StarMade 0.1836 New Tutorial and loads of fixes

[Incap]

It's completely fair and balanced. It won't mater if it's 1:1:1 or 1:2:1 the amount of DPS per block will be the same. The only problem I see is it's just logically off. I just don't see the logic behind an effect increasing the required slave blocks. I could understand effects needing to be the size of both master and slave but not the way it is now.

Not everything is a perfect ratio either so it just becomes more complex trying to figure out how many master and slaves you need to get your ideal ratio for any given gun. I for one hate 50:50 machine guns except in certain circumstances.

That ratio is completely useless in this discussion. How many people actually set up a 1:2:1 weapon setup? You're better off using a more realistic ratio, like 1000:1000:1000 and 1000:2000:1000. And that does matter. It's wasted space on a 'fix' that has no right nor need to exist.

No, it's just stupid and unnecessary. It won't fix a goddamn thing. It isn't fair because it's a needless change that makes no sense and makes the already tedious task of calibrating power output, usage, weapon effectiveness, shield strength, etc even more complicated and taxing, and it's unbalanced because there was never an issue to begin with.

It's honestly a silly and vain attempt to 'bug fix' something that didn't need fixing instead some actual issues.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

This fix is a lot better for starting a new game. Instead of 100 : 100 : 100 players now only need 75 : 150 : 75. This means that you need less efect blocks for the same result, and anyone who has used the crafting system will tell you that they are extremely expensive.

 

[ingroa10]

You're not making it as efficient. You're making it more efficient. Efficiency is a relative parameter, and updates affect all designs equally. I don't see how it might be hard to grasp.That's made me laugh really hard.

Missiles taking more power now is because they were powerful AoE damage weapons with little prerequisites, having no alternative in how easy they are to use and how much damage they do. Effect blocks just require reasonable resources and space put into them to pay off the effect they give. You don't need bouble slave blocks, you just need to translate master blocks into slaves so that master+effect = slave. With available tools it would take minutes of common expertice.

It takes using filter to remove some master blocks and place them as slave blocks. What is so difficult here I don't see.

What difference does it makes when you can load your ship in single-player and set max brush size to almost anything you feel more handy and use it to replace blocks?

What it comes down to is that I'm simply not wasting the time in redoing systems again and again for multiple ships. They'll change again before release I'm sure. Multiple times most likely. And regardless of using the filter system or loading the ship in single player and setting the brush size huge I'm working in an area that is packed completely full of blocks of various different systems from power to weapons to ftl to you name it. I can't just mass delete with a huge brush and I can't just use the filter because multiple systems in that area use the same types of blocks, mass filter change a bunch of missiles and watch as 3 systems get screwed up from the replacement, and refitting these ships is going to require time. Which is something I don't feel like wasting on doing it again (See my post about spending about a weeks worth of time on a single ship) I had time off so I did the work to get everything on the ship right and the next day I'm pretty much at square one again. Now with both work and university picking up I can't be bothered. Especially if I would have to do it again after another update. Quite honestly it's just sapped the enthusiasm out of me for playing with weapons systems. Why bother with redoing them again and again when I can just use my shields and speed and stop effect turrets to fly right through a hostile area without a care in the world? It doesn't require a refit of any ships and it doesn't eat up all of my free time doing monotonous block replacing.

 

[NuclearFun]

How the hell is getting more DPS with a 2:2:2 weapon than a 6:0:0 weapon NOT BROKEN? You have no idea what you're talking about.

It's an alpha game. Expect refits. I just went and refit most of my ships. Design your ships with the knowledge that you'll probably have to re-arrange the guts at some point.

Stop with this "still an alpha" bs, that is no shield to guard against criticism.
I do not mind to refit ships, i do not mind balance changes, what i do mind is this new system... there has to be a different and better solution for that stupid DPS miscalculation.

 

[nagygeri01]

This fix is a lot better for starting a new game. Instead of 100 : 100 : 100 players now only need 75 : 150 : 75. This means that you need less efect blocks for the same result, and anyone who has used the crafting system will tell you that they are extremely expensive.

so 100 : 100 : 100 = 75 : 150 : 75 I don't believe !!!!

 

[FunnyBunny14]

so 100 : 100 : 100 = 75 : 150 : 75 I don't believe !!!!

DPS is based on block count. Since 100 + 100 + 100 = 300 and 75 + 150 + 75 = 300 , too, the DPS, and therefor the effect strength, remains the same as you currently have.

 

[Ithirahad]

People that like the change have asked, "Why should 300:300:300 be better than 900:0:0?" and for me, the answer is simple: The first one is ENHANCED by EFFECT MODULES and SLAVE SYSTEMS. The second one's just a bigger gun. There's no reason why that SHOULDN'T be better - it's essentially more advanced technology.

 

[SchnellBier]

You are so funny guys. You really expect a game in alpha to not change the balance? Most of you are acting like spoiled brats. You can be glad that blueprints don´t break every patch. Most games in alpha stage are resetting progress all the time and you are "hurr durr don´t wanna refit". Pathetic.

 

[Ithirahad]

You really expect a game in alpha to not change the balance?

Not to something that makes LESS sense.

