! I actually had a very similar idea that involved slaving docked entities using the weapons menu but i think this is actually more practical.

    If theres one thing I would add is that ship part dockers will make the ship core of the docked entity disappear. Its incredible annoying to have a bazilion ship core icons on my screen that are all apart of one ship.

    I'll submit this idea to the council.
     

    Lecic

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    -Cannot fire weapons or support system beams while docked (so no logic-powered guns).
    I assume this is an attempt to remove docked reactors, but why? You cannot remove them without a replacement system in place, and...

    -Energy generation and capacity is fully merged with the mothership's (so when in build mode for the mothership, you will see the stats as if they were part of the mothership).
    ...sounds like an incredibly boring solution that would be incredibly overpowered, since it would be way more efficient than docked reactors, which are less efficient block per block due to the extra blocks of capacity and power transfer needed, as well as the power loss during the transfer.

    It will also not remove docked weapons, which will actually be buffed by this, since you'll no longer be able to shoot a docked weapon off, and it will have more shield sharing. You're just moving docked weapons from being docked to rails to having them docked to turret docks and having their rotation locked by blocks.

    Additionally, what you want done with "docked parts" would be better served by a new set of rails instead of new rail dockers, since it wouldn't require the replacement of EVERY SINGLE RAIL DOCKER ON EVERY SINGLE TURRET EVER.
     
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    There is still simply no good reason for docked "ship parts" to be a thing.

    If the argument is that "they're necessary for large ships" or whatever then why not just balance the things that make them a necessity?

    If the argument is that "complicated building techniques should be rewarded" then why not add some gimmick like the one that power generators have, but make it part of the actual ship and not docked?
     
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    There is still simply no good reason for docked "ship parts" to be a thing.
    Doors, ramps, landing gear, radar dishes, ... all show up as docked entities which they shouldn't, and contribute to collision detection lag, which they shouldn't either.
     
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    One type I'd love to see would be a non-physical docker; this would solve a lot of headaches with landing gears and extending docking collars.
     
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    Napther

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    -When destroyed, dockers are no longer removed from the ship. Instead, they act similarly to a "destroyed" ship core. Damage and shots will pass through them, but they will not disappear.
    I'd be happy with a balanced version of this. at the moment the most significant combat lag is because of peoples stuff being expelled in the dozens by a unlucky Missile-Pulse strike and then that ship proceeding to cause a "Scorched Earth" effect and ruin the rest of the battel or bring down the server its on.

    everything else mentioned is very iffy, especially forcing everyone ever to replace their turret docks and such in particular.
     
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    awesome idea! I actually had a very similar idea that involved slaving docked entities using the weapons menu but i think this is actually more practical.

    If theres one thing I would add is that ship part dockers will make the ship core of the docked entity disappear. Its incredible annoying to have a bazilion ship core icons on my screen that are all apart of one ship.

    I'll submit this idea to the council.
    You could have turrets, docked ships, and ship parts each have their own toggle in the menu where you choose what stuff shows up on your HUD. So if you want to only see turrets, you could disable the HUD boxes for ship parts and docked ships (of course, once undocked, formerly docked ships would appear as normal).



    I'd be happy with a balanced version of this. at the moment the most significant combat lag is because of peoples stuff being expelled in the dozens by a unlucky Missile-Pulse strike and then that ship proceeding to cause a "Scorched Earth" effect and ruin the rest of the battel or bring down the server its on.

    everything else mentioned is very iffy, especially forcing everyone ever to replace their turret docks and such in particular.
    The process would basically be this:

    1. Load up a ship.
    2. Enter each docked entity that is a turret or ship part.
    3. Undock it.
    4. Find where you put the rail docker and replace it with a turret docker/ship part docker, OR just add a turret/ship part docker period (you can have more than one type of docking thing per ship, because you have to use a specific one of them to dock, so you don't actually need to remove the Rail Docker that is now a Ship Rail Docker).
    5. Hit your weapons menu and add the turret docker to the hotbar.
    6. Select the turret docker and use it to dock to where you had the turret before.

    If you have a lot of turrets, this could be a bit of a hassle. However, they could add a warning message that says "a ship is docked on a rail part with turret-related rails." And even in the event of two-part turrets, you could update one of them and simply remove the rest, after which you could blueprint it and just spawn the rest back in fresh.

    The alternative is to have the game play a complicated guessing game to update blueprints, where it replaces the docker with one of the three based on what it sees (i.e. if it sees the rail parts used for turrets, then it would replace the docked entity's block with a Turret Rail Docker). This would potentially be prone to errors though, and I can't think of any way for the game to guess between it being a docked ship or a ship part when trying to update the blueprint.
    .
     

    Edymnion

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    There is still simply no good reason for docked "ship parts" to be a thing.
    There is no good reason for having multiple colored hulls, multiple colored lights, slabs, decorative panels, etc.

    None of that is required for the game.

    Just because you don't see the benefit of a decorative or stylistic element doesn't mean it doesn't have one.
     
