Thrust Mechanics Explained

[Ithirahad]

I'll just leave this here...

Spoiler

As of the aug 27th dev build (also, if you aren't following the FTL discussion thread, jump drives are now functional)

Hoooly awesomeness. It's the last thing I should be doing now, but I think I'm gonna go ahead and get on the test server.

 

[GaeasSon]

OK, I have seen the light! The current implementation of the Jump drive works beautifully. It's a significant investment in power and mass.... but it's VERY nice and totally worth it.

Do I think my idea described earlier in this thread would be better? Well, yes, honestly... but only a bit better. This rocks!

Note that you can navigate with both your computer and your direction. Select a destination sector and you will jump straight there, or about seven sectors in that direction, no matter which direction your ship is pointing. You can jump a single sector or 7 in any direction neat as you please. Without a destination in the Nav computer, you just go 7 sectors in whatever direction your bow is pointing.

The effect is very satisfying. There is a shimmer in the hull, a starfield acceleration, A shift to a worm-hole efffect and .....POW you are at your destination. You really feel like you've traveled... And you really feel like you've profoundly abused several natural laws to do so. Very satisfying.

 

[NeonSturm]

The tiny ship probably doesn't have enough hyperdrive capacity to haul a capital. Anyway, who here wants to make a gate that looks like

Forcing a solid connection will make the calculations harder and reduce flexibilty

Really like that...

How about invisible, non-physical warp-gate-modules? Just like area triggers?

You then have to somehow force the ship to not touch them, but the core to go through. Either by leaving some safety distance outside not-enclosed loop parts or by enclosing it in hull.

 

[marcus87]

You could fill the connections with glass or water. Or you connect them with plex doors and open them, there would be blocks but zou can't see them. And you can even move through them. And as a faction you could close the gate, like in stargate

 

[FunnyBunny14]

Everyone is freaking out over FTL (Which is going to be amazing don't get me wrong) and I'm over here excited about finally making my Pod Racers hover, and then making a track for them. :D

About the anti gravity, the stop effect and the explosive effect when they are used defensively

The stop effect module was supposed to cancel out gravity (but due to a bug it doesn't), and the explosive effect helps against movement weapons.

No need to add a new anti gravity module, there just needs to be some bug fixing.

ps: I'm a bit late, because apparently my phone didn't post this message when I originally wanted to. So here it is now.

 

[Ithirahad]

OK, I have seen the light! The current implementation of the Jump drive works beautifully. It's a significant investment in power and mass.... but it's VERY nice and totally worth it.

Do I think my idea described earlier in this thread would be better? Well, yes, honestly... but only a bit better. This rocks!

Note that you can navigate with both your computer and your direction. Select a destination sector and you will jump straight there, or about seven sectors in that direction, no matter which direction your ship is pointing. You can jump a single sector or 7 in any direction neat as you please. Without a destination in the Nav computer, you just go 7 sectors in whatever direction your bow is pointing.

The effect is very satisfying. There is a shimmer in the hull, a starfield acceleration, A shift to a worm-hole efffect and .....POW you are at your destination. You really feel like you've traveled... And you really feel like you've profoundly abused several natural laws to do so. Very satisfying.

Agreed. Once the amount of required blocks for jump drives is reduced somewhat (It's a bit ridiculous to expect people to have 1/10th of their ship made from jump blocks, especially with the thrust changes.) it will be really nice. Some way to extend jump length witth a larger-than-necessary drive would be nice too - say, once you have the minimum amount you can jump <=7 sectors, up to a hypothetical 50-ish sectors with 100% Warp Drive blocks, though that is of course physically impossible. (Also, warp-tunnel time should vary based on warp length, rather than simply blinking to your target after an always-fixed, always-really-short transit time.)

 

[Vakna]

(Also, warp-tunnel time should vary based on warp length, rather than simply blinking to your target after an always-fixed, always-really-short transit time.)

Agree with this, one of the things I liked about EVE Online, you spent actual time at warp and the effect is beautiful as you're tearing through spacetime. I want that here, actually spending significant amounts of time at warp so you can admire the effects, maybe even walk around in your ship as you warp to your destination and look out the windows as the stars zip by.

