Devblog 11th July 2017 - End Goal Document Part 1

    Valiant70

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    At the moment, all blocks can be easily bought or made in large quantities with only a few small steps. Every resource you need can be gathered in almost any star system which is concern when you try to get more progression into the game. Base blocks such as power, basic hull and thrusters still need to be easily crafted no matter where you are, yet more advanced systems that you don’t need from the start, such as effects and the future reactor chamber blocks, could definitely use some changes.

    By fine tuning the crafting recipes and universe resource allocation system, we can create an unique world where, as a builder, you’ll have to play differently every time you generate a new universe. If certain block resources are tied to specific locations, you won’t be able to immediately build any block in large quantities. Those resources could still be found anywhere, but just in small quantities to allow small scale experimentation and open your mind to new possible ways.

    The idea here is that the player will have to adapt to the resources they have at their base and fully explore the functional blocks they can create there before moving on.
    This sounds about right. It actually reminds me a little bit of GregTech (minecraft mod) in some ways, where it takes a while to find all the different types of ores you need. This will motivate interaction with exploration, commerce, and industrial content. Just be sure the Trade Guild is sufficiently fleshed out and up to quality standard before implementing this so players can mail-order what they need from across the galaxy.

    Some functional blocks do need some extra depth to lengthen the amount of time needed to achieve this endgame build quality.
    Yes, end-game build quality should be more challenging to achieve logistically, so that a ship built with all the good stuff is a prize. Think of the Normandy SR-2 in Mass Effect.

    More immersion should be provided by private and public shipyards. It also gives access to creative mode and several build tools without breaking immersion of plopping down thousands of real blocks out of nowhere.
    I've been pushing these sorts of immersion-related features for a very long time. I'm glad to see the concept is officially in the plans for the final game.
     
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    Im glad that the devs are getting called out by a majority for once, maybe now they will listen. But everyone here keeps saying "I want to be good at everything/be a master at all the roles" but the problem is ALL videogames need limitations. Thats how you create balance/incentive. A player should be able to master multiple roles,yes, but it should take a shitload of grinding. No one wants to grind anymore in SM as it is, but leaving all the future end game content open/easy to access at the start of the game for any player will NOT help the game become any less of a pointless grind/flight sim. They need to introduce challenges. Think of your favourite RPG. Magic is usually much stronger than Melee right? But only at high levels and only with end game skills. If anyone has played Morrowind you know that a mage with OP enchanted gear takes a load of work to make (unless you are min maxing which is not how the majority play). If they made Enchating easier then every player would be using it, and they would have to nerf it/make enemies stronger to compensate(create difficulty)

    If GTA online made all the tanks and jets and choppers free then thats all you would see. Constant military fire raining down in the city. But they (poorly) balanced it with absurdly high costs. Yes you can make that money easy if you know what you are doing, but thats not the way the game is meant to be played.

    If SM is ever going to go past being a sandbox and turn into an actual game, it will have to introduce specialties/restrictions and limitations. Most people who want it to stay a sandbox still want features and stuff to do, while also wanting; difficulty, livelier universe, better mobs, more coop,more blocks, choices between big and small scale space battles like in Star Wars, more depth to factories. But the problem is that the Devs cant add EVERYTHING. Thats not how game development works. They have to add what the majority of players want, and focus less on what the minority does. Like every other game in existence. People say "I cant wait until its finished/SM devs will do whats right and create a 100% impossible sandbox where I can do everything I ever dreamed of..at the same time!!/I dont want to fit into roles." Well you can give this game 7 years it still wont get anywhere until they focus in a direction. They can change that direction later, but a sandbox game will never be fun until it becomes more game than sandbox.
     
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    With open but challenging design choices that have some consequences, detailed building options and mechanics, multifaceted aspects of game play, and good performance in multi-player servers, 'sandbox' Starmade would be just fine and good fun, = literally what the community makes it to be...
     
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    It's always fascinating to see how other people read a post, then go back and read it again. On my first read, it seemed pretty clear that the 'roles' were just a framing device for different aspects of play, and not, as in mmorpgs, a menu of options, of which you must choose a few too the detriment of the rest. On reading again after some of the more... flavorful comments I guess I can see where that could be understood. But yeah, I'm still pretty sure they're just a convenient device for framing the information and ensuring a breadth of features to satisfy different players.

    That said, I didn't see 'racing tycoon' on that list, and that's the part of Starmade that's actually closest to being complete and balanced. I mean look at all the current features! You can limit size to whatever fits through your smallest race gate, which can limit how many viable systems you have on the ship, then you have all these great motion effects to slap racers around with, but maybe they forgo the extra thrust (and therefore turning and acceleration) for a slow effect, and then they have to go through a field of fake asteroids on invisible rails and and and...