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    Doors, ramps, landing gear, radar dishes, ... all show up as docked entities which they shouldn't, and contribute to collision detection lag, which they shouldn't either.
    There is no good reason for having multiple colored hulls, multiple colored lights, slabs, decorative panels, etc.

    None of that is required for the game.

    Just because you don't see the benefit of a decorative or stylistic element doesn't mean it doesn't have one.
    You both missed the point entirely
    9-block rail doors do not cause lag when they get undocked
    20000 block power generators crash servers when they get undocked

    rail landing gear do not offer an advantage in combat
    docked shield recharger generators are practically an exploit
     
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    Docked ship parts are also useful for anyone who wants moving parts.

    For instance, elevators on larger ships are frequently such parts. As are the "reactors" some people use. There are also things like extendable landing gear, or ship transformations that open up a cockpit or rotate the engines.

    Currently, such parts are actually a disadvantage because the parent ship's shields only protect them to a certain point, at which point those elements start taking damage even if your shields are still up.

    Heck, the way the ship parts work would allow you to slap your weapons on pop-out segments.
     
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    Currently, such parts are actually a disadvantage because the parent ship's shields only protect them to a certain point, at which point those elements start taking damage even if your shields are still up.
    Actually, these things are currently a massive advantage because they allow someone to bypass the diminishing returns from thrusters (using docked thrusters), the diminishing power returns from power reactors (through docked reactors) and to completely remove the "under fire shield recharge penalty" with docked shield rechargers.
     
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    You could have turrets, docked ships, and ship parts each have their own toggle in the menu where you choose what stuff shows up on your HUD. So if you want to only see turrets, you could disable the HUD boxes for ship parts and docked ships (of course, once undocked, formerly docked ships would appear as normal).
    These are already in-game, so there is no need to add them. They are accessed via the Navigation window by pressing the Nav Filter button. You get a dialog box with various checkboxes in it, among others, there are checkboxes for "Docked" and "Turrets". These can be used to enable and disable various Nav markers in the game.
     
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    [...] dialog box with various checkboxes in it, among others, there are checkboxes for "Docked" and "Turrets". These can be used to enable and disable various Nav markers in the game.
    True, but the one thing you can't do is keep your doors etc. from showing up on everybody else's nav HUD. I'd like such an option that allows me to see ships docked to a station or each other, but I don't want to see every door or landing leg. I don't think it is programmatically feasible to determine whether something is a ship or a landing leg, other than having either a special docker or a special core for that purpose.
     

    Crimson-Artist

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    You could have turrets, docked ships, and ship parts each have their own toggle in the menu where you choose what stuff shows up on your HUD. So if you want to only see turrets, you could disable the HUD boxes for ship parts and docked ships (of course, once undocked, formerly docked ships would appear as normal).
    .
    we already have that with the nav menu but my point was to help unclutter the HUD by removing rail parts that serve only one function and are never meant to be undocked. To me removing intermediary rail entities from the HUD would make ships feel much more cohesive like you are looking at 1 ship instead of a dozen.
     
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    In that case, let me throw another edit onto the "ship part" section.
     
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    My thought is: When the docker is destroyed (On any of these) whatever it is immediately stops functioning completely. No firing for turrets, no power generation for docked reactors.

    Also, power generators docked with this system should definitely obey the softcap as if they were a part of the mothership (As in, after 2 million e/sec total between all entities, everything loses efficiency, just as if all the power generators were one single system).

    This system is nice in that it would allow for interchangeable parts of ships, such as a do-it-all vessel that can carry a hangar one mission, mining drones the next, and a missile launcher after that, all without needing a complete shipyard refit or logic shenanigans.
     

    NeonSturm

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    OP:
    Edit: Existing rail dockers would be converted to Ship Rail Dockers. Existing ships would thus need to quickly undock, re-fit, and re-dock their turrets and other non-ships upon this being patched.
    Can be changed for entities docked to turret-axis rails - this would save some effort.
    RE:
    1) I like all of the OP, except that the multiple dockers will raise a lot of questions from newbies.

    2) Docked ships which are under attack could use an emergency-shootout rail to avoid collision lag when their docker is destroyed.

    3) I would simply dock ships with a ship-part docker so that they can lend weapons, power and thrust to the main vessel.

    4) How would ship-parts undock if their docker is over-written by the ship's hotkey bar?
    You cold reserve one hotkey-slot for the docker maybe.​
     
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    Lukwan

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    We could accommodate all the rail-door and other moving greeblies with the addition of three useful technical blocks:

    -Hinge blocks.

    -Slider-blocks.

    -Greebly-rotator.

    How they would actually function is just a matter of engineering but the main idea is this: they link movable parts that are essentially the same entity (share a single core). No weapons would be permitted on the moving part so as to avoid potential exploits.

    Technical blocks would be worth adding because they would allow the following greeblies to exist without extra cores:

    -Landing gear.
    -Radar dish.
    -Sliding doors.
    -Extendable antennas, platforms, lances ,hulls etc.
    -Robotic limbs. (Mechs anyone?)
    -Elevators/Funicular.
    -Roller coasters?
    -Oblique lighting effects.
     
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