The Vaygr Empire "To Dominate & Control" [Apply here]

[TwoNiner]

Aww c'mon how's linebacker better than trident

 

[zorozeenee]

In the next week or so im going to redo all my old ships, the czar is coming back Baby

 

[Keptick]

In the next week or so im going to redo all my old ships, the czar is coming back Baby

How many shields does it have now? Like 300 million? (not even exaggerating here)

Seriously, if you refit the weapons I'll run at the mention of its name.

 

[Reilly Reese]

Even in your Charon

 

[FlyingDebris]

Don't worry, Keptick. Ships like that are showpieces now, impractical in combat.

 

[Keptick]

Don't worry, Keptick. Ships like that are showpieces now, impractical in combat.

I guess, but it could still be used to spearhead an offensive and soak up all the damage while other ships kill everything. I mean, it does have disgustingly high shields.

Even in your Charon

Well, no :p (cause my titan will be a gun porcupine once the systems are in). But in anything else I would, yes.

 

[Unnamed25]

How many shields does it have now? Like 300 million? (not even exaggerating here)

Seriously, if you refit the weapons I'll run at the mention of its name.

I'm sure shields capacity got nerfed, not buffed on the 0.15s, also the Czar was 700 meters long

 

[zorozeenee]

Don't worry, Keptick. Ships like that are showpieces now, impractical in combat.

"Ships like that" Are you referring to all titans? Because not only does this have very high shields, but a very good weapon system and plenty of big turrets similiar to my invader. Judging from all your ships, i would venture to say you dont know a good ship from a bad one.

Ive already updated my thor and it kills my intruder in one shot, and the thor isnt even as big as the czar.

 

[Farel17]

kepticks ships are really nice

 

[FlyingDebris]

For the record Zoro, I was not insulting your personal abilities in any way. You obviously felt it neccesary to do so to me for f-all reasons.

As to what I meant, the Cherokee is similar in length to the Czar, giving it only a marginally better turning rate. I noticed that it was far too slow to be effective, and fitted the ship to be a showpiece vessel instead.

Needless to say, the Czar will be even slower and have even less thrust regardless of how you refit it. As turrets can easily be struck by a missile from a safe distance, a regular cruiser or even a pair of destroyers would be able to make short work of a lone ship of that size, unless 90% of its weapons were concentrated in a spam of massive long range turrets.

Now, if used as a flagship with an escort of smaller vessels, it may be possible to distract the other fleet while you line up some sort of a shot. Other than that or spawncamping, titans have few uses other than fighting other titans, which are becoming far less frequent and will kill the server and most peoples' computers.

 

[zorozeenee]

For the record Zoro, I was not insulting your personal abilities in any way. You obviously felt it neccesary to do so to me for f-all reasons.

As to what I meant, the Cherokee is similar in length to the Czar, giving it only a marginally better turning rate. I noticed that it was far too slow to be effective, and fitted the ship to be a showpiece vessel instead.

Needless to say, the Czar will be even slower and have even less thrust regardless of how you refit it. As turrets can easily be struck by a missile from a safe distance, a regular cruiser or even a pair of destroyers would be able to make short work of a lone ship of that size, unless 90% of its weapons were concentrated in a spam of massive long range turrets.

Now, if used as a flagship with an escort of smaller vessels, it may be possible to distract the other fleet while you line up some sort of a shot. Other than that or spawncamping, titans have few uses other than fighting other titans, which are becoming far less frequent and will kill the server and most peoples' computers.

Theory and reality are different things. There are so many ways to counter what you said.

In a test i did on our build server i instructed 2 people (rezerian and master) in 50k mass ships armed with a few weapon systems (medium and long range) to attack me from any position they wanted as i sat in my invader titan. They then left my teamspeak channel and i waited. I spotted them on my nav at roughly the same time one was approaching my left high and the other from my back. I began turning to attack the one to the left high (master). As they approached i couldnt turn fast enough to face them. So all that was left to defend the invader was the turrets. At this point i began firing missiles at them from my main missile system. I then accidently pressed r and fell out of my ship. The zumwalts had to get closer in order to get in range with better guns (because i was doing something that prevented them from focusing turrets) they then got in ai range and both of them were killed in a very short time.

The titan wasnt scratched, neither turrets nor the main ship.

 

[Keptick]

For the record Zoro, I was not insulting your personal abilities in any way. You obviously felt it neccesary to do so to me for f-all reasons.

As to what I meant, the Cherokee is similar in length to the Czar, giving it only a marginally better turning rate. I noticed that it was far too slow to be effective, and fitted the ship to be a showpiece vessel instead.

Needless to say, the Czar will be even slower and have even less thrust regardless of how you refit it. As turrets can easily be struck by a missile from a safe distance, a regular cruiser or even a pair of destroyers would be able to make short work of a lone ship of that size, unless 90% of its weapons were concentrated in a spam of massive long range turrets.

Now, if used as a flagship with an escort of smaller vessels, it may be possible to distract the other fleet while you line up some sort of a shot. Other than that or spawncamping, titans have few uses other than fighting other titans, which are becoming far less frequent and will kill the server and most peoples' computers.

While I do agree with some of your points keep in mind that the bigger turrets on titans (like mine) are the same size as small cruisers or even battleships (depending on the turret).

But hey, if you want to use smaller ships it's all good. Just needs more strategic thinking is all.

