Thrust Mechanics Explained

[TNA]

This sounds awesome, the thrust distribution and FTL ideas, except maybe the hyperdrive like other people mentioned. The distances you will able to travel by FTL will also be a server-setting i guess.

 

[Criss]

I honestly don't know about this one. I can definitely see it'll be a good addition, but I'm confusing myself on if people will see it as viable in combat. Possibly... Turrets with stop or pull effects are known to be especially good against lighter vessels and I can see the stop passive being used on scout vessels or suicide vessels. On the other hand, that's 10% of your ship right there. Unless you're sure that your opponent is going to try to interdict your movement then I would want to fit more combat equipment in that space instead.

If they add acceleration rates to turrets based on mass then it would absolutely be useful. Webbing a target so its easier to hit with big guns.

 

[Johnathan Dahmnation]

Dividing 100 by 6 gives 16.6, so a vessel with 'balanced' thrust on a 500 speed server would have a maximum speed of 83 units in any direction as well as a presumably low acceleration.
While this may be good for a vessel focusing on docking, or something land-based/station based, it is not an acceptable rate of travel or acceleration for a smaller vessel. With a large ship this matters less due to you not being able to dodge anyways. Still... Too slow for something that you will be using to travel.

How about a different example... 50% forward thrust with 10% in the rest of the categories. Okay, so I'm going to assume strong forward acceleration and a top speed of 250 units, so you'll be zipping past the fellow with balanced thrust. If you're going forward. If you're not going forward... Top speed for your other thrusters is 50. We can assume that for anything that isn't getting into a docking position you won't be making much use of your non-forward thrust.
I'll go ahead and say that this is preferable in almost every conceivable case to a 'balanced' thrust. For fighters, you should have the thrust/mass and thus acceleration to easily reach that 250 top speed on a whim, and be able to zip around at your leisure. The same goes for medium-sized ships, who only have to worry about nominal power costs from their thrust systems. The downsides kick in when you start to lose your turn rate. If a vessel can't turn fast enough to view an opponent and doesn't have turrets to increase their firing arc, then they might as well just keep accelerating, as you won't be able to strafe or backpedal to keep opponents within the sights of your forward weapons. This comes down to fitting capital vessels more like capital vessels, without a central weapon array or designated firing position.

For a final example I'm going to try thinking through a 30% forward, 30% backward, 10% to the rest setup. This allots your vessel about 150 units in maximum speed both forwards and backwards and supposedly average acceleration. Your strafing will suffer minimal acceleration and 50 units top speed.
I feel that a setup such as this one will be the most common for anyone that can get some speed going. The reasoning behind that is that it allows the ship decent travel speed and the ability to backpedal. This keeps forward weapons on target even if the enemy is otherwise more mobile than you. So long as your vessel has forward firepower, the ability to backpedal from an enemy's advances while keeping them in your sights will have more value than being able to move forward quickly as that implies you are not always facing the enemy and thus not applying weapon damage to them.

Your balance points seem interesting. Though I have a bone to pick with your fighter balance. It's good for bombing runs but terrible for trying to maintain position near an unweaponized point or turret coverage weak spot while keeping your guns pointed at them since they can likely backpedal faster than you can strafe to stay alongside them.

Also it sounds like it would be a pain to stop or dock, which is carriers ever become in some way a desirable thing works against that, but that's probably a much lesser gripe.

 

[schema]

since there seems to be some confusion about the capital ships: Basically normal ships will have certain amounts of points to be spent on capital ship systems. You consume those by placing capital ship systems, and they will gradually influence your ability to move.

Basically stuff like on-ship factories will have a very low value so you can place a fair amount while still being able to move around.

However a hyperdrive (not the one you put on ships for an 8 sec jump) will be very expensive. Capital ships with those systems are basically moving stations without some bonuses stations get. Their advantage is basically that other than stations, they can move around with the hyper drive or the normal jump drives, while stations are, well, stationary.

 

[El_Poulpy]

about hyperespace :

I think the hyperespace should work a little differently like in star wars for instance: when you want to enter in hyperespace you enter a destination, the computer calculate the path then launch hyperespace. That mean you need a map of the space and can use hyperespace only if you have made exploration or bought maps.
I think when you launch hyperespace you should have a gui with a list of sectors in range and store in a kind of map you can go to. Like that there wouldn't be the bad effect MrFURB pointed out.
I hope the malus linked to hyperespace won't be so important that you would have a station like ship butna ship that move slowly

About interdiction :

Would it be an effet linked to a weapon or an area of effect ? I think an area of effect would be better. You have a capital ship with an interdiction system when you activate it you can't move anymore but your ennemy can't flee (you 'd need friend with you to finish them of)
Moreover it should exist interdiction area which are natural, in asteroid field near stars and planets in nebulas ...

