Planned Capital Ships and Motherships

[Deserea]

The Mothership is the same as it used to be in the original thread, the only problem with the original were the Capitals as they were effectively Motherships that weren't Motherships. Giant factions could make their own Motherships, which again, reinforces the idea of one base living, which we're trying to remove. They were too similar to Motherships, and ultimately what brought the suggestion down.

I can imagine that the class limiting is the real problem with Capitals, but do you have any ideas to improve it, other than get rid of it? Capitals in this thread are now seen as faction mega ships, so they need to be limited to prevent the effect from the old Capitals, and to prevent complete server domination with a single ship.
Remove the hijack, immediately

Yea, remove quite a few of the limitations.^^ Though at some point i could swear you had a few other things in the thread. Like carriers and such where slower, and those were my worst complaints.

1.)Cargo Space can be on any of the ships, all ships need to carry stuff, and having a capital sized cargo space be limited to just a few "Classes" of capital ships is backwards, as /all/ ships of any size carry massive amounts of cargo.
2.)Foundry And Refinery im fine with as is factor ships are something i would like to see and obviously they should be specialized as such, and only be able to be used on that class(cant be placed on a carrier etc, mothership yes).
3.)Hangar this would be very useless as players can already build hangars that can hold drones/fighters, or even bigger ships if they so wish, and it provides nothing for the ship in question, combine this with the shipyard.
4.) Shipyards, this should only be on motherships, or limited to carrier class ships only, and cant build ships at all when under attack, to prevent the owner of the capital ship from endlessly spamming drones/fighters
5.)Capital Weapon Computers, and Capital weapon Turret mounts, Limiting these to one ship type makes them also a bit pointless in my opinion, all capital ships should have access to these. Carriers do have weapons, and a capital ship carrier, which will already be slower than hell because of its size alone, should be able to stand up to another capital ships attacks and fight back if need be, with the same level of weaponry.
Not sure on the clone pod, id like to see that available to all ships of any size, if they have the power and room for it of course.

Technically, Battlecruisers and Battleships are also capital ships, in most scifi universes at least, and i think thats why the current system works. You can make whatever you want, if you have the time to do so skill and know how. Making it so that you now must make a certain type of ship to do X and get Y equipment is not really any fun for most players and it certainly limits builders even more, in a game about building things.

From what i understand when it comes to big ship fights, as it is, is that they end pretty quickly, so why on earth would cannon mounts that increase damage be a thing thats needed at all when the current gameplay for big ships is meh? (might be wrong, wouldnt mind being corrected if i am)

 

[kookster]

The Mothership is the same as it used to be in the original thread, the only problem with the original were the Capitals as they were effectively Motherships that weren't Motherships. Giant factions could make their own Motherships, which again, reinforces the idea of one base living, which we're trying to remove. They were too similar to Motherships, and ultimately what brought the suggestion down.

I can imagine that the class limiting is the real problem with Capitals, but do you have any ideas to improve it, other than get rid of it? Capitals in this thread are now seen as faction mega ships, so they need to be limited to prevent the effect from the old Capitals, and to prevent complete server domination with a single ship.



It appears that me making myself sound friendly caused a bit of confusion. Thread hijacking is one of the rudest and most shameful you can do on any forums, thus, that was me asking you to remove that friendly little message. However, it was my mistake to create the confusion, so I'll make it blindingly obvious. :p

Remove the hijack, immediately

I am not trying to hijack your thread. I am giving people a link to more info, that might give them further perspective on this general topic since our threads relate to the same thing just going about it in a slightly different manner. I was originally going to post that idea in this thread but i decided not too. Take it however you want. All I want is one way or another to have station parts on ships.

 

[Blaza612]

1.)Cargo Space can be on any of the ships, all ships need to carry stuff, and having a capital sized cargo space be limited to just a few "Classes" of capital ships is backwards, as /all/ ships of any size carry massive amounts of cargo.

I can see where you're coming at, but there needs to be a way to create giant hauling ships, which can ship a ridiculous amount of stuff everywhere. If we give say a Dreadnought or Supercarrier the cargo space of what would be a freighter, then why bother making a hauling ship, just move it all in said Dreadnought or Supercarrier.

3.)Hangar this would be very useless as players can already build hangars that can hold drones/fighters, or even bigger ships if they so wish, and it provides nothing for the ship in question, combine this with the shipyard.

Just realized this, thanks for pointing out the mistake with that. Forgot about rails and docking when writing that. :p

4.) Shipyards, this should only be on motherships, or limited to carrier class ships only, and cant build ships at all when under attack, to prevent the owner of the capital ship from endlessly spamming drones/fighters

I do like the idea of doing that, however at a rate where a battle wouldn't last indefinitely. I did ask about what people think as a different means of limiting them, which was have the material inefficiency and time inefficiency go up as the size of the shipyard increases, with the base being worse than the standard shipyard, however, haven't got any opinions on that. Basically it'd create an inventive to use smaller, drone/fighter ships rather than say a frigate or cruiser.