 

[FlyingDebris]

Interesting setup, I may try that sometime. As to the turrets functioning like small ships, I understand that. That also coincidentially happens to be the exact reason why I designed the weapons on most of my ships to function at greater distances. The idea is that if you can keep away from the other ship while consistently delivering long range strikes (that don't even have to be big, just as long as they land some damage) that, while time consuming, will eventually destroy the turrets before they can return fire, leaving the slow titan exposed. Admittedly, it is frustrating for both parties, as the ships will occasionally experience server lag, putting them at a distance, while the titan pilot sits there slowly trying to get close enough to the faster, smaller ships to engage them.

Your test subjects made a mistake, which was that they got too close and your turrets opened up on them.

And thank you Keptick, for being decent about the discussion.

 

[Planr]

No matter how zoro plays his cards, once the in-game economy is fixed, his titans will no longer be maintainable and he will be forced to use cheaper and smaller ships

 

[FlyingDebris]

Oh yeah, that too...

 

[zorozeenee]

No matter how zoro plays his cards, once the in-game economy is fixed, his titans will no longer be maintainable and he will be forced to use cheaper and smaller ships

Just like you said they would nerf titans in the next patch right?
And btw i do use cheaper smaller ships right now on elwyn, the zumwalt. It works very well and is combat proven. We dont ever use titans unless we need to.

 

[Keptick]

Interesting setup, I may try that sometime. As to the turrets functioning like small ships, I understand that. That also coincidentially happens to be the exact reason why I designed the weapons on most of my ships to function at greater distances. The idea is that if you can keep away from the other ship while consistently delivering long range strikes (that don't even have to be big, just as long as they land some damage) that, while time consuming, will eventually destroy the turrets before they can return fire, leaving the slow titan exposed. Admittedly, it is frustrating for both parties, as the ships will occasionally experience server lag, putting them at a distance, while the titan pilot sits there slowly trying to get close enough to the faster, smaller ships to engage them.

Your test subjects made a mistake, which was that they got too close and your turrets opened up on them.

And thank you Keptick, for being decent about the discussion.

Yes, I don't want to discredit them at all but their ships most likely weren't fit for a fight against a much larger ship. Perhaps lacking in range or some other attribute.

However, you did forget one point. That point being that turrets can also be equipped with long range weapons (and with the way things work the max range is the exact same for everything). So, if I take as an example my titan's new turrets, I'd still retain some effectiveness against smaller ranged ships since the missile pods have the max range. However, that's just a flaw in the weapon system as a whole (I have no idea on how to fix it btw) and isn't caused by ship design.

But, let's be realistic here, most people don't bother to have more range since it hurts damage output and block removal abilities and only offers an advantage in a few situations. However, when taken advantage of against a normal ranged enemy then becomes an extremely potent weapon.

Honestly, there really isn't any "best" way of doing things since everything has strengths and weaknesses (rock/paper/scissors). It's all about preferences and choosing engagement properly based on available intelligence on enemy vessels. Large scale combat is going to be really interesting considering that most ships are more or less situational nowadays.

 

[TwoNiner]

Interesting setup, I may try that sometime. As to the turrets functioning like small ships, I understand that. That also coincidentially happens to be the exact reason why I designed the weapons on most of my ships to function at greater distances. The idea is that if you can keep away from the other ship while consistently delivering long range strikes (that don't even have to be big, just as long as they land some damage) that, while time consuming, will eventually destroy the turrets before they can return fire, leaving the slow titan exposed. Admittedly, it is frustrating for both parties, as the ships will occasionally experience server lag, putting them at a distance, while the titan pilot sits there slowly trying to get close enough to the faster, smaller ships to engage them.

Your test subjects made a mistake, which was that they got too close and your turrets opened up on them.

And thank you Keptick, for being decent about the discussion.

Your argument requires intel on what ships your opponent is bringing into battle. because if you build a ship purely for ranged attacks it would leave you vulnerable against front-line warships like the Vaygr Zumwalt or a CR Resolution which can both jam to prevent missile lock and are equipped with overdrive to close distance between them and their targets. Once they get in weapon range your ship would be inferior due to being built solely for range purposes.

That intel could easily be fabricated to mislead you into bringing a SPECIALIZED ship into combat making it all the more easier for your opponent to shred you.

Also if your talking about fleet warfare then Titans are more then viable being able to zone enemies with their turret range and because you'll have no choice but to engage it first due to the titan restricting your fleet's movement it will be able to soak up most of the damage for the rest of the fleet. Either ways target it first and the rest of the fleet will bite you, decide to ignore it and it will punish you with a death blow for every slight error in maneuvering.

 

[Trollerbobman]

Just like you said they would nerf titans in the next patch right?
And btw i do use cheaper smaller ships right now on elwyn, the zumwalt. It works very well and is combat proven. We dont ever use titans unless we need to.

The thing is, thanks to the massive cost of ship-mounted FTL drives, if you even tries to get FTL on your ships the cost would be too high to buy on a server. The CPU costs 25k and the modules cost 7k each, and to get higher FTL recharge speeds you need freaking tons of them. Literally, you need more blocks than the mass of the ship itself to charge at a fast recharge rate.

 

[TwoNiner]

The thing is, thanks to the massive cost of ship-mounted FTL drives, if you even tries to get FTL on your ships the cost would be too high to buy on a server. The CPU costs 25k and the modules cost 7k each, and to get higher FTL recharge speeds you need freaking tons of them. Literally, you need more blocks than the mass of the ship itself to charge at a fast recharge rate.

Its bound to be balanced so no worries