 

[Vakna]

since there seems to be some confusion about the capital ships: Basically normal ships will have certain amounts of points to be spent on capital ship systems. You consume those by placing capital ship systems, and they will gradually influence your ability to move.

Basically stuff like on-ship factories will have a very low value so you can place a fair amount while still being able to move around.

However a hyperdrive (not the one you put on ships for an 8 sec jump) will be very expensive. Capital ships with those systems are basically moving stations without some bonuses stations get. Their advantage is basically that other than stations, they can move around with the hyper drive or the normal jump drives, while stations are, well, stationary.

As long as they are realistically movable still, I can get along with that. I was never a fan of titans being able to move as fast as fighters anyway, it's silly. Out of curiosity, will every ship have the same amount of points to spend on capital systems, is it a non-negotiable hard limit that can't be altered?

Also - ship factories! :O Does this also mean we can have some sort of turbolift system for easier internal navigation, that doesn't involve imaginative logic set ups on big ships?

 

[Johnathan Dahmnation]

since there seems to be some confusion about the capital ships: Basically normal ships will have certain amounts of points to be spent on capital ship systems. You consume those by placing capital ship systems, and they will gradually influence your ability to move.

Basically stuff like on-ship factories will have a very low value so you can place a fair amount while still being able to move around.

However a hyperdrive (not the one you put on ships for an 8 sec jump) will be very expensive. Capital ships with those systems are basically moving stations without some bonuses stations get. Their advantage is basically that other than stations, they can move around with the hyper drive or the normal jump drives, while stations are, well, stationary.

Hearing these details makes me very happy for certain other on the way aspects.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

Lots of interesting ideas here. I'm just going to wait and see what happens. Also, overdrive seems like it will get an actual really good use, so that's a plus.
One question about the overdrive though (because I want to know how I should design ships in advance):
How will it exactly work? Will it double the maximum speed of your ship, or will it make your ship go a certain amount faster than the server speed limit?

Curiosity is a curious thing.

 

[Calbiri]

about hyperespace :

I think the hyperespace should work a little differently like in star wars for instance: when you want to enter in hyperespace you enter a destination, the computer calculate the path then launch hyperespace. That mean you need a map of the space and can use hyperespace only if you have made exploration or bought maps.
I think when you launch hyperespace you should have a gui with a list of sectors in range and store in a kind of map you can go to. Like that there wouldn't be the bad effect MrFURB pointed out.
I hope the malus linked to hyperespace won't be so important that you would have a station like ship butna ship that move slowly

About interdiction :

Would it be an effet linked to a weapon or an area of effect ? I think an area of effect would be better. You have a capital ship with an interdiction system when you activate it you can't move anymore but your ennemy can't flee (you 'd need friend with you to finish them of)
Moreover it should exist interdiction area which are natural, in asteroid field near stars and planets in nebulas ...

You pretty much just described the jump drive...,
also, again, please try to keep the suggestions to a minimum on this thread, as if we start doing that it will quickly become cluttered topics not directly related to the main post :p (pretty please?)
For everyone upset at the non-movement of capital ships with a hyperdrive, keep in mind these are working concepts, and yes we did notice a lot of people object to that debuff.

The overdrive effect is also already in the game (I listed it simply because it is part of the overall plan)

The numbers I listed for the thruster blocks, i didn't aim for accuracy, i only meant to show the point of the intended change, please try to avoid number crunching those for your own mental health's sake.

The thrust supply/drain systems are entirely a concept. They do function differently from the push/pull in that they don't attempt to control the other ships movements, it only modifys their movement while giving your own ship the opposing effect, this can be useful for example in a tussle between two fighters to slow the opponents access to max thrust, while granting yourself that thrust, giving you a likely dominant edge in maneuverability.

 

[Criss]

You pretty much just described the jump drive...,
also, again, please try to keep the suggestions to a minimum on this thread, as if we start doing that it will quickly become cluttered topics not directly related to the main post :p (pretty please?)
For everyone upset at the non-movement of capital ships with a hyperdrive, keep in mind these are working concepts, and yes we did notice a lot of people object to that debuff.

The overdrive effect is also already in the game (I listed it simply because it is part of the overall plan)

The numbers I listed for the thruster blocks, i didn't aim for accuracy, i only meant to show the point of the intended change, please try to avoid number crunching those for your own mental health's sake.

The thrust supply/drain systems are entirely a concept. They do function differently from the push/pull in that they don't attempt to control the other ships movements, it only modifys their movement while giving your own ship the opposing effect, this can be useful for example in a tussle between two fighters to slow the opponents access to max thrust, while granting yourself that thrust, giving you a likely dominant edge in maneuverability.