5.)Capital Weapon Computers, and Capital weapon Turret mounts, Limiting these to one ship type makes them also a bit pointless in my opinion, all capital ships should have access to these. Carriers do have weapons, and a capital ship carrier, which will already be slower than hell because of its size alone, should be able to stand up to another capital ships attacks and fight back if need be, with the same level of weaponry.

Again, this is to prevent a one ship destroyer of everything. I find it silly that a Supercarrier would have a mega-gun, along with it's swarm of drones/fighters. Drones/fighters are easily more powerful than say a Dreadnought, it's been shown multiple times that a group of drones, not even equal to the mass of the ship they're taking on, can easily overcome even the most powerful enemies. Allowing Supercarriers to use these, AND fire mega-guns, would simply make an unstoppable ship.

Not sure on the clone pod, id like to see that available to all ships of any size, if they have the power and room for it of course.

I'm not entirely sure on it either, I kind of want to give it to all ships, but then a clone bay on a Dreadnought just doesn't sound right. :p

Technically, Battlecruisers and Battleships are also capital ships, in most scifi universes at least, and i think thats why the current system works. You can make whatever you want, if you have the time to do so skill and know how. Making it so that you now must make a certain type of ship to do X and get Y equipment is not really any fun for most players and it certainly limits builders even more, in a game about building things.

I've usually seen Battlecruisers and Battleships as sub-capital, but that's irrelevant to what I want to say. :p

I know of this, the only problem, is that we need to prevent EVERYTHING being on one ship, there needs to be some way to stop that. Yes, it may be limiting, but we need to limit things when we come to the OP spectrum of ships, these Capitals can already be obscenely powerful with their weaponry, it'd just be worse if we have everything allowed on every type of ship, and it'd especially just reinforce the idea of one space living, because it'd essentially be a homebase away from home. There needs to be some sort of limit, so if you have any ideas on how to make a better limit, then please say so. :p

From what i understand when it comes to big ship fights, as it is, is that they end pretty quickly, so why on earth would cannon mounts that increase damage be a thing thats needed at all when the current gameplay for big ships is meh? (might be wrong, wouldnt mind being corrected if i am)

They actually tend to take quite a while. :p

Like carriers and such where slower, and those were my worst complaints.

I don't understand how you saw that originally. :p
[DOUBLEPOST=1451366475,1451365866][/DOUBLEPOST]

I am not trying to hijack your thread. I am giving people a link to more info, that might give them further perspective on this general topic since our threads relate to the same thing just going about it in a slightly different manner. I was originally going to post that idea in this thread but i decided not too. Take it however you want. All I want is one way or another to have station parts on ships.

Dammit, now I actually need to read the thread. :p

Yeah, our suggestions are rather similar, in the fact that yours is almost identical to the Mothership part of the thread. Everything in your thread is also for Motherships, except for the extra block. The limits are only for Capital Ships, not Motherships, which I think is actually causing confusion, with that confusion being a big source of people not liking this suggestion. :p

I will state this again, Capital Ships, being different from Motherships, are end-game large faction ships that are supposed to be expensive, but VERY powerful, thus requiring the limits. Motherships, are a small factions (1-3 members) homebase, that allows for a nomadic lifestyle, being able to use all current station stuff (Except for gates of course), and anchor, becoming invulnerable.

 

[kookster]

Dammit, now I actually need to read the thread. :p

Yeah, our suggestions are rather similar, in the fact that yours is almost identical to the Mothership part of the thread. Everything in your thread is also for Motherships, except for the extra block. The limits are only for Capital Ships, not Motherships, which I think is actually causing confusion, with that confusion being a big source of people not liking this suggestion. :p

I will state this again, Capital Ships, being different from Motherships, are end-game large faction ships that are supposed to be expensive, but VERY powerful, thus requiring the limits. Motherships, are a small factions (1-3 members) homebase, that allows for a nomadic lifestyle, being able to use all current station stuff (Except for gates of course), and anchor, becoming invulnerable.

See something was gained! Woot! Yeah I like your idea. I just feel some it needs a little simplifying and yeah, i dont need to keep talking you read the post, nuff said.

 

[Blaza612]

See something was gained! Woot!

:p

I just feel some it needs a little simplifying and yeah

The question is, what exactly do you think needs to be simplified, I personally see it as quite simple, but then again, I'm me. :p

 

[kookster]

:p



The question is, what exactly do you think needs to be simplified, I personally see it as quite simple, but then again, I'm me. :p

How about you update your original post to make what you said needed some clarifying and I'll read over it again and give you any input I have.

 

[Blaza612]

How about you update your original post to make what you said needed some clarifying and I'll read over it again and give you any input I have.

