Read by Schine Mobile Shipyards (shipyards on ships)

[NorseEngineer]

I've only read the first and last 2 pages, but yeah I'd also like the nomadic play-style, even though I'm used to having a nice station, that I don't mind to be broken.
a way to allow stationblocks on capitalships could be to use the deathstar-core and say it's static until it has a certain mass, and then further limit shipyards by saying that they can only have a size depending on the longest dimension, for example if it's 640m long, the three dimensions of the shipyard couldn't exceed 64m.
as for factory balance it could simply be that it limits the movement, for example if they remove 10% of thrust and topspeed, and then when turned on it'll further reduce it by 40-50%, so that a mothership would move at 36-45% while the factories are in use.
numbers used are of course just examples, and should be in server cfg.

 

[Blaza612]

I've only read the first and last 2 pages, but yeah I'd also like the nomadic play-style, even though I'm used to having a nice station, that I don't mind to be broken.
a way to allow stationblocks on capitalships could be to use the deathstar-core and say it's static until it has a certain mass, and then further limit shipyards by saying that they can only have a size depending on the longest dimension, for example if it's 640m long, the three dimensions of the shipyard couldn't exceed 64m.
as for factory balance it could simply be that it limits the movement, for example if they remove 10% of thrust and topspeed, and then when turned on it'll further reduce it by 40-50%, so that a mothership would move at 36-45% while the factories are in use.
numbers used are of course just examples, and should be in server cfg.

For a way to get to capital ships, I would suggest having a look at my Core Overhaul suggestion, as it provides a way to get to capital ships, cargo, stations and components for stations using a ship core at first.

I would also suggest NOT having the speed reduction. Capital ships are already going to have to be bloody big, and having the capital ship systems will only add to that, thus making it really slow from the get-go. Adding more of a speed debuff will make them practically unusable as a capital ship, because you want your factories to be producing/refining while you're flying in between ore sites.

Vive la revolution!

 

[GRHayes]

Part of the concern is that placing space station services onto a ship means the entire game can be played without owning a permanent base. Space stations should be a more efficient place to use factories, claim territory, and build ships. If shipyards, among other systems, are placed onto a ship there needs to be a balancing factor which is why they are not in yet.

The thing is you already have the two greatest balancing factors. You can't claim territory using a ship and a ship can't act as home base.

As it is a planet compare to a space station already is a bad choice. You can put a lot more power in a space station than you can in a planet with ease. You can dock to a space station. Unless a requirement for food and farming is put in some how requiring a planet planets really are food for salvage beams.

That BTW would add an entire new factor to game play especially if you had pirates, aliens and creature/monsters trying to raid you for supplies. It would give something to do in between PVP.

 

[Hemmingfish]

I would love for shipyards on ships, as well as undeathinators and factories. As has been said before in the thread, having no homebase protection and no territory claiming from a ship is a Big Deal. Not only are you vulnerable at all times, if you're on multiplayer your ship is even vulnerable when you're not there (Unless docked to a homebase, but personally I think that goes against the whole point of being a nomad). There's already enough risk without adding arbitrary penalties on top of it.

People want to be nomads, including me and this game does its best to force us onto stations. For a supposed sandbox game, it feels very much like you're forced into a specific play style.

 

[Drakkart]

I would love for shipyards on ships, as well as undeathinators and factories. As has been said before in the thread, having no homebase protection and no territory claiming from a ship is a Big Deal. Not only are you vulnerable at all times, if you're on multiplayer your ship is even vulnerable when you're not there (Unless docked to a homebase, but personally I think that goes against the whole point of being a nomad). There's already enough risk without adding arbitrary penalties on top of it.

People want to be nomads, including me and this game does its best to force us onto stations. For a supposed sandbox game, it feels very much like you're forced into a specific play style.

That guy got it! That is what i am talking about the game is not supposed to force us into playstyles it is supposed to give us the freedom of do whatever we wish for! Yes maybe it is not as advantageous as another way, still if i decide to play along that style a sandbox game is supposed to let me, In starmade's case because all the sci-fi movies we watch also work that way or did you ever see cptn kirk muttering something about: "Naw sorry, we can't do that, because we need a station to do that." babylon 5, serenity, stargate, battlestar galactica, star wars any series some guy mentioning like "nope sorry ships won't do the trick we need a station to do that..." i don't!

 

[Gunmetalmonk]

As noted, it is easily exploitable. It would work if a ship with factories on it could not dock to anything. Now you have a mobile base. Seems a hot topic, so perhaps different servers? PvP vs PvE, sorta...

