Buying ships with blocks as an alternative, not as a replacement

[Keptick]

READ THIS: I forgot to specify in the poll that server configs should still exist to disable "buying with blocks" or "buying with credits" independently.

For the suggestion skip to the third paragraph, the following two paragraphs explain why it's necessary. So, the last update has seen an incredible decrease in shops (which is fine, even if it's due to a bug). Which makes the acquisition of credits pretty hard, which is also fine. The new crafting changes have also revolutionized the in-game economy. All theses changes are for the greater good, encouraging players to harvest and process materials instead of build blocking planets and selling everything at shops. HOWEVER, there's currently now way of using those processed blocks to effectively spawn in blueprints. While some might argue that "I just have to build my ships on the server", some (read: most) people actually enjoy putting time and effort into something that looks good and then being able to use it on a server.

Of course, selecting the "buy with block" option on servers makes it possible to spawn in ships with blocks, but then the problem is effectively reversed: Ships can't be bought with credits, which is problematic for the same reasons as above. The planned feature to fix this issue is Shipyards, I believe the way it'll work is that a player loads a blueprint into a shipyard and the adequate blocks and the ship will build itself (or something like that). This will effectively fix the gap currently present in the blueprint buying mechanic. THE PROBLEM is that this feature might be a long way off, and that players will have to cope with the current mechanics until it's implemented (Not fun). FEAR NOT! There's a very easy solution to all that could serve as a place holder until shipyards are implemented:

The suggestion:
Make "buying with blocks" and "buying with credits" two options that can be chosen in-game either separately or as a hybrid (uses credits for blocks that you don't have, useful for ships with heavy decoration). If possible make it so that they can be independently turned off in the server configs.

Edit: Being able to buy the missing decorative blocks needed for the blueprint with credits, even at twice the price, is an absolute must. Otherwise people will be encouraged to flesh out deco blocks and reduce the amount of variety in their ships due to how much of a pain those deco blocks can be to make. This would be rather easy to do with the system implemented in the new dev build, just have every block that isn't "filled" into the blueprint item be bought with credits, with those blocks having a 50% (or configurable) price increase.

That way players have access to two methods of ship purchase and aren't completely locked out of one of them. This would pretty much fix the economy problems (credits being very scarce) until shipyards or an other proper measure is implemented (this suggestion isn't a permanent fix). Also, while I don't have any coding background, I don't think that it would be very hard to implement (coding-wise) since it doesn't require anything major to be added.

Spoiler: TL;DR

Make buying ships from blueprints with blocks an alternative to credits, not as a complete replacement (in-game option instead of a config option, of course a config to disable both independently should also exist). Would serve as a place holder to fix current economy problems until shipyards are added (this suggestion isn't a permanent fix), making everyone happy ^_^

PS: This is more of a strong recommendation then a suggestion.

Edit: Added a poll.

 

[Reilly Reese]

Was about to suggest this very thing

 

[jzimmerman4]

It might be nice to be able to buy a ship with both blocks and credits so that you dont have to build every single block on the ship (the one or two beacons and other decorative blocks) but can instead just mass produce the main components.

 

[Keptick]

It might be nice to be able to buy a ship with both blocks and credits so that you dont have to build every single block on the ship (the one or two beacons and other decorative blocks) but can instead just mass produce the main components.

Indeed, I added it to the suggestion.

 

[Creeper__God]

+1 I love this idea

 

[K10wN]

Buying with credits just invites people to buy 'part lumps' instead of crafting/buying the blocks which upsets the in game economy.

After a bit of testing, setting shops extremely scarce, adding a trading guild station to the stations folder that has money, but no stock, and needing to craft what you need keeps the economy under control. It makes blocks more valuable than credits and promotes trade between factions.

 

[Kane]

The entire buying with credits is broken and unlegit. You will get nothing but arguments on the matter because too many vets have become lazy and want a simple way out.

Before you think I'm pointing fingers or picking on someone I'm not. I think everything should be option based so everyone has a choice.