Alrighty then, I've rewritten almost everything, in an attempt to make everything a hell of a lot clearer. Hopefully I succeeded. :p

 

[kookster]

Alrighty then, I've rewritten almost everything, in an attempt to make everything a hell of a lot clearer. Hopefully I succeeded. :p

Reading...
[DOUBLEPOST=1451372596,1451371996][/DOUBLEPOST]Ok so this is in response to the Capitol ship part.
I personally don't like the idea of unique blocks to certain entities. If you have a block it should work on all unless it doesnt make sense like a warp gate on a moving object. But otherwise I like where you are going with this. So my proposed change to your idea is forget the nerfs/buffs for capitols but instead introduce a few new systems. one system I would say is a system that allows you to lock your ship in place without worrying about it moving. Maybe it links to your thrusters? I dunno but thats the way I think it would make more sense to go. I do think another more advanced armor might not be a bad idea, but lets not restrict it to capitols, some might want to do actual armor tank vehicles that dont rely on shields but can actually take a bloody battle with just armor. And the last thing I have to say about capitol related stuff for now is the jump drives, once again lets not add another system but i think we should adapt it and improve it. Honestly I think the way it works now makes no sense and to make it make even more sense with the whole capitol ship stuff is the more jump modules you have the farther you can jump. Same charge time no matter what. the more modules the farther you can go. Ok feel free to reply im going to read on to motherships. Cheers.

[Edit]
I think I will read the rest tomorrow, I am curious about your reply and I am passing out. So thinking might not be working the best.

 

[Deserea]

I can see where you're coming at, but there needs to be a way to create giant hauling ships, which can ship a ridiculous amount of stuff everywhere. If we give say a Dreadnought or Supercarrier the cargo space of what would be a freighter, then why bother making a hauling ship, just move it all in said Dreadnought or Supercarrier.

Again, this is to prevent a one ship destroyer of everything. I find it silly that a Supercarrier would have a mega-gun, along with it's swarm of drones/fighters. Drones/fighters are easily more powerful than say a Dreadnought, it's been shown multiple times that a group of drones, not even equal to the mass of the ship they're taking on, can easily overcome even the most powerful enemies. Allowing Supercarriers to use these, AND fire mega-guns, would simply make an unstoppable ship.

I know of this, the only problem, is that we need to prevent EVERYTHING being on one ship, there needs to be some way to stop that. Yes, it may be limiting, but we need to limit things when we come to the OP spectrum of ships, these Capitals can already be obscenely powerful with their weaponry, it'd just be worse if we have everything allowed on every type of ship, and it'd especially just reinforce the idea of one space living, because it'd essentially be a homebase away from home. There needs to be some sort of limit, so if you have any ideas on how to make a better limit, then please say so. :p

I don't understand how you saw that originally. :p

For the freighters, speed, thats the limit, you can now only have so much thrust per ship, before *needing* to used docked entities and supply units. I dont think anybody would enjoy going 5ms during an attack because they overloaded their dreadnought with stuff they looted off of the enemies they killed. I know i already have a freighter in the works because of such things for my SP game!

I dont however, but most of the scifi stuff i read is W40k, and the Emperor Class Battleship is both a battleship and a carrier, and has very many big guns. Is it weaker than a pure battleship in weapons sure, but it has weapons capable of dealing with other ships equal in size, and straight up carriers are such a rarity in that universe that they are basically non existent anymore.. Perhaps limit the weapon mounts on non Dreadnought Class capital ships. say to 1-2, or even 2-4, depending on how big they are, This allowing Carriers to still have one or two big cannons, but still be weaker in alpha damage than a Dreadnought!

Perhaps for a ship class(back to first point), you could just have Hauler class? Massive freighter/factory/mining vessel, and have a capital mining array/salvage array, which gives a bonus to salvaging overheated ships(as in it gets to salvage the blocks instead of scrap. It however gets limited to 0 Capital ship mounts, but, it gets no negatives when compared to a station factory, except for a massively increased power drain per factory module placed and active.(unless anchored of course), would allow players who wish to play a support role do so without having to do so in a combat situation.

 

[Blaza612]

If you have a block it should work on all unless it doesnt make sense like a warp gate on a moving object.

The problem is that again, you get ships that are OP and you just end up reinforcing the idea of one base living for large factions. :/

instead introduce a few new systems

One problem with this, if instead of having station stuff on Capitals, and we're just introducing a bunch of new systems, then that kinda defeats the purpose of all the Capitals. The point of the Capitals, originally, was to make mobile stations. Now, end-game mega ships, but with specialized classes. I personally want a giant Capital Industrial ship, which can hold a fleet of miners, refine and produce all on one ship, and bring everything back to wherever it's stationed. However, adding new systems is never a bad idea, I simply can't think of any. :p

one system I would say is a system that allows you to lock your ship in place without worrying about it moving

That's either not moving, or anchoring. :p

advanced armor might not be a bad idea, but lets not restrict it to capitols

The problem, is that if that becomes the case, then it's no longer relevant to the suggestion, and thus must be thrown out. What could work, is if the sub-capital didn't require the multi-block thing for the armour to work.

more jump modules you have the farther you can jump. Same charge time no matter what. the more modules the farther you can go.

I like this idea, quite a lot. I imagine that there'd be a limit on how far you can jump though, because being able to jump to a different galaxy in a single charge would be ridiculous. :p

For the freighters, speed, thats the limit, you can now only have so much thrust per ship, before *needing* to used docked entities and supply units. I dont think anybody would enjoy going 5ms during an attack because they overloaded their dreadnought with stuff they looted off of the enemies they killed. I know i already have a freighter in the works because of such things for my SP game!

Mkay, so I'll make the cargo universal, except that it has 1.5x mass than standard cargo, to make ships even slower. These kinds of limits are far better than hard limits, so any others you can come up with would be great. At the moment, I'm not inspired, so I can't think of anything new for the time being, so I'll have to rely on the community for this. :p

Perhaps limit the weapon mounts on non Dreadnought Class capital ships. say to 1-2, or even 2-4, depending on how big they are, This allowing Carriers to still have one or two big cannons, but still be weaker in alpha damage than a Dreadnought!

Already allowed Capital Weapon Mounts on Supercarriers and Capital Industrial ships as well, except they have a reduced buff

Massive freighter/factory/mining vessel

The thing is, I don't like the idea of a Capital Industrial ship also being a Freighter, it just doesn't work in my mind.

capital mining array/salvage array

The hope for the Capital Industrial, was that since it's so massive, it can't turn so well, so, mining turrets/drones would ultimately be the way to go. I'll add something else to the universal category though, which'll provide boosts to fleets, and allow all Capitals to act as a support role for a fleet.

 

[kookster]

The problem is that again, you get ships that are OP and you just end up reinforcing the idea of one base living for large factions. :/

I dont see the one base thing as a issue. People don't like to split their efforts. This can change as a faction grows. Now about them being OP, I dont think they would be, adding station blocks adds size and mass which has its big downsides to a ship manueverability and thrust. I feel that would be enough of a balancing fact.

One problem with this, if instead of having station stuff on Capitals, and we're just introducing a bunch of new systems, then that kinda defeats the purpose of all the Capitals. The point of the Capitals, originally, was to make mobile stations. Now, end-game mega ships, but with specialized classes. I personally want a giant Capital Industrial ship, which can hold a fleet of miners, refine and produce all on one ship, and bring everything back to wherever it's stationed. However, adding new systems is never a bad idea, I simply can't think of any. :p

The point of the new systems is kind of to make the ship a capitol ship. Pretty much having this system kind means its a serious business. We can make these systems really bloody expensive too. One of the systems im talking about is the anchoring system. I also want a mobile base. Im a nomad.

That's either not moving, or anchoring. :p

The whole point of that system was to use it to anchor. Just use legit blocks to do it was my point.

The problem, is that if that becomes the case, then it's no longer relevant to the suggestion, and thus must be thrown out. What could work, is if the sub-capital didn't require the multi-block thing for the armour to work.

Yeah i would scrap the multi block part, but i still think if you can put it on one ship why not another.

I like this idea, quite a lot. I imagine that there'd be a limit on how far you can jump though, because being able to jump to a different galaxy in a single charge would be ridiculous. :p

Diminishing returns, bam done.

Looking forward to your reply. Cheers.

 

[Blaza612]

I dont see the one base thing as a issue. People don't like to split their efforts. This can change as a faction grows. Now about them being OP, I dont think they would be, adding station blocks adds size and mass which has its big downsides to a ship manueverability and thrust. I feel that would be enough of a balancing fact.

Schine is trying to move the game away from one base living, where you'll need multiple stations with NPCs running around in order to actually sustain a faction. If we can just have a Mothership that isn't a Mothership, then that a) defeats the purpose of a Mothership and b) allows people to circumvent the fact that they'll need to live in a system, rather than a station. The faction side of gameplay will be moving towards more empire building, and having babby Motherships simply wont work with that.

The point of the new systems is kind of to make the ship a capitol ship. Pretty much having this system kind means its a serious business. We can make these systems really bloody expensive too. One of the systems im talking about is the anchoring system.

That was also the point of the Capital Components. Provide expensive, but powerful parts that make Capitals "serious business". :p

I also want a mobile base. Im a nomad.

Motherships boi

Yeah i would scrap the multi block part, but i still think if you can put it on one ship why not another.

When you say scrap it, do you mean for the armour overall, or for sub-capitals.

Diminishing returns, bam done.

:p

 

[Blaza612]

Bump for more discussion, I would like to be able to actually build a mobile shipyard at some point. :p

 

[MacThule]

Your suggestion is well presented and understandable; I simply deeply disagree with the thrust of it. Sorry.

