Lukwan
Human
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2015
- Messages
- 691
- Reaction score
- 254
(and so on...)This is what I've come up with so far. let me know what you think.
Yes. In a nut-shell, concise and comprehensive. This mechanic would get my support.
Last edited:
(and so on...)This is what I've come up with so far. let me know what you think.
I am against this idea. Everyone wants his praises for his ultimative design he made, and in the end its just a ship. Taking away freedom and creativity in my opinion so some small minded guys can say "hey that mega ship was made from ME and I AM the greatest". If this ship is good just let other have it too. Does make me remember this kindergarden allegory where one kids does not want to share his great toy with anyone else.Currently:
PlayerA sells a ship to PlayerB. At any time PlayerB could create blueprint of the ship purchased from PlayerA, and duplicate, and sell to PlayerC, PlayerD, etc... This undercuts PlayerA's time & energy, providing PlayerA with a reduced incentive to invest into designing/building/selling/repairing ships.
You do realize that everything you just posted has no bearing with the original post? Right? The suggestion said nothing about restricting ships downloaded from the CC.I am against this idea. Everyone wants his praises for his ultimative design he made, and in the end its just a ship. Taking away freedom and creativity in my opinion so some small minded guys can say "hey that mega ship was made from ME and I AM the greatest". If this ship is good just let other have it too. Does make me remember this kindergarden allegory where one kids does not want to share his great toy with anyone else.
I mean comeon, then every second ship I download from the community content has the "do not copy"flag? Why should I then still download this. If the variable is not in the blueprint but only on the server and temporary its cool for me, but this is not requested from the OP. But everthing else just cuts away too much freedom and the ability to learn from others, for some guys who are just too proud of themself.
I mean if you said that it is ok to save the blueprint and spawn the ship in your own survival world it would be ok for me too. But you want to add a system that takes away too much for gaining just a little bit of being proud (and rp does not count because most of people joining rp servers obey the rules freely and behave mature enough for not needing such hand-holding).
You kinda missed the point.I am against this idea. Everyone wants his praises for his ultimative design he made, and in the end its just a ship. Taking away freedom and creativity in my opinion so some small minded guys can say "hey that mega ship was made from ME and I AM the greatest". If this ship is good just let other have it too. Does make me remember this kindergarden allegory where one kids does not want to share his great toy with anyone else.
I mean comeon, then every second ship I download from the community content has the "do not copy"flag? Why should I then still download this. If the variable is not in the blueprint but only on the server and temporary its cool for me, but this is not requested from the OP. But everthing else just cuts away too much freedom and the ability to learn from others, for some guys who are just too proud of themself.
I mean if you said that it is ok to save the blueprint and spawn the ship in your own survival world it would be ok for me too. But you want to add a system that takes away too much for gaining just a little bit of being proud (and rp does not count because most of people joining rp servers obey the rules freely and behave mature enough for not needing such hand-holding).
How exactly is it too complicated? You spawn a ship and set a condition to disallow copying or saving to blueprint. The buyer is now unable to save your ship design.Ok to clearify myself: I just think its a too complicated system that can go wrong in too many ways. If its not implemented totally correct and with 500000 side rules it would take away too much for me, and that's why I am against this. As I stated: if its temporary variable only present on a server it would be cool for me, but in no other way that includes saving the variable into the ship core or blueprint.
You need to read the previous parts of the discussion then.Ok to clearify myself: I just think its a too complicated system that can go wrong in too many ways. If its not implemented totally correct and with 500000 side rules it would take away too much for me, and that's why I am against this. As I stated: if its temporary variable only present on a server it would be cool for me, but in no other way that includes saving the variable into the ship core or blueprint.
Too complicated? Hmm, maybe if we re-frame this a bit then:...
edit: Ok to clearify myself: I just think its a too complicated system that can go wrong in too many ways. If its not implemented totally correct and with 500000 side rules it would take away too much for me, and that's why I am against this. As I stated: if its temporary variable only present on a server it would be cool for me, but in no other way that includes saving the variable into the ship core or blueprint.
If a builder likes to share his or her constructed items with the rest of the world copy free it be still an option.I am against this idea. Everyone wants his praises for his ultimative design he made, and in the end its just a ship. Taking away freedom and creativity in my opinion so some small minded guys can say "hey that mega ship was made from ME and I AM the greatest". If this ship is good just let other have it too. Does make me remember this kindergarden allegory where one kids does not want to share his great toy with anyone else.