 

[GaeasSon]

Let me throw another approach at the wall. I like building that requires planning and a bit of engineering over (spam blocks here)

What if the threshold for jumping were not the proportion of jump blocks to total mass, but based on a bounding block system? Set the origin of the bounding box at the jump computer. Set the (x,y,z) dimensions of the bounding box based on the sum of the x,y,z dimensions of the jump block clusters. In order to jump, the entire ship-structure must be enclosed in the bounding box. This would make jump-ships much more vulnerable to engine damage. Shoot a hole in my nacelles, and I should be worried about whether I can warp away. Set energy consumption based on the number of jump blocks or the volume of the bounding box to discourage massive redundancy.

Also consider the idea of a an external visual effect as Jump engines charge (maybe the pre-jump shimmer?) Maybe jump blocks should glow as they are charged?

Thoughts?

 

[FunnyBunny14]

My thoughts:
As long as the effects for warp, charge and hyper drive are extremely good and really cool, I'm happy!

 

[Saber]

My thoughts:
As long as the effects for warp, charge and hyper drive are extremely good and really cool, I'm happy!

Well it's StarMade so they're going to be, but even if they're not to your taste you'll probably be able to edit them to look however you want as well.

 

[NeonSturm]

Let me throw another approach at the wall. I like building that requires planning and a bit of engineering over (spam blocks here)

What if the threshold for jumping were not the proportion of jump blocks to total mass, but based on a bounding block system? Set the origin of the bounding box at the jump computer. Set the (x,y,z) dimensions of the bounding box based on the sum of the x,y,z dimensions of the jump block clusters. In order to jump, the entire ship-structure must be enclosed in the bounding box. This would make jump-ships much more vulnerable to engine damage. Shoot a hole in my nacelles, and I should be worried about whether I can warp away. Set energy consumption based on the number of jump blocks or the volume of the bounding box to discourage massive redundancy.

Also consider the idea of a an external visual effect as Jump engines charge (maybe the pre-jump shimmer?) Maybe jump blocks should glow as they are charged?

Thoughts?

Maybe require one or many intact loops, but each after the first adds 5% power drain). You can build redundant (2 nacelles) and pay more or build cheap and suffer critical hits.

Damaged loops don't contribute to charge capacity and when a loop breaks, you suffer charge = charge * newCap / oldCap.
If your chargeCap drops below what your ship requires, you can't jump.


But the boundary boxes might add more issues. Alignment for example.
do not enforce something on peoples which try to re-play a movie with different warp mechanics.

 

[der_scheme]

This post is totally off-topic:

Well it's StarMade so they're going to be, but even if they're not to your taste you'll probably be able to edit them to look however you want as well.

It's a shader. So yes, you probably can expect some mods that change the looks of it, some of them maybe even emulating the scifi franchise of your liking.

 

[GaeasSon]

Maybe require one or many intact loops, but each after the first adds 5% power drain). You can build redundant (2 nacelles) and pay more or build cheap and suffer critical hits.

Damaged loops don't contribute to charge capacity and when a loop breaks, you suffer charge = charge * newCap / oldCap.
If your chargeCap drops below what your ship requires, you can't jump.

But the boundary boxes might add more issues. Alignment for example.
do not enforce something on peoples which try to re-play a movie with different warp mechanics.

I like the loops. I admit freely that I'm a shameless trek geek, and the fictional physics from that universe makes the most sense to me... But what I'd like to see in Star-made is generic versatile and customizable so that people can create whatever effect makes sense to them.

Ok, this just seems obnoxious to ask, seeing as they've just handed us the biggest gift in the game development cycle so far... Well what the hell..

Hey @Calbiri (addressing you as a face of the dev team).

I wonder if we couldn't (in the long run) have a FTL system that is structured like our weapons system where we can combine subsystems to create all sorts of special effects and modified functions.

Jump + Damage pulse + Power Drain + blue : Activates A blue EMP pulse as you jump, to disable pursuers.
Jump + Damage beam + red : Projects a Babylon-5-esque Jump-window ahead of the ship before it jumps.
Jump + AMC: Reduces your power requirements, but also reduces your maximum jump distance.
Jump + Push pulse: Preceeds your arrival with a powerful push pulse to clear away asteroids. Costs more energy. Good for survey craft.
Gate + Damage beam: projects Projects a Babylon-5-esque Jump-window within the gate.
Either mechanism + repair beam: provides a few seconds invulnerability and intangibility on exit... in case you warp into something.
Either mechanism + BobbyAI: provides intelligent collision-free re-entry, and prevents jumps into stars and planets.
Hyperspace drive? Maybe something to determine whether you are moving the entity, or the whole sector.