IMO, if anything needs "class-defining" "massive" buff blocks, its stations or planets - stations can't even survive against ships ATM without being artificially invulnerable. Neither can planets. Ships already outclass planets and stations, buffing them even more extensively and giving them station/planet functionality seems completely uncalled for.

I'm pretty sure that implementing even the majority of this proposal would result in 1) an even more pervasive mono-culture of titans and less variety in shipbuilding (material thresholds and prerequisites would probably not deter this), and 2) the end of stations and planets for anything other than decoration/RP and thus even stronger mono-culture.

Why? Because who in their right mind would ever waste time flying a 50K mass non-capital ship when flying a capital ship with the same mass would be "massively" tougher and more powerful at the same block levels??? This is a recipe to deeply penalize players for using stations, planets, or any entity that is NOT a "capital" ship.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

WAAAAAAY too complicated.

What I agree with:
- Designation as Capital, anchor/unanchor status.
- Mothership mechanics (as homebase)
- Availability of shipyard, factory and refinery.

What I think needs simplifying:
- No "Capital" parts. Station systems except warp gates should function normally on a Capital, except ONLY when anchored. Otherwise, an error message "System powered down while moving" pops up.
- No Capital weapons and turret mounts. Again, too complicated.
- Capital/Mothership's main weapons and jump drive must be disabled in anchored mode, allowing only logic and turret operated weapons to fire - since it can't move while anchored anyway, there isn't much of a chance for anything to be foolish enough to park in front of it. Similar to the factories and shipyard powered down while moving. "System powered down while stationary" error message.
- Top speed limited to server default speed regardless of thrust/mass ratio. Big ship. Slow ship. Deal with it. No capital thrusters.
- Promoting a ship to Capital should cost faction points or a set amount of credits per mass unit one time, and a small amount of faction points per hour to operate.
- Capital ships could only be used to claim a system while anchored.

 

[jorn818]

This is a completely rewritten suggestion, that originated from my Nomadic Revolution suggestion, which was a suggestion on the idea of adding Capital Ships or Motherships.

Please Note: None of this is final. I am willing to change ANY part of the suggestion, so long as it works and is received well with other people. If you don't like something, start a discussion here on it, and it can be changed.

Capital Ships​

Capital Ships are end-game mega ships for large factions that will be very expensive, but very powerful. Due to this, they require significant limiting to prevent them from becoming OP, which will be in the use of class-defining Capital Components, which provide massive boosts in their areas.

In order to make a ship classed as a Capital entity, one must go into the ship settings, similar to the thrust changing, and choose to upgrade to a Capital. There will be a minimum amount of resources (In capsules, mesh and composite) in order to upgrade, and attempting to upgrade will fail until the minimum is met.

- Due to this, Refineries and Micro-Assemblers will be allowed on Sub-Capital ships, as to allow a nomadic upgrade to Motherships.

Note: If near a shop, a player can supplement the resources with credits, regardless of the stock in the shop
​

Capital Ships can anchor and un-anchor. When anchored, certain Capital Components will be buffed in different ways, creating an incentive to use Capitals for Sieging/Factional wars.

- When a Capital anchors, it will have to wait 5 minutes before being able to un-anchor again. The same applies for when it un-anchors.

Note: The process of anchoring/un-anchoring is instantaneous, the timer is to prevent abuse of the switching
​

On a Capital, the standard power-gen softcap will still persist, however, power capacitors will have 2x the capacity, allowing for the large systems to run, but not infinitely.

As stated previously, there will be multiple class defining Capital Components, which supplement the station components, as a Capital cannot straight up use a station part. The costs and many of the exact numbers surrounding these will be determined by either the Devs or the community.

- Capital Cargo Space; This has 2x more space than it's non-capital counterpart, but costs significantly more. It is designed primarily for massive-scale shipping, but a Supercarrier can utilize it for it's production needs. Limits class to Freighter, Capital Industrial or Supercarrier.

- Capital Foundry; The Capital Foundry is the only factory that can be placed on Capitals, and can produce every tier of item, from basic to advanced, and can use factory enhancers like normal. There is an increased power consumption and cycle time, but when anchored, both of these are reduced, but not so much that it beats that of a station factory. When un-anchored, every cycle of production (amount produced doesn't affect this) will add 0.01 to a material inefficiency count, maxing at 200% increased material cost. Limits class to Capital Industrial.

​

- Capital Refinery; This is the capital version of a refinery. It acts almost identical to a Capital Foundry, except it refines a ridiculous amount per cycle, beating that of the station refinery without any enhancers, but not by too much. Limits Class to Capital Industrial.

- Capital Shipyard; A shipyard on a ship. It can do everything a station shipyard can, however, there will be both a time and material inefficiency. Time inefficiency will reduce the time to produce, while the material inefficiency will take away a % of materials for each block constructed. The shipyard can only produce ships when anchored. Limits class to Capital Industrial Ship and Supercarrier.