But the issue is simple. Credits should only buy you as much as what the shop has in stock. You should not be able to magically spawn blocks from thin air that the shopkeeper does not even own.

It gets so bad because now people end up just having Blueprints of certain block types that they might need that resource of etc. The Blueprint system really needs to go even summoning a ship with all the block parts should be changed to more of a overtime feature. Per block per time or something.

But I guess I enjoy Starmade as a survival game more then creative. This is why options are a must

 

[Keptick]

Buying with credits just invites people to buy 'part lumps' instead of crafting/buying the blocks which upsets the in game economy.

After a bit of testing, setting shops extremely scarce, adding a trading guild station to the stations folder that has money, but no stock, and needing to craft what you need keeps the economy under control. It makes blocks more valuable than credits and promotes trade between factions.

The entire buying with credits is broken and unlegit. You will get nothing but arguments on the matter because too many vets have become lazy and want a simple way out.

Before you think I'm pointing fingers or picking on someone I'm not. I think everything should be option based so everyone has a choice.

But the issue is simple. Credits should only buy you as much as what the shop has in stock. You should not be able to magically spawn blocks from thin air that the shopkeeper does not even own.

It gets so bad because now people end up just having Blueprints of certain block types that they might need that resource of etc. The Blueprint system really needs to go even summoning a ship with all the block parts should be changed to more of a overtime feature. Per block per time or something.

But I guess I enjoy Starmade as a survival game more then creative. This is why options are a must

You two should actually take the time to read the post. Notice how I mention shop scarcity and that it's actually hard to acquire credits now (since selling stuff at shops is the only income source).

Not to mention the BIG GREEN "READ THIS" message at the very top of the post which you SOMEHOW missed.

@Kane, the blueprint system is an integral part of the game. Calling someone lazy for using it is just wrong. Please stop mixing the skilled builders with the exploiters, thanks.

Seriously people, read and UNDERSTAND what you just read before commenting. It'll save everyone's time.

 

[Kane]

You two should actually take the time to read the post. Notice how I mention shop scarcity and that it's actually hard to acquire credits now (since selling stuff at shops is the only income source).

Not to mention the BIG GREEN "READ THIS" message at the very top of the post which you SOMEHOW missed.

@Kane, the blueprint system is an integral part of the game. Calling someone lazy for using it is just wrong. Please stop mixing the skilled builders with the exploiters, thanks.

Seriously people, read and UNDERSTAND what you just read before commenting. It'll save everyone's time.

I agree it's big part of the game but spawning things from thing air is not a skill. It's also why I suggested options a couple of times. The biggest issue in most games these days is someone has a vision and forces it on everyone. Rather instead let the admin / players decide how they like to play.

For me I would love to see a hybrid option to buy the blocks that are in stock and also use the blocks from your own inventory first.

But tbh they need stats, and more info about how many block etc the ship uses and maybe even match to how many blocks are in your inventory.

I think this is why shipyards is something we need to wait till their tested and then give our best input towards them. I have a feeling Shops and blueprints might be a thing of the past down the road.

Please note I play and enjoy a very survival aspect of the game.

 

[Mr.Steam]

What if both options were available, but buying with credits would cost a lot more than the equivalent cost of the blocks, say a 50% markup to cover the cost of the trading guild "gathering" the needed resources. IRL You can save money building a house yourself by gathering the materials and doing the work, but it is a lot easier to just pay a builder. He will charge you for the materials, and a markup for his time and skills.

 

[TheFloorMatt]

What if both options were available, but buying with credits would cost a lot more than the equivalent cost of the blocks, say a 50% markup to cover the cost of the trading guild "gathering" the needed resources. IRL You can save money building a house yourself by buying the materials and doing the work, but it is a lot easier to just pay a builder. He will charge you for the materials, and a markup for his time and skills.