I mean comeon, then every second ship I download from the community content has the "do not copy"flag? Why should I then still download this. I know as admin I should being able to change that flag - but as this is not 100% that it gets implemented this way its too much of a risk for me! If the variable is not in the blueprint but only on the server and temporary its cool for me, but this is not requested from the OP.But everthing else just cuts away too much freedom and the ability to learn from others, for some guys who are just too proud of themself.
I mean if you said that it is ok to save the blueprint and spawn the ship in your own survival world it would be ok for me too. But you want to add a system that takes away too much for gaining just a little bit of being proud (and rp does not count because most of people joining rp servers obey the rules freely and behave mature enough for not needing such hand-holding).
edit: Ok to clearify myself: I just think its a too complicated system that can go wrong in too many ways. If its not implemented totally correct and with 500000 side rules it would take away too much for me, and that's why I am against this. As I stated: if its temporary variable only present on a server it would be cool for me, but in no other way that includes saving the variable into the ship core or blueprint.
silly question but for the lolzIf this ship is good just let other have it too. Does make me remember this kindergarden allegory where one kids does not want to share his great toy with anyone else.
Good question. It brings up a point I have wanted to make, so I will answer.I mean comeon, then every second ship I download from the community content has the "do not copy"flag? Why should I then still download this.
Thus, The "Whammy Effect"...Good question. It brings up a point I have wanted to make, so I will answer.
I can think of a logical reason why you would indeed want to post a Licenced BP on the dock and its the very same reason for wanting protection on a server. A builder wants to share a build with everyone but keep it 'pristine' and original. As a player downloading that protected ship this is what you get: the use of and repair-rights to a cool build that is full of design ideas that you want to see first hand (and otherwise would never have seen at all). You can pour over the ship test-drive it, fly it into combat, race it and all the while see what makes it tick. This applies to beauty-builds especially because they are standing in for fine art.
Be grateful for what you have. Someone spent a lot of time making that ship and they may want to share it with you. They may not, however, feel comfortable with you modifying it or mass producing it. Under the current system that builder will be less likely to share those types of builds so it is likely those ships will never see the light of day (or the dock).
"It's a Thing!" :D (your theme music here)The "Whammy Effect"
That level of "truly knowing" is beyond what's needed for reverse engineering. All you need is for a copy to be functionally indistinguishable by anyone using/observing them.Actually, Jojomo, in order to truly know every inch of a vessel, enough to duplicate it, you have to tear it down to the structure. You have to track individual rivets to be perfectly accurate. You have to rip out the walls to get at wiring, pipes, you name it, the ship has it.
Sometimes, but in others we have to do it for an entire ship that wasn't designed by us, for an owner who's hiring us for a replacement design.You are working from a design you already have, tracing a few modifications. What I'm trying to prevent is the large-scale copying of sections of a ship, that effectively makes innovation worthless.
That's your opinion. I disagree, it isn't fine.And it's just FINE if we slow down "arms races"! Especially since they should not be "Oh, they've got something better. Quick, let's go steal one using a spy in the faction!" Instead, they should take time and effort, and make it so that, instead of having a metaphorical Germany just make a copy of a stolen (Good luck) Iron Duke-class battleship, Germany takes what it has learned from indirect means, and applies it to produce a Baden-class with a few improvements compared to the original.
Preventing copy/pasting will harm ship design innovation in the game as a whole.You build a ship/station/structure, and when saving the bluprint, at which time you select one of these three options.
- Create "original blueprint" which allows full repair, copy, editing, CC upload etc. Basically full ownership of the design.
- Create "blueprint copy"; used for spawning a single entity but does not allow copying, CC upload or repair. You have to go to the manufacturer for service.
- Create "licensed blueprint" used for spawning a single entity and allowing other shipyards to repair it. Copying and CC upload are not permitted.
I find it totally rational to not read 10 sites of discussion and expect OP to update his request if the discussion changed it.You need to read the previous parts of the discussion then.
We clearly stated that this is server side; for the propose of in-game security, possible shipwrights' markets and to stop plagiarism. Where in all of our discussion are we taking anything from you that you would not already be without?