 

[EricBlank]

Agreed. Once the amount of required blocks for jump drives is reduced somewhat (It's a bit ridiculous to expect people to have 1/10th of their ship made from jump blocks, especially with the thrust changes.) it will be really nice. Some way to extend jump length witth a larger-than-necessary drive would be nice too - say, once you have the minimum amount you can jump <=7 sectors, up to a hypothetical 50-ish sectors with 100% Warp Drive blocks, though that is of course physically impossible. (Also, warp-tunnel time should vary based on warp length, rather than simply blinking to your target after an always-fixed, always-really-short transit time.)

I like this concept. A small jump drive (that meets a low minimum system mass/vessel mass ratio like 2% or something) being sufficient to travel a few sectors while an oversized jump drive (along with the necessary capacitor) allows for very long distance travel. And variable jump time depending on the distance to the destination

Additional note: in eve online, warp times depend both on the distance to the destination and warp speed of the ship. Not all ships have the same speed at warp, though I suppose that isn't necessary in star made. It would make an interesting mechanic, though: allow a configuration on a ship with a drive which determines whether that ship balances warp speed and range, or extends range at the expense of speed/vice-versa. Not out to 100% dedication one way or the other, of course, or you'd end up with a drive that takes you nowhere fast or to the ends of the universe an eternity from now, neither of which are any more useful than just flying there in real time.

 

[GaeasSon]

As an aside I'd simply like to express my appreciation for a game and its developers who listen to their players. And in conclusion , WHEEEEEEEEEEEE!

 

[Vakna]

As an aside I'd simply like to express my appreciation for a game and its developers who listen to their players. And in conclusion , View attachment 4040 View attachment 4041 WHEEEEEEEEEEEE!

That's beautiful.

 

[HerrColonel]

Am I the only one to disagree with the whole menu idea and percent thrust in some directions?

Let me explain:
I think this system is bad from an immersion point of view, just as the current system

Let's say I build a little shuttle with a main engine in the back and some landing engines (downward thrust) on bottom
With the planned system I set let's say 60% thrust foreward 30% downward for VTOL landing on planets and 5% both for right and left because I like to be agile. Good. Now I get shotted by a defense turret while getting off the planet and it destroyed all of my bottom thrusters.
With this logic, I am still able to use my downward thrust even if the thrusters supposed to do so are destroyed (that's so much illogic) until I change the setting or repair my shuttle. But while escaping, my overall thrust being lower, I have not as much foreward thrust as before being shot, even if my main engine (supposed to give foreward thrust) is untouched.

I feel like you don't want to get serious and manage deep thrust mechanics.
The thrust should be applied depending of the gravity center of the ship (I feel like all the ships rotate around the ship core position, why isn't there anything in the new system to change this?) so to thrust foreward (STARIGHT) with the ship on this shema I did you have to use both thrusters 1 and 2

Assuming there is no main engine in the back to do it.
Using only Thruster 1 or thruster 2 should make the ship spin (in the yaw axis) in the opposite direction.

I know it would be much harder but I think the players need SOMETHING more than just new values to catch their interest. Personnaly I haven't played this game for quite long and I don't know if I'll start it again ever with this kind of mechanics.

 

[ltmauve]

Hey, could we get gates on ships for heavy capital ship point cost (even more than FTL drive, enough that a ship can barely move with one). I'm thinking modular stations, hauling the gates elsewhere if you need to move base, etc.

 

[GaeasSon]

Hey, could we get gates on ships for heavy capital ship point cost (even more than FTL drive, enough that a ship can barely move with one). I'm thinking modular stations, hauling the gates elsewhere if you need to move base, etc.

I still think the concept of "capital ship" as a distinct class is ill-advised. Just make the hyperspace drive a way to move base structures. including base structures with gates.

 

[ltmauve]

I still think the concept of "capital ship" as a distinct class is ill-advised. Just make the hyperspace drive a way to move base structures. including base structures with gates.

And modular bases? Can't do that