A Manifesto on Fuel, Balancing, and Various Play Styles

[KingofCalamity]

This was a thought that came to me while I was at talking with a co-worker today.

Solar-sails. I really like this idea but I'm not sure how feasible they would be in-game. They serve as a really powerful form of propulsion in systems with powerful stars but are relatively useless in the void. I've read a little on them but for the most part moving in system would be really cheap and fairly quick depending on sail size and the amount of solar wind being cast off. (Varies from star to star, I can't remember the exact circumstances on star color and size.) This plays a role will solar power as well.

 

[Drakkart]

If it's easily obtainable everywhere, then there's no point. And when did anyone talk about crafting?

You are just that guy, aren't you.

I am simplay stating my opinion about what i wish the game would be like. no i do not consider fuel a good screw to twist in regards of giving players to fight over territory it would be way to essential crippling the looser of a battle way to much to make the game overall enjoyable for everyone. You guys seems to forget that being the victor means you eliminated another thread. I saw games dying because of a few people playing actively dominating and when everyone left they left as well because there was nothing more to do. This is why ressources must be available to anyone at any stage at any time under anycondition otherwise defeated factions ned way to long to recover which is just frustration and will lead to the game failing in multiplayer in general.

So yes i am a guys and i think fighting over fuel is a bad idea because it is to essential in an economy. The close to prefect pvp scenario ever created for me was DAoC safe leveling zones then the game opens up in the frontier/pvp zone and people can raid and siege over some relics which give marginal bonuses. People don't need much to fight over for as long as fighting is fun it will happen over little thing which do not cripple the opposing force. So is fuel should be in the game and a stealable ressource make sure the winners cheers over it and the looser will have gathered it back quickly.

If anybody is unable to understand this you may call me that guy but at the same time you admit you only want victory to feel well without caring about the consequences for the rest of the game.

 

[KingofCalamity]

I am simplay stating my opinion about what i wish the game would be like. no i do not consider fuel a good screw to twist in regards of giving players to fight over territory it would be way to essential crippling the looser of a battle way to much to make the game overall enjoyable for everyone. You guys seems to forget that being the victor means you eliminated another thread. I saw games dying because of a few people playing actively dominating and when everyone left they left as well because there was nothing more to do. This is why ressources must be available to anyone at any stage at any time under anycondition otherwise defeated factions ned way to long to recover which is just frustration and will lead to the game failing in multiplayer in general.

So yes i am a guys and i think fighting over fuel is a bad idea because it is to essential in an economy. The close to prefect pvp scenario ever created for me was DAoC safe leveling zones then the game opens up in the frontier/pvp zone and people can raid and siege over some relics which give marginal bonuses. People don't need much to fight over for as long as fighting is fun it will happen over little thing which do not cripple the opposing force. So is fuel should be in the game and a stealable ressource make sure the winners cheers over it and the looser will have gathered it back quickly.

If anybody is unable to understand this you may call me that guy but at the same time you admit you only want victory to feel well without caring about the consequences for the rest of the game.

Even that could be balanced by providing a faction Homebase with a set fuel gain per day or so. While it wouldn't give them an end all endless supply it wouldn't leave them with nothing if they lost a major conflict over a fuel resource. That being said, with it being optional, if you didn't want to play with it then you could just play on a server without it. Over all it would be more of an opt-in system. At least that's what I'm understanding.

 

[Lecic]

This was a thought that came to me while I was at talking with a co-worker today.

Solar-sails. I really like this idea but I'm not sure how feasible they would be in-game. They serve as a really powerful form of propulsion in systems with powerful stars but are relatively useless in the void. I've read a little on them but for the most part moving in system would be really cheap and fairly quick depending on sail size and the amount of solar wind being cast off. (Varies from star to star, I can't remember the exact circumstances on star color and size.) This plays a role will solar power as well.

Solar Sails are a cool concept but they aren't really practical for manned ships. You use them for little unmanned probes, because you need a massive sail to get decent propulsion on even a small thing.

I am simplay stating my opinion about what i wish the game would be like. no i do not consider fuel a good screw to twist in regards of giving players to fight over territory it would be way to essential crippling the looser of a battle way to much to make the game overall enjoyable for everyone. You guys seems to forget that being the victor means you eliminated another thread. I saw games dying because of a few people playing actively dominating and when everyone left they left as well because there was nothing more to do. This is why ressources must be available to anyone at any stage at any time under anycondition otherwise defeated factions ned way to long to recover which is just frustration and will lead to the game failing in multiplayer in general.

So yes i am a guys and i think fighting over fuel is a bad idea because it is to essential in an economy. The close to prefect pvp scenario ever created for me was DAoC safe leveling zones then the game opens up in the frontier/pvp zone and people can raid and siege over some relics which give marginal bonuses. People don't need much to fight over for as long as fighting is fun it will happen over little thing which do not cripple the opposing force. So is fuel should be in the game and a stealable ressource make sure the winners cheers over it and the looser will have gathered it back quickly.

If anybody is unable to understand this you may call me that guy but at the same time you admit you only want victory to feel well without caring about the consequences for the rest of the game.

No one is going to fight over fuel if you can get it relatively quickly.

If fuel was added, it should be obtainable from two or so sources- asteroids and planets. Asteroids give you a limited amount of fuel and then are gone, while planets have a regenerating pool of fuel that you can harvest. This makes planets something to fight over because they passively produce fuel, but if you don't yet control territory (or you lost it all in battle) you can still make ends meet with asteroid mining.

 

[Valiant70]

Solar Sails are a cool concept but they aren't really practical for manned ships. You use them for little unmanned probes, because you need a massive sail to get decent propulsion on even a small thing.



No one is going to fight over fuel if you can get it relatively quickly.

If fuel was added, it should be obtainable from two or so sources- asteroids and planets. Asteroids give you a limited amount of fuel and then are gone, while planets have a regenerating pool of fuel that you can harvest. This makes planets something to fight over because they passively produce fuel, but if you don't yet control territory (or you lost it all in battle) you can still make ends meet with asteroid mining.

This is something along the lines of what I had in mind - and this combines the more passive "explore, grab, gone, explore, grab, gone" kind of collection for players needing low volumes of fuel with a potentially war-inducing scenario where planets are valuable fuel resources that require less work to make use of. Even in an enemy system you could mine asteroids if you could avoid detection long enough, although it would still be a desperate move considering it's very inefficient.

 

[Lecic]

This is something along the lines of what I had in mind - and this combines the more passive "explore, grab, gone, explore, grab, gone" kind of collection for players needing low volumes of fuel with a potentially war-inducing scenario where planets are valuable fuel resources that require less work to make use of. Even in an enemy system you could mine asteroids if you could avoid detection long enough, although it would still be a desperate move considering it's very inefficient.

It's actually more effective to mine in enemy systems (as opposed to neutral), because you get a x6 mining bonus. While that's not as good as the x12 of your own territory, it's still good.

Plus, every asteroid you mine in an enemy system is fuel and capsules they don't get a x12 bonus for.

 

[Hergoth]

Just asked myself how to create a (handy, fun and not-so-mandatory) fuel system only with already implemented mechanics.

My answer : chemical generators.

All Schema has to do is add a block with the properties of a factory (and enhanceable the same way), unless it doesn't create new objects, just consumes your deposit to add energy units / tick to your capacitors, in replacement of your generators excedent (let's say generators themselves are self-reloading/solar-wind fueled/space-gods-blessed or whatever RP acceptable, we'll always need a bit of power when dried or for tiny units).

The deposit/fuel : organic matter. Flowers, fungus, living soils, wood and foliage, cactus, critters remains (in future), water, etc. With different reloading-values based on rarity.
You connect the system to your storage connected to your salvagers and tadaaaa, you can refuel by salvaging (the surface of) a living planet without having to land on it.
And if you don't like planets, you'd still can find organic treasures in stations chests (I liked it so much when foliage/cactus were the most valuable things in universe).


Would be so cool if we were all involved in a fight for preservation (=system sedentarity and defense) or consumption (= far-exploration and constant pillage) of space-life. Could even be a plot for general RP background.

 

[jorgekorke]

Fuel on Starmade is just as useless and annoying as the good ol' Gregtech - Turning your life harder at the benefit of nothing.

The implementation of fuel in Starmade seems inevitable, but is a topic of hot debate and argument, and even flaming. Now why is this so controversial? It is clear that when fuel is added, it will be configurable so those who don’t like it won’t have to use it. Thus, these changes will not affect those who don’t like the idea of fuel. If you don’t like fuel, play on a server that has it turned off. There are those of us who want fuel, and for a number of good reasons.

No.
This simple solution only applies to new players. Veterans will be stuck on the server they already play in. Do you really think I would abandon EE server RIGHT NOW that after months of hard work and recruiting I finally have the resources to pull off a fleet ? Of course I will flame, and quit Starmade if it pisses me off. No way I'm going to spend more then 200 hours mining again.

 

[Lecic]

Fuel on Starmade is just as useless and annoying as the good ol' Gregtech - Turning your life harder at the benefit of nothing.



No.
This simple solution only applies to new players. Veterans will be stuck on the server they already play in. Do you really think I would abandon EE server RIGHT NOW that after months of hard work and recruiting I finally have the resources to pull off a fleet ? Of course I will flame, and quit Starmade if it pisses me off. No way I'm going to spend more then 200 hours mining again.

Fuel gives a reason to fight over things. If you need fuel to support your fleet, and, say, rare-ish gas giants can be used as a regenerating fuel source, then gas giants become a source of conflict and trade.

 

[jorgekorke]

Fuel gives a reason to fight over things. If you need fuel to support your fleet, and, say, rare-ish gas giants can be used as a regenerating fuel source, then gas giants become a source of conflict and trade.

Should those resources become rareish as you suggest, this will favor uber imperialism, and at EE, (the server both of us play), will not be playable anymore for both of us. You know why.

 

[Lecic]

Should those resources become rareish as you suggest, this will favor uber imperialism, and at EE, (the server both of us play), will not be playable anymore for both of us. You know why.

Gas Giants would just be a RENEWABLE source of fuel. There would certainly be non-renewable sources of fuel from asteroids or something of the like.

And it's not like certain large factions would or even reasonably could take over every gas giant in even one galaxy. The only reason they're even powerful right now is because of old leftovers from before the new blueprint system.

 

[jorgekorke]

Gas Giants would just be a RENEWABLE source of fuel. There would certainly be non-renewable sources of fuel from asteroids or something of the like.

And it's not like certain large factions would or even reasonably could take over every gas giant in even one galaxy. The only reason they're even powerful right now is because of old leftovers from before the new blueprint system.

Hm, you are right.

 

[Snk]

Should those resources become rareish as you suggest, this will favor uber imperialism, and at EE, (the server both of us play), will not be playable anymore for both of us. You know why.

EE is not even a fraction of the larger Star Made community.

 

[Lidren]

EE is not even a fraction of the larger Star Made community.

Ok, by definition it is a fraction. A decently sized one too. I know what you mean though, hundreds of active servers now in play make for a much larger pot. One host company started 50 or so new servers since steam release.

 

[Valiant70]

Fuel on Starmade is just as useless and annoying as the good ol' Gregtech - Turning your life harder at the benefit of nothing.



No.
This simple solution only applies to new players. Veterans will be stuck on the server they already play in. Do you really think I would abandon EE server RIGHT NOW that after months of hard work and recruiting I finally have the resources to pull off a fleet ? Of course I will flame, and quit Starmade if it pisses me off. No way I'm going to spend more then 200 hours mining again.

You'll probably going to end up starting over multiple times anyway before the game's full release, sad as that is. Depending on the server, you may be able to bring in some blueprints or a sector afterward to soften the blow.

 

[Valiant70]

I spent a lot of time writing this. I think it's time to bump it again.

 

[Jay_do]

I jusy read the whole thread and now I'm a believer. I love the idea of large batteries to rely off of opposed to having more regen than you could consume. It would add more depth to it especially of there were many different generation types. low passive. High consuming. It'd be a good step in the right direction for StarMade in my oppinion

 

[MeepMoop]

So much yes in this thread. This is just what Starmade needs. This whole OP post is a masterpiece.

 

[Snk]

All hail Valiant. Why does anyone even make any other threads? His are so good

 

[Master_Artificer]

could use a poll to see what people think about this.