Please explain your point of view rationally. Don't let a knee jerk emotional reaction get the better of you.
We are not obligated to share JinM. We may choose to share but that is our choice; not your right. With that said, you are more than welcome to continue to use community content. That's what it's there for. Other than naming the original artist, we are not proposing a change to CC. Just like before; if a designer doesn't want to share, their builds won't be on CC. So you lose nothing by this idea. You will however gain access to builds that won't ever be on CC. The only catch is that you can't take them off the server you got them on. The knowledge you get is yours to keep though.I find it totally rational to not read 10 sites of discussion and expect OP to update his request if the discussion changed it.
What is taken from me is obvious: I want the freedom of design and copying designs from others, I want not to have some bit in any blueprint or ship core meta data changed so I get restricted in building even with others guys stuff. It would destroy the purpose of downloading or locking at other peoples ships if every 2nd guy flags it as non-copy. And dont come with this "its plagiarism and all of that its my creation stuff" - this is a common misconception: if you create something it should not be copied in games, but you actually want this no-laws given environment in games, because its the only place you are free within our society. - Why do you play a game? Because you can do things you can't do in real life. Starting to cut everyones freedom with this blueprint saving rules, does exactly what you don't want: you want freedom more than every risk of having regulations to fear of using some copyrighted material. Trust me, if you would experience the blueprint-save regulation once implemented, the next guy come with the next regulation. And then everything gets regulated. Better don't take this risk at all and life with some guys who just copy stuff from time to time in my opinion.
Since you asked; Yes. It does negatively impact my gaming experience.Ah ja and to question your motives:
Why does it hurt you if some1 copies your blueprint on a server? Does it take away money? Does he insult you? (actually he honors you but you just want to see the negative side...) Does it cut your rp experience?
Your inability to understand our intentions does not make them bad intentions. Read my update to the suggestion; it will be the one with 3 blueprint types. Read the whole thing, understand how it works, then get back to us. I will be more than happy to break it down into simpler terms for you, should you need that.If its server side its fine, but because the thing is too complicated and many side rules must be taken into account, I am totally against it. If it was only server side its fine, but OP did not state this in his starting post and until he does not learn to use the edit function I have a right of my opinion. Also I would still be against it, because the devs might implement it in a "not server side way" and that is risk I don't want to take.
And don't get me wrong: I am writing emotional, because I can't believe the majority thinks even taking one step into this road of regulation and cutting away freedom for security is good, because they care so much about their little ships they don't want to share with others. Guys it's only about ships in Starmade, be proud if some1 else likes the design instead of being so selfish and cry for drm functions.
Sooo. What you're saying is; you don't fully understand what we're suggesting and that scares you?You are totally ignoring my fears Dr. Whammy.
And if OP can't update its post just stop complaining about me not actually understanding. This DRM stuff is bad. And not the easy kind of bad, the kind of bad that actually does the opposite of improving Starmade as a whole.
Words from your own mouth Jo. You say it yourself; touring a ship with a tape-measure and a practiced eye is all you need to glean the desired information. So why do you suppose this is not good enough in SM? You don't need to copy my BP, you can just take some notes and a selfie. :pReverse engineering a ship (ocean) in real life doesn't require disassembly. They're large enough that you can move through them and measure and record any data needed. We sometimes reverse-engineer parts of a ship (because a shipyard may actually have built something slightly different to the design we gave them and we need to update our files to match, or an owner may ask us to make sure a new design has the same or better structural characteristics than the ship being replaced) purely from photos and notes taken inside the ship by one of our engineers.
Don't give in to your fears, this way leads to the dark side.You are totally ignoring my fears Dr. Whammy.
Man I really tried to explain it. And I am tired, maybe some other day I might be more comprehensible.We are not obligated to share JinM. We may choose to share but that is our choice; not your right. With that said, you are more than welcome to continue to use community content. That's what it's there for. Other than naming the original artist, we are not proposing a change to CC. Just like before; if a designer doesn't want to share, their builds won't be on CC. So you lose nothing by this idea. You will however gain access to builds that won't ever be on CC. The only catch is that you can't take them off the server you got them on. The knowledge you get is yours to keep though.
Read my update to the suggestion; it will be the one with 3 blueprint types.