Most games in alpha stage are resetting progress all the time and you are "hurr durr don´t wanna refit". Pathetic.

It's because we've been forced to refit so many times. If the devs had gone ahead and just rebalanced everything in one fell swoop, that would be fine, but people are extremely tired of trying to build decent ships, spending time fitting systems into decidedly non-cubical areas, then finding that they have to go in and replace things - Often manually since there's no way to stop the replace filter from removing blocks not linked to a certain block. THEN having to do it all again as something else gets nerfed. I understand the thrust changes, and the new shields do give more options (though it's also a nerf to smaller ships... but I can tolerate that for now) but this... this is just torture. I'm not bothering to refit my systems, personally, but people shouldn't have to deal with this stuff near-constantly unless there's a really good reason.

 

[SchnellBier]

I'm not bothering to refit my systems, personally, but people shouldn't have to deal with this stuff near-constantly unless there's a really good reason.

The reason is that this is an alpha game. Changes are going to happen. You don´t want changes? Don´t play it. They don´t really need a reason do change anything at this point.

 

[Ithirahad]

The reason is that this is an alpha game. Changes are going to happen. You don´t want changes? Don´t play it. They don´t really need a reason do change anything at this point.

Yes, 'they' actually do. You don't nerf or buff things because you want to (that's silly and just going to piss people off), you do so to make the game more intuitive, more balanced, et cetera. Or, alternatively... just don't release the game to the public until you like what you see, problem solved. But this game's already 'out,' so that's not an option.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

Please, people, just realise that you don't actually need more space to refit your ships. You just need the replace tool.

 

[Ithirahad]

Please, people, just realise that you don't actually need more space to refit your ships. You just need the replace tool.

Replace tool doesn't have a filter based on linked systems. And it's not uncommon to have identical support systems for different weapons next to one another. People have explained this before.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

Replace tool doesn't have a filter based on linked systems. And it's not uncommon to have identical support systems for different weapons next to one another. People have explained this before.

Then just use the remove filter to remove all the weapon modules. It's not like it's hard to mass place modules.

 

[der_scheme]

People that like the change have asked, "Why should 300:300:300 be better than 900:0:0?" and for me, the answer is simple: The first one is ENHANCED by EFFECT MODULES and SLAVE SYSTEMS. There's no reason why that SHOULDN'T be better - it's essentially more advanced technology.

Yes. It's better than 300:0:0, everything's fine.

 

[The_Onion]

Honestly, if you are getting mad about constantly refitting your ships, when the game is still in development, you should probably take a break until the game is officially completed. Its one thing to have a valid criticism, its another to cry because your old design is now obsolete.

 

[Lecic]

you know what you're talking about? This system was playing so bad, hundreds of hours of play and never have I experienced such a bad weapon balance system. ago was wrong, and now it works well, I accept all right, but you can raise your weapon damage blocks 2x 3x

Are you serious? The new weapon system plays so much better than the old one. Missiles near useless except in huge arrays, giant AMC checkerboards that lag out servers, and no beams or damage pulse? No thanks.

EDIT- Do you guys think schema ENJOYS breaking old designs? He wouldn't do it if he didn't need to.

 

[AssIn9]

I am confused... completely... I enjoyed putting thousands of amcs on my ship back before thanksgiving last year... now your saying that all the old ships with no supporting systems are just as good as all the new ships with all the advanced systems and expensive effects? so you removed most of the incentive to use the slave system? so now is the time for 1000:0:1000 arrays since there is no bonus other than using more power for amcs? its easier... loads easier. or was the damage increase from effects removed? ... so confused// can hard numbers be posted.. need to know what all the math is... what the addition of each block equals.

but what your also saying is that the systems don't need to be changed.. the pre 1836 arranged weapons are the same dps as post 1836 arranged weapons?

 

[Captainredfox]

keep in mind that it is a bug

We don't know that it is a bug.

 

[Lecic]

I am confused... completely... I enjoyed putting thousands of amcs on my ship back before thanksgiving last year... now your saying that all the old ships with no supporting systems are just as good as all the new ships with all the advanced systems and expensive effects? so you removed most of the incentive to use the slave system? so now is the time for 1000:0:1000 arrays since there is no bonus other than using more power for amcs? its easier... loads easier. or was the damage increase from effects removed? ... so confused// can hard numbers be posted.. need to know what all the math is... what the addition of each block equals.

but what your also saying is that the systems don't need to be changed.. the pre 1836 arranged weapons are the same dps as post 1836 arranged weapons?

There's still a huge amount of incentive to use the slave system. Most people don't want to just use normal cannons, which old ships have.

Systems still need to have the same number of blocks, those just need be a rearranged.

A 1000:000:000 set up and a 500:500:000 set up have the same DPS. A 250:500:250 set up will have the same DPS as those two, not counting for certain effect bonuses.

Take your total system block count, divide it by two, and then divide it by two again. The first number you get is the amount of support blocks you need. The second one is the amount of blocks the master and effect need. So,

1000/2 = 500 (slave modules needed)/2 = 250 (amount of modules needed for the master, and the same amount is needed for effect)

If you don't have an effect, you can still build perfectly fine at a 1:1 ratio.