 

[dwwojcik]

If I were Schema, this is how I would do it:

Shipyards on ships would be allowed. Obviously, a shipyard cannot make something as large as itself, so there's no worry of self-replicating capital ships which I think would be a bad idea. However, as a "safety feature", all ship construction would be paused if the ship isn't perfectly still, takes damage, or has a charged or partially charged jump drive. This way you'd be able to replenish your fleet and fighter wings between battles, but you wouldn't be able to spam out drones during the battle itself. Shipyard computers and enhancers would be heavier than most blocks, not prohibitively heavy, but enough to encourage shipyards to be conservatively sized. The same would apply for factories, I think.

Jump gates would still be a station exclusive. Also, shipyards and factories on stations would be quicker and wouldn't stop if the station takes damage, because they are much more stable and don't require "safety circuitry".

The way I see it, mobile shipyards just save time and effort. There's nothing stopping nomads from expanding their fleet now, they just have to manually build all the ships which obviously is a pain.

I think this way would make the nomads happy, while still covering the major potential sources of abuse.

 

[cyberus111]

Ummm .. A shipyard can make something as large as the ship as its on if you think about it ...

.... rail rotating X-axis arms would allow the arms to be folded either along the ships Z-axis or totally around to over the ship carrying the yard. Rails would also allow the C-arcs of the yard to be collapsed along the Z-axis.

However I do like the rest of the "Safety Features" :D

 

[dwwojcik]

Ummm .. A shipyard can make something as large as the ship as its on if you think about it ...

.... rail rotating X-axis arms would allow the arms to be folded either along the ships Z-axis or totally around to over the ship carrying the yard. Rails would also allow the C-arcs of the yard to be collapsed along the Z-axis.

However I do like the rest of the "Safety Features" :D

I didn't think Shipyards could have the arms on separate docked ships.

 

[Blaza612]

If I were Schema, this is how I would do it:

Shipyards on ships would be allowed. Obviously, a shipyard cannot make something as large as itself, so there's no worry of self-replicating capital ships which I think would be a bad idea. However, as a "safety feature", all ship construction would be paused if the ship isn't perfectly still, takes damage, or has a charged or partially charged jump drive. This way you'd be able to replenish your fleet and fighter wings between battles, but you wouldn't be able to spam out drones during the battle itself. Shipyard computers and enhancers would be heavier than most blocks, not prohibitively heavy, but enough to encourage shipyards to be conservatively sized. The same would apply for factories, I think.

Jump gates would still be a station exclusive. Also, shipyards and factories on stations would be quicker and wouldn't stop if the station takes damage, because they are much more stable and don't require "safety circuitry".

The way I see it, mobile shipyards just save time and effort. There's nothing stopping nomads from expanding their fleet now, they just have to manually build all the ships which obviously is a pain.

I think this way would make the nomads happy, while still covering the major potential sources of abuse.

We've been over this already, a number of times actually. To summarize: No because it makes capital ships not viable for an actual home.

 

[Kenshkrix]

I think that the cargo overhauls will solve most of the problems with mobile bases being OP.
If a mobile shipyard requires enough volume/mass/resources it would be highly specialized, at which point the balance is that your shipyard has compromised its offensive and/or defensive systems and can't be directly competitive in its own weight class.

There are many ways of limiting mobile bases but reaching a good balance is very hard and many seem to be erring on the side of over-nerfing.
About the only thing I'd suggest as a straightforward change is to limit jump-drive usage on a ship running an active shipyard, though I'm not sure how that should be applied.

 

[dwwojcik]

We've been over this already, a number of times actually. To summarize: No because it makes capital ships not viable for an actual home.

Honestly I don't see why this would be the case. You can build anything you want as long as its smaller than the shipyard, and all you have to do is stop, stay still, and not get attacked. Other than that, it's a completely functional ship. Perfectly viable.

 

[lilheartless]

Honestly I don't see why this would be the case. You can build anything you want as long as its smaller than the shipyard, and all you have to do is stop, stay still, and not get attacked. Other than that, it's a completely functional ship. Perfectly viable.

there is absolutely 0 reason to nerf shipyard or factory systems on a ship at all they should be allowed on ships and they should function the same way they function on a station. Stations suck, they are trash, they are completely useless save for the fact that there are blocks you can ONLY put on them, what does that tell you ..... STATIONS need buffs and shipyards need some tuning in general but they do not need to be nerfed cause they are on a ship its just that simple.

The only thing that I don't think should be a thing is 2 way warp gates on ships that imo doesn't make logical sense you should be able to travel from the ships warpgate too wherever but i'm not really sure how you could logically get back to the ship if its moving.

 

[shadowulf]

Guys, shipyards already have drawbacks. Putting a shipyard on a ship will increase overall mass, further dropping acceleration, put more power strain on the ship, and to build something large enough to escort/fight other ships would mean sacrificing space if internal, or risking damage if external. On the other hand, it seems Schine wants stations. So, to keep the balance, as stated several times already, buff the stations. Give them a power, shield/armor, weapon range/damage boosts, and the ability to activate scanners and jump inhibiters just like ships, maybe from the build block (?).


TL:DR- You guys need to not look at debuffing mobile shipyards, but buffing stations.

 

[Nickizzy]

Shipyards/Factories on Ships Should:

A. Not allow customization. This would mean you would need designs and plans beforehand, and couldn't build on the fly(like research in homeworld) you would need to plop down a station or land on a planet and make a large shipyard in order to make new designs. Already there are technical debuffs to having shipyards on ships.

You need a large interior space to have the outline, you need to protect the important blocks, (as of the cargo update) you would need the storage to make any size of ship, you would need to satisfy the power requirements, you would need to add more thrusters to move the ship with the added mass from cargo and shipyards and ships(and possibly station blocks having a massive mass increase when put on ships, making them slow and bulky), more shields to protect your now huge mothership, a fleet to protect it, the resources to build everything, and the resources to sustain it.

Stations could be buffed anyway, maybe giving them extra power, shield, construction, and factory bonuses. Like in space engineers, your small ship cannot have a refinery, but your station can, and your large ship as well. Shipyards could have to be placed on ships of a certain mass or greater, and would place less blocks per second, cost more energy, and (maybe) have less options like not being able to test a design, create one, or edit it. Shipyard-Ships would be like motherships of fleets, the last level of nomady-ness, needing a medium faction to run, while still being less as good as a station, needing to make a "Outpost" every once and a while to make new designs and test them out. Factories would have a lower mass limit, and would be available for mining barges, but not starter ships, so your destroyer could have a mining ship docked and repair some damage, without having to crash on a laggy planet or create an expensive (now only 50,000, still a lot)station in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Dire Venom]

I agree with comments above^^
It has enough to deal with as is, and is vunrable to attack except when docked (but if you keep it docked then why bother having it in the first place?)

Size limits on the shipyards maybe be a good idea... HOWEVER you guys seem to forget that I can fill up 20 blueprints of captial ships, fly in a tiny ship wherever I want then spawn 20 giatn ships out of my pocket...... so yeah

 

[Nickizzy]

Size limits on the shipyards maybe be a good idea... HOWEVER you guys seem to forget that I can fill up 20 blueprints of captial ships, fly in a tiny ship wherever I want then spawn 20 giatn ships out of my pocket...... so yeah

I wish they would take blueprints out and replace them with shipyards, but thats another story.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

I wish they would take blueprints out and replace them with shipyards, but thats another story.

Then I suggest they fix shipyards first. Like the docked objects, or every single logic element, display module and storage pull getting wiped if you spawn a ship at a shipyard.

Or just the large ships with turrets entering collision detection box of a station/other ship with docked and turrets, causing FPS drop and server lag.

Game's not nearly ready to restrict ship construction to shipyards only.

 

[Kiithnaras]

Mobile shipyards definitely need to be a thing, but they should be limited in some fashion to make certain that station-based shipyards are still viable...wait...I know! Shipyard structures on ships would disallow players from entering a Design's ship core!

1) This would prevent mobile structures from being able to design ships - They would have to be prefabbed from a blueprint or copied from an existing design.
2) The Mobile Shipyard would still be able to construct vessels, but it would need to store all of the requisite blocks without a means to manufacture them. This storage also increases the mass of a ship, hindering the performance of thrusters and any defensive systems.
3) The Mobile Shipyard would, most importantly, function as a repair and replacement center for lost or damaged strike craft.

FYI, I was able to "mod" shipyards onto ships, but the shipyard modules absolutely refused to slave themselves to the shipyard computer. Sadface.

 

[AsherMaximum]

What if rather than killing acceleration, jumpdrives, or things like that on Capital ships, instead shipyard and factory blocks worked like a reverse overdrive block, slowly killing the ship's maximum speed down to something like 25% of original? This could be countered with overdrive, so the maximum possible speed for a massive factory ship would be 2.25x server max, rather than 4.5x like all the other ships.

Of course, numbers for that could be adjusted, as could the rate at which additional factory/shipyard blocks decrease the max speed, to whatever makes sense for balance.
If the numbers where set so that you didn't reach maximum speed reduction until there were the amount of factories and docks you might find on a 3-4 million block ship, I think the max speed penalty could go down to 12%. With that number, your average capital ship with a few factories and a small shipyard would still experience a penalty, but it would be a very minor one.

Another solution would be to make factories and shipyard blocks very heavy, thus naturally making it harder to accelerate quickly, and require more thrusters to get to max speed.