- Capital Weapons Computers; All weapons computers will have a capital counterpart, which will use the standard modules, and can still use slaves/effects without them needing a Capital computer. When un-anchored, the CPC will give weapons a 35% buff to damage and range, while reducing Rate of Fire and accuracy/tracking speed. When anchored, the CPC will give weapons a 75% buff to damage and range, with a significantly reduced Rate of Fire and accuracy/tracking speed. Limits class to Dreadnought.

- Capital Turret Mount; This is a capital version of the standard turret axis, and will buff the turret that's docked to it in the same way as the Capital Weapons Computer, except without the anchoring buff. Limits class to Dreadnought, Supercarrier and Capital Industrial.

Note: When on a Supercarrier or Capital Industrial, the buff will be reduced to 25%, instead of 35%

///CLASS LIMITING SUBJECT TO CHANGE\\\
​

Along with the class defining components, there will of course be a few universal components, that all Capital classes can use.

- Capital Thrusters; These a monstrous thrusters which require at least 125 thruster blocks connected to eachother in order to run, but generate a LOT of thrust. If fuel becomes a thing, it will use fuel, but until then, it'll simply use a large amount of power.

- Capital Jump Drive; This is a jump drive that has a far greater range with each module accounting for more mass than it's non-capital counterpart, but using much more power. The range is limited to 1.5x the standard jump range, but another member of your faction can create a jump beacon (Not sure what to call this, need suggestions) which will allow to jump as far as 4x the standard jump range, however, when one activates this beacon, everyone within a 4 system radius can see it on the galaxy map.

Note: Range is subject to change
​

- Capital Armour Plate; This is a level of armour stronger than that of advanced armour, while being more expensive and MUCH heavier. In order for the armour to actually be stronger than advanced armour, a minimum of 200 blocks must be connected as one piece.

- Fleet Booster; The Fleet Booster allows a Capital ship to provide it's allied ships in the same sector with a variety of buffs, to improve their effectiveness in a multitude of ways, via slaving a current system computer to determine the buff, and the % of mass/blocks dedicated to Booster modules to determine the strength. For example, slaving a salvage computer will increase mining speeds.​

Overall, the purpose of a Capital is to provide an end-game mega-ship experience for larger factions, to allow for larger scale war/operations, and opening up new styles of gameplay, from mining fleets to siege fleets.

Motherships​

Motherships are a small factions (1-3 members) homebase, that allows for a Nomadic lifestyle by being a ship, and thus being mobile. It's able to use all of the current station parts, at base efficiency, and cannot use and/or is not limited to the Capital Modules, allowing players to build their home as they choose.

- With regards to my Homebase Vulnerability suggestion, the Faction block will also have an inventory, for it's own Mothership unique items to be put in.​

To acquire a Mothership, you must first have a Capital classed entity. Once this is done, on the Faction block, you will have the option to set the Capital as the homebase, this will turn the Capital into a Mothership.

- If a faction already has a home, or more than three members, then this will fail, and the ship will remain as a Capital.​

Like a Capital, a Mothership can anchor or un-anchor, when un-anchored, the Mothership will be fully vulnerable, and all station systems will run at 95% efficiency. When anchored, the Mothership will be invulnerable, and all station systems will run at 105% efficiency, creating an incentive to anchor.

- When un-anchored, a Mothership will only be shown on the galaxy map, if seen or scanned
- When anchored, a Mothership will be shown once a player enters the system it's anchored in

- This will remain indefinitely, but will only update if the conditions have been met again.
- This can be used to sell their location, once map discovery/sharing becomes a thing.​

- When a Mothership anchors, like a Capital, it'll have to wait 5 minutes before un-anchoring. Same goes for un-anchoring.

​

A Mothership will have a faction member count (FMC) limit, which will have a range of effects once it goes beyond 3 members.

- At an FMC greater than 3, the Mothership will start to become inefficient, increasing as the FMC increases
- At an FMC greater than or equal to 5, the Mothership's armour HP will slowly decrease, and will actively use resources to prevent this. Members will also start to be fatigued, where they will move slower, and their inventories will shrink as the FMC increases.
- At an FMC greater than 6, the Mothership loses it's invulnerability from anchoring.
- At an FMC greater than or equal to 8, the Mothership will be put on the galaxy map for all players

​

These effects will allow Motherships to be used with ease by small factions, giving them the option to live a Nomadic lifestyle, while providing large factions with an incentive to settle down, and become a proper faction, opening up Capital Ships to them.

Overall, the purpose of a Mothership is to provide small factions with an edge over large factions, in the sense that they can avoid those that wish to destroy them, while providing the unique Nomadic experience for those who desire it.

Sure thats all good, but where is the poop part of all this

 

[Blaza612]

IMO, if anything needs "class-defining" "massive" buff blocks, its stations or planets - stations can't even survive against ships ATM without being artificially invulnerable. Neither can planets. Ships already outclass planets and stations, buffing them even more extensively and giving them station/planet functionality seems completely uncalled for.

I do agree, however, IIRC, stations are going to be receiving MASSIVE buffs, in order to improve everything in general, from defenses to utility, especially if one specializes a station into one specific utility.

Why? Because who in their right mind would ever waste time flying a 50K mass non-capital ship when flying a capital ship with the same mass would be "massively" tougher and more powerful at the same block levels??? This is a recipe to deeply penalize players for using stations, planets, or any entity that is NOT a "capital" ship.

Because this is designed with the future economy updates in mind. I wrote (I believe I did :p) that these parts would cost MUCH more than anything else, building a Capital would be obscenely expensive, and while at the moment it may not be too big of a deal, in the future when the economy has evolved more, it will require the effort of an entire empire in order to build one, to get the workforce, the materials, etc., especially since you'll need to trade with many factions in order to get the materials/parts you need. Not only that (I'll add this part) but crew requirements would be quite big, meaning that you'll need to dedicate a pretty large portion of the ship to keeping your crew alive and well.

- No "Capital" parts. Station systems except warp gates should function normally on a Capital, except ONLY when anchored. Otherwise, an error message "System powered down while moving" pops up.

The problem here, is what MacThule talked about himself, it will only further induce the idea of one base living, especially for a big faction that will have to require multiple stations in order to survive. The reason the Capital parts are class-defining is to prevent this, and not provide a way to circumvent the need for multiple stations, and just live off of the Capital.

- No Capital weapons and turret mounts. Again, too complicated.

Please elaborate, they're quite simple if you ask me. :p

- Capital/Mothership's main weapons and jump drive must be disabled in anchored mode, allowing only logic and turret operated weapons to fire - since it can't move while anchored anyway, there isn't much of a chance for anything to be foolish enough to park in front of it. Similar to the factories and shipyard powered down while moving. "System powered down while stationary" error message.

The reason hard mounts on a Dread do also get a buff, is because I'd imagine that it would be used in sieging enemy stations/planets, where they would point their ship at the station, anchor, and then fire away, doing obscene amounts of damage. Also, I'd rather not lock people to having to anchor to use their shit, they'd be given much more freedom with anchoring just providing relief from the debuffs, making it much more efficient to build/manufacture when anchored, but not forcing them to do so.

- Top speed limited to server default speed regardless of thrust/mass ratio. Big ship. Slow ship. Deal with it. No capital thrusters.

This was written without the thrust update in mind, will add that. It was only meant to increase acceleration. :p

- Promoting a ship to Capital should cost faction points or a set amount of credits per mass unit one time, and a small amount of faction points per hour to operate.

The problem here, is that Capitals are used to create a Mothership, however, I do like the idea of it costing FP every hour. I'll put this in OP, but it wont cost any FP to convert the core into a Capital, but will require FP every hour that the ship is un-anchored (it'll add up, wont require it to be consecutive)

- Capital ships could only be used to claim a system while anchored.

Will add this in. They were never able to claim systems, now they can. :p

Sure thats all good, but where is the poop part of all this

I'm now going to be known for the one who made a shitty suggestion, aren't I. :p

However, let me add to that!

If this suggestion makes it through, this could be a poopin' lootin' shootin' shitty Supercarrier. :p
[DOUBLEPOST=1454806714,1454805108][/DOUBLEPOST]I've now added the extra stuff to the OP.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

The problem here, is what MacThule talked about himself, it will only further induce the idea of one base living, especially for a big faction that will have to require multiple stations in order to survive. The reason the Capital parts are class-defining is to prevent this, and not provide a way to circumvent the need for multiple stations, and just live off of the Capital.

I thought the whole idea behind Capitals/Mothership was EXACTLY to circumvent having to drop a station every time you want to move to another system and start mining it, and/or to allow a nomadic lifestyle for factions that wish so, including player pirates that constantly have to be on the move to avoid being hunted down. Of course as I later mention, a simple station would be cheaper to operate as they wouldn't require the faction points taken by a Capital Ship/Mothership.
You don't have to add new blocks however to have "Capital" systems, the normal blocks could have a different BlockBehaviorConfig entry for being on Capital Ships. The extra cost could go into turning a "normal" ship into a Cap.

Please elaborate, they're quite simple if you ask me.

The reason hard mounts on a Dread do also get a buff, is because I'd imagine that it would be used in sieging enemy stations/planets, where they would point their ship at the station, anchor, and then fire away, doing obscene amounts of damage. Also, I'd rather not lock people to having to anchor to use their shit, they'd be given much more freedom with anchoring just providing relief from the debuffs, making it much more efficient to build/manufacture when anchored, but not forcing them to do so.