Would that thrust supply beam be toggle-able? I figure it would act like the overdrive does right now where it runs till its out of power so people can fire other weapons on their hotbar.

 

[El_Poulpy]

sorry my bad i didn't got it right at first read, i inverted them in my head. That doesn't change my main point, in my opinion long distance travel methods should require exploration beforehand.

By the way i forgot to put it in my first post I agree with the thruster mechanic, not so sure about the max speed, i had a similar idea for a suggestion to prevent core drilling i never posted

 

[Mork2]

I would drop the % thrust speed limit. (Hopefully the example below will be clearer)

eg. If 50% of your thrust is set forward your limited to 50% max server speed, similar for other directions. eg 10% reverse thrust limits you to 10% max server speed.

The reasoning is small ships with thrust ratios of 5:1 can split there thrust up to get good acceleration in most directions. eg thrust ratio 1:1 for forward, turn, reverse and 0.5:1 ratio for the other 4 facings. Thus a small high thrust to mass ratio ship can hit max server speed in all directions.

Any massive ship will generally have thrust ratio of under 1 and have a good chance of not having enough thrust to hit max server speed anyway or take a very long time.

 

[Criss]

My suggestion for directional thrust would be to drop the max speed limit as a % of thrust in that direction is limited to the same % of max server speed in that direction. The reasoning is small ships with thrust ratios of 5 can split there thrust up to get good acceleration in most directions. Any massive ship will generally have thrust ratio of under 1 and have a good chance of not having enough thrust to hit max server speed anyway or take a very long time.

You're going to have to reword that. I can't follow what you're saying at all in that first sentence.

 

[Byamarro]

It's cool that You prepare to finally make serious movement system. But what about crafting tree? I would want to see it balanced, not like now.

 

[Aecetym]

The change to thrust blocks we are considering is to make the thrust gained per block linear, while putting the power usage on an exponentially increasing curve.​

1 thrust block = 5 ship thrust & 5 power used
100 thrust blocks = 5000 ship thrust and 7500 power used
*Rough example*​

What this means is that ships can achieve higher amounts of thrust with the same number of blocks that they have now, however, this increase comes with an even higher cost to power the more thrust blocks their are on a ship. However, larger ships incurring this larger power usage can mitigate this power usage by slowing down when they need more power, or stopping entirely.

This is the change that I would like to ask for your opinions on in the comments below.
Thank you.
​

So on what exactly is the thrust powercost calculated? The total amount of thrust blocks or individual groupings of thrustblocks?

Cause if it is calculated on just the total amount of thrust then you killed smart design with it.

 

[SmilingDemon]

Gates :

I do not like the idea of getting propelled somewhere and beeing scraped on arival, because someone thought it a fun idea to reduce the receiver to a 1 Block Ring!
Make the sending gate size related and the receiver some kind of targeting beacon for the first gate to open a hole in space (or whatever lore)

Hyper drive :

Jumping space stations are not fun ... so 0% is no good idea ... make it feel more like a very slow spacewhale

 

[Criss]

Gates :

I do not like the idea of getting propelled somewhere and beeing scraped on arival, because someone thought it a fun idea to reduce the receiver to a 1 Block Ring!
Make the sending gate size related and the receiver some kind of targeting beacon for the first gate to open a hole in space (or whatever lore)

Hyper drive :

Jumping space stations are not fun ... so 0% is no good idea ... make it feel more like a very slow spacewhale

To address your first point, it will probably not work that way for that very reason. If it does then maybe we can get a warning of some sort beforehand.

As for your second point, it's already been addressed by Schema.

 

[SmilingDemon]

@Vanhelzing Only because he "adressed" it, makes me agree with him :P .. i would simply be more comfortable with beeing able to manouver a capital ship (of which i most likely wont build one, cause i do not buid that big ) into a orbital position or something like that.

 

[Crimson-Artist]

However a hyperdrive (not the one you put on ships for an 8 sec jump) will be very expensive. Capital ships with those systems are basically moving stations without some bonuses stations get. Their advantage is basically that other than stations, they can move around with the hyper drive or the normal jump drives, while stations are, well, stationary.

Sounds like our Titans will start acting more like Death Stars then we thought. one more thing, if we can steer in hyperspace wouldn't a autopilot system be in order? I don't exactly have the steadiest of hands and trying to get to a pseudo-planet sized ship to a specific location by effectively "eyeballing" it can cause its own problems.

Basically stuff like on-ship factories will have a very low value so you can place a fair amount while still being able to move around.

Basically stuff like on-ship factories

on-ship factories

Sry I can't hear you over the sound of

 

[Captain Tankman]

Gates :
Make the sending gate size related and the receiver some kind of targeting beacon for the first gate to open a hole in space (or whatever lore)

Or the ship spawns "in front of" the receiving gate to avoid being torn apart: