Logic and its Relationship to Doors

[Amadeus]

So, just in case a developer pops in, a quick summary of this would be that:
-One group of people would like doors slaved to logic to not be able to be opened manually.
-One group would like only a certain type of door to be able to be opened solely with logic.
-And another that would like doors to act as logic activated switches.

Correct summary?

 

[FatCobra]

Sounds about right Amadeus.

 

[NeonSturm]

How about making a group-restriction block, opposed to the faction-permission block?
Instead of allowing access, you are denying it on doors - that would not break current behaviour.

 

[Amadeus]

How about making a group-restriction block, opposed to the faction-permission block?
Instead of allowing access, you are denying it on doors - that would not break current behaviour.

While that would deny access on doors, what I'm suggesting is a way to make logic on doors more practical. Like with a rail elevator, I have mine set so that the doors open when the elevator reaches its destination, but I can still manually open the doors to the elevator shaft even when the elevator isn't on that particular floor. With doors that can only be opened via logic this would be fixed, as the door would only open when an activation signal is sent from the elevator itself. This suggestion would effect more than just elevators though, it would add purpose to airlocks, hidden cargo holds, and other doors that need to be locked.

 

[Snowfox1337]

Well in my experience you dont really need to change doors to make them respond only to logic signals. Use rail based doors instead. Not only is it totally logic based but it looks much cooler, is completely shapable, and can be much tougher in the event of an attack anyway. I know it may be/most likely will be harder to build into things but once in place they are the best doors in my opinion. I have 4 rail based hanger doors on my main station and they are quite nice...only issue...it is a pain trying to get back in if you get locked out. Have to delete and replace blocks...but for enemies the lockdown would be a really big issue...especially if its a faction home base you are talking about.

 

[Valck]

Well in my experience you dont really need to change doors to make them respond only to logic signals. Use rail based doors instead. Not only is it totally logic based but it looks much cooler, is completely shapable, and can be much tougher in the event of an attack anyway. I know it may be/most likely will be harder to build into things but once in place they are the best doors in my opinion. I have 4 rail based hanger doors on my main station and they are quite nice...only issue...it is a pain trying to get back in if you get locked out. Have to delete and replace blocks...but for enemies the lockdown would be a really big issue...especially if its a faction home base you are talking about.

Yes, that would be ideal - if we had microblocks and could build fully functional rail doors inside the 1x1x2 space a plex door requires. Access control logic aside, you need at least eleven blocks to perform the function of two plex door blocks - two rails, a core, a docker, two aesthetic blocks so your door is not a core and a docker, plus two activators, a not gate, and two more rails for direction control. Even leaving out the aesthetic blocks, that's unacceptable in many situations.

EDIT:
Forgot a not gate...

 

[Malacodor]

Well in my experience you dont really need to change doors to make them respond only to logic signals. Use rail based doors instead. Not only is it totally logic based but it looks much cooler, is completely shapable, and can be much tougher in the event of an attack anyway. I know it may be/most likely will be harder to build into things but once in place they are the best doors in my opinion. I have 4 rail based hanger doors on my main station and they are quite nice...only issue...it is a pain trying to get back in if you get locked out. Have to delete and replace blocks...but for enemies the lockdown would be a really big issue...especially if its a faction home base you are talking about.

Hangar doors lose shield protection at 25%, and the loss of a single block, either rail docker or rail, lets the whole door fly off or leads to a collision lagfest.

 

[Snowfox1337]

Yes, that would be ideal - if we had microblocks and could build fully functional rail doors inside the 1x1x2 space a plex door requires. Access control logic aside, you need at least ten blocks to perform the function of two plex door blocks - two rails, a core, a docker, two aesthetic blocks so your door is not a core and a docker, two activators and two more rails for direction control. Even leaving out the aesthetic blocks, that's unacceptable in many situations.

I know. We really need micro blocks. Not just for smaller rail doors either. Ive been thinking of their uses in vehicles too (http://starmadedock.net/threads/land-vehicles-ideas.20395/#post-221529 ) And even modular personal equipment. (http://starmadedock.net/threads/starmade-as-an-astronaut.5086/ ) So yes i do agree we need micro blocks...they could add a lit to many parts of the game.

 

[Valck]

So yes i do agree we need micro blocks

That's not what I was alluding to.
It certainly would be nice to have microblocks eventually, but integrating the existing door blocks into the existing logic system might be a more manageable approach in a more manageable time frame. If microblocks are ever to be implemented, I think they wouldn't invalidate the work put into door/logic integration.

 

[NeonSturm]

Actually, you need a 3x3x1 space for a 1x2 door.
X O D
O R D
R-R X -- can be below or behind the door.
O=empty, D=door, R-R=rails, R=docker, X=not used.

Has somebody built slab-doors?​

Sometimes it would be fun if there would be a docker which doesn't need a rail or a rail without docker. Where any block would work as opposite part.

Well, this gives me the idea- pistons.
Contracted, blocks move toward. Extended, blocks would move away on a straight line as if there were a straight line of rails.

That would safe 2 blocks and reduce the space requirements: blocks+1 for the length of one axis of the door.​

 

[Valck]

Actually, you need a 3x3x1 space for a 1x2 door.
X O D
O R D
R-R X -- can be below or behind the door.
O=empty, D=door, R-R=rails, R=docker, X=not used.​

​

You also need direction control. Five more blocks you have to accommodate somewhere.

 

[Snowfox1337]

Pistons would work better. Maybe even give them the options to extend anywhere from 1-5 blocks just to make things easier and of course they would be part of the same entity so the annoying door collision problem would be solve. If the piston gets destroyed during a fight the door just gets jammed in whatever state it was in last when it rejoins the main ship grid. Best parts of rails and normal doors id say. Full entity shielding, compact space, and no collision issues like a plex door with the ability to customise the whole look of the door that a rail door has.

 

[TheBunnySuitKiller]

An Arduino block where y0u open it and inside is a big node based setup where the logic blocks go. Now you get all that logic but it's only one block so it's much less physics to process.