New blocks added? No thank you. We got plenty of those, and their usage would be really narrow. Again, a modified BlockBehaviorConfig could change the DPS and power consumption of normal weapons when put on a Capital Ship. Or not - weapons can be broken already as they are, especially on humongous megaships. The fact you have a moving base is OP enough, no need to buff its weaponry too. A Dreadnaught will be distinguishable by the mere fact it has a lot more DAKKA than the rest. Added inaccuracy can be easily circumvented by adding locking missiles or auto-swarmers.
About locking systems: it's a necessary debuff to balance the already kinda big fact that you have a mobile space station, without the need to add new blocks. Also makes sense: On such a large vessel, you need to manage and divert power to various systems to operate them, and that can - and should - lead to non-critical systems being shut down depending on the situation. While moving/in combat, the factory and the shipyard are the non-critical systems that shut down to power the thrusters, FTL and weaponry. While anchored, the power from the thrusters, guns and jump drive could go to the factory and/or shipyard, and for example, give the Capital's shield extra damage reduction, much like the Ion effect, to compensate for being a sitting duck. Mind you, turrets would still be operational in both cases. Such huge vessels are better off having most of their firepower in turrets anyway, as anything but a station will be just impossible to turn onto and get a good shot at.

Stronger thrusters are unneeded. As a Capital will only use those to position itself within a sector and move larger distances using a jump drive, and spend most of its time anchored somewhere, I don't see why its sublight drives should be so significant.

 

[Blaza612]

I thought the whole idea behind Capitals/Mothership was EXACTLY to circumvent having to drop a station every time you want to move to another system and start mining it, and/or to allow a nomadic lifestyle for factions that wish so, including player pirates that constantly have to be on the move to avoid being hunted down.

The purpose of a MOTHERSHIP is to allow for nomadic lifestyle. The reason I changed Capitals so much, it was because the Capitals were pretty much Motherships, except they weren't homebased.

The fact you have a moving base is OP enough, no need to buff its weaponry too.

That's why the moving base cannot have mega-guns. :p

On such a large vessel, you need to manage and divert power to various systems to operate them, and that can - and should - lead to non-critical systems being shut down depending on the situation. While moving/in combat, the factory and the shipyard are the non-critical systems that shut down to power the thrusters, FTL and weaponry. While anchored, the power from the thrusters, guns and jump drive could go to the factory and/or shipyard, and for example, give the Capital's shield extra damage reduction, much like the Ion effect, to compensate for being a sitting duck. Mind you, turrets would still be operational in both cases. Such huge vessels are better off having most of their firepower in turrets anyway, as anything but a station will be just impossible to turn onto and get a good shot at.

The problem, is that this still reinforces the idea of one base living. While the power may not be able keep all of those systems online at once, it still allows ALL of the systems to be on one ship, again, allowing a way for large factions to circumvent the empire system.

Stronger thrusters are unneeded. As a Capital will only use those to position itself within a sector and move larger distances using a jump drive, and spend most of its time anchored somewhere, I don't see why its sublight drives should be so significant.

They aren't needed, they're just an extra thing you can choose to invest in to improve your Capitals acceleration.

You seem to still think that Capitals, like Motherships, are meant for Nomadic lifestyle. They aren't. A Mothership allows up to 3 players to live a Nomadic Lifestyle aboard their Mothership. But Capitals, since they're now meant to be constructed/used by large end-game factions, are not. They are not mobile bases, as large factions are meant to have many stations in order to keep their empire from falling apart, Capitals are just a mega-ship to add to their fleet.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

You seem to still think that Capitals, like Motherships, are meant for Nomadic lifestyle. They aren't. A Mothership allows up to 3 players to live a Nomadic Lifestyle aboard their Mothership. But Capitals, since they're now meant to be constructed/used by large end-game factions, are not. They are not mobile bases, as large factions are meant to have many stations in order to keep their empire from falling apart, Capitals are just a mega-ship to add to their fleet.

In that case, there is no need to add any station-like systems to Capitals, only Motherships. If it's not a mobile base, just another mega-warship, that would not serve any purpose, as people in empire-like factions with multiple stations would still hop back to the nearest base where they can refine and manufacture stuff without any power, time and efficiency penalties, and if it's a warship, no one would waste precious mass and power on factory enhancers, or a shipyard. It's just a big-ass ship. We already have those.

Mobile base does not equal warship. Just like a present-day Supercarrier by itself has close to no combat potential and its onboard weapons only serve as point defense. Its power is in the planes it carries. Just like a Capital's power should lie in the utility it brings as a mobile base, being able to repair and produce ships in enemy territory or near it (until discovered)

And realistically speaking, as a survival and PvP player, I say NO ONE would EVER leave the core of a moving ship, especially not in a potentially hostile territory, or under the threat of an enemy raid, to start resource refining on the move, and risk flying blind into an ambush. The moment they finish mining or whatever business they had at that location, they'd do nothing other than flying and charging jump drives until they are at the safety of their homebase. And if you have to be stationary to start processing anyway, then what wrong would come from HAVING TO stop in order to start processing?