    Sorry, I blacked out there for a paragraph or so. Anyway, when I get back next month I'll try and get on the test build and do my part so lancake can play again, #letmylancakego.
     
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    As people continue to argue... The only thought that I have at the moment is... Where the hell is Bench ?? These kind of dev blogs are usually right up his alley.
     

    Lancake

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    Sorry, I blacked out there for a paragraph or so. Anyway, when I get back next month I'll try and get on the test build and do my part so lancake can play again, #letmylancakego.
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    I know I'm late to the party, but how did people read the section explaining the intended purpose behind planned game mechanics ("roles") and then translate that into an announcement that players are going to be locked into some sort of class based system like mmorpg's?

    Damn.
     
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    I know I'm late to the party, but how did people read the section explaining the intended purpose behind planned game mechanics ("roles") and then translate that into an announcement that players are going to be locked into some sort of class based system like mmorpg's?

    Damn.
    The most ridiculous or exagerated opinions get the most attention in the internet forums. They are the easiest to answer to and thus get the most replies. No matter how small the actual amount of people behind ridiculous ideas is, on the internet they appear huge. There are even studies around it. Mice getting boosted to elephants in this environments. =)
     

    Ithirahad

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    I know I'm late to the party, but how did people read the section explaining the intended purpose behind planned game mechanics ("roles") and then translate that into an announcement that players are going to be locked into some sort of class based system like mmorpg's?

    Damn.
    Not a hard-class based system, no. People are just worried that the game will be designed around those playstyles, instead of a more sandboxy "there's all this stuff that you can do; figure out what you want to do." At least, that's what I got out of it.
     

    Lecic

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    I know I'm late to the party, but how did people read the section explaining the intended purpose behind planned game mechanics ("roles") and then translate that into an announcement that players are going to be locked into some sort of class based system like mmorpg's?

    Damn.
    Epic strawman bro. The concern was that Schine would balance the game around these "classes," thinking people would only stick to their "class," resulting in imbalances.
     
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    Epic strawman bro. The concern was that Schine would balance the game around these "classes," thinking people would only stick to their "class," resulting in imbalances.
    I like my strawmen like I like my bacon: burnt to a crisp and incapable of making a coherent argument!
     
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    Okay... Am I the only one wondering what everyone's problem is? Seriously!

    If you want to build big but don't like the grind, USE CREATIVE MODE. If you want the more immersive play style, then GUESS WHAT, the grind is part of that.

    I love this game because it really lets you do whatever you want. For example:
    I feel too many people focus on offensive combat ships. So I use creative mode to build non-combat industrial ships with heavy defensive capabilities and logic automation.

    Hrolfsson Heavy Industries doesn't even touch 'guns' unless they're for anti-missile turrets.

    And the game totally allows me to do that! Do don't have to fire a single weapon EVER unless I feel like it. And if I wake up one morning and suddenly want to fight pirates, I can turn around and do that too! That's the brilliant part of this game and I think the devs are doing a great job with it all. :)
     
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    The roles we will talk about are the following:
    ~ Builder
    ~ Explorer
    ~ Industrialist
    ~ Trader
    ~ Fighter
    ~ Imperialist
    What ships do we build now?
    1. Mining Ships
    2. Cargo & Passenger Ships
    3. Military Ships
    4. Exploration Ships
    5. Decorative Ships
    What stations do we build now?
    1. Industrial Stations
    2. Military Stations
    3. Trading Stations
    4. Decorative Stations
    What planet bases do we build now?
    1. Industrial Bases
    2. Military Bases
    3. Decorative Bases
    Once we have built a couple of each of the above why build more? Won't building get boring after a while?

    -> Let's increase the number of Building Possibilities!

    Let's add Agriculture to StarMade. Once Agriculture is added we will gain additional building objectives:
    1. Farming Ships
    2. Farming Stations
    3. Farming Planet Bases
    This would be a ~25% Gain in Building Possibilities!
    And that gain to Game Content becomes even greater when you consider:
    1. Exploration for Rare plants and animals.
    2. Industrialize to dominate the plant/animal derived Consumables market - produce what you need and...
    3. Trade Consumables for profit!
    4. Fight for control of valuable Farm resources, locations, etc.
    5. Like an Imperialist, build a Farming Empire just because you can.

    StarMade will be much better when Agriculture is added.

    Thank You for Reading.