I like this idea. It would also probably allow for editing the config on how much extra it could cost. Some server want to make it stupid to buy with credits? Sure why not! But at least there'd be a possibility

 

[K10wN]

I did read your post, and still maintain that buying blueprints with credits harms the in game economy. So many times I've made blueprints not available from the admin panel because it was obvious that they were just part lumps exploiting the game mechanic.

The need for money is very little when you're on an almost pure crafting and trading economy. The gap in the scarce shops is filled with the trading guild stations that have credits, but no stock until you sell blocks to them.

The only thing that had stopped me previously setting the blueprints to block purchase only was the lack of inventory slots. The multi-slot stacks has almost solved this issue. I can't wait for shipyards that have multiple storage blocks connected to it as well as the multi-stacks inside them which allows the import of any ship as buy with blocks.

 

[Keptick]

What if both options were available, but buying with credits would cost a lot more than the equivalent cost of the blocks, say a 50% markup to cover the cost of the trading guild "gathering" the needed resources. IRL You can save money building a house yourself by buying the materials and doing the work, but it is a lot easier to just pay a builder. He will charge you for the materials, and a markup for his time and skills.

Yea, I also thought about that. The more I think about it the more it makes sense.

And you guys don't seem to realize that blocks are actually easier to acquire then credits since the last update. Seriously, shops are insanely rare now (which is fine). @K10wN

I'd personally prefer a hybrid system. So it uses up the blocks in your inventory first before buying stuff with credits. It would be really useful for well decorated ships (I focus more on actual builders then system battle brick noobs, no offense to those of you out there who fit in that last category). Basically, I don't fly around space with charged varat circuits in my inventory, and last time I checked I had more different items in my ship then inventory slots.... The problem with "buy with block" only is that it encourages ship building laziness even more. RP ships are hard as hell to buy (because of the wide decorative block variety) and system battle bricks are very easy to gather materials for.

 

[blurb357]

Hear hear, and also on the topic, FIX THE DAMN ECONOMY SCHEMA!! I WANT TO BUY THE INFINITY ON A SERVER !!!!

 

[Mariux]

When shipyards are implemented (will most likely use blocks to build the ship), we could still have the option to buy ships, except there would be, for example, 10 percent increase in price plus the delivery time, which would get longer depending on how big the ship is.

 

[blurb357]

When shipyards are implemented

SAY WHAAAAAATTTTT? :O

 

[Mariux]

SAY WHAAAAAATTTTT? :O

In the future, you will only be able to build ships in shipyards.

 

[Ithirahad]

What if both options were available, but buying with credits would cost a lot more than the equivalent cost of the blocks, say a 50% markup to cover the cost of the trading guild "gathering" the needed resources. IRL You can save money building a house yourself by gathering the materials and doing the work, but it is a lot easier to just pay a builder. He will charge you for the materials, and a markup for his time and skills.

This is how I'm hoping shipyards would work.

 

[DivineEvil]

I see how a hybrid system is a viable way to use blueprints. Nonetheless, I also approve it as the server setting that divides regular and hardcore servers. Whether suggested separation for both methods is implemented or not, both methods are inherently flawed. Currency purchase allows for cloning inexisting blocks, which makes on-demand production pointless. Block purchase is logically adequate, but there's no an interface in place to tell what and how many blocks you lack to perform it.

What we need is to have shipyards in place to take ship production away from shops entirely, and make credits to perform mainly as medium for player/player exchanges, rather than player/shop currency. In most cases all servers will be able to handle until then, thus the question of whether suggested change is reasonable, depends solely on shipyard's priority in development by Schema. Shops are fine as the medium for acquiring materials initially and earning credits for produced ones. It would help if trade guild goods distribution would be more apparent and efficient, to make mining and production endeavors a bit more stable.

 

[Keptick]

I'll have to admit that the starmap bug really isn't helping since it basically causes shops to be unfindable... Right now my main income source is selling stole... uhm... acquired materials to rich players from before the patch. Once they run out of credits things are going to get a bit problematic...