Why exactly is power broken?

[Az14el]

Dock a scanner *shrugs*
Somewhere near your main core optimally

 

[Deserea]

Dock a scanner *shrugs*

Its really just that simple? how does that affect anything at all.

 

[kulbolen]

aside from getting an extra scanner shot at a highly reduced cooldown? not much, but i imagine that speaks for itself

 

[Az14el]

Its really just that simple? how does that affect anything at all.

Because the main ship will need a much larger block count to speed up the recharge time of your scanner, and can't have multiple scanning computers directly placed onto it, whereas docking another gets you a second, third, etc scan in a row, all you need to do is swap to it. Usually too risky in combat though (unless you're a scary person who just doesn't give a crap about the odd accident).

Generally though if your onboard scanner isn't enough to drop an in range jam, a docked one wont help

 

[Deserea]

Because the main ship will need a much larger block count to speed up the recharge time of your scanner, and can't have multiple scanning computers directly placed onto it, whereas docking another gets you a second, third, etc scan in a row, all you need to do is swap to it. Usually too risky in combat though (unless you're a scary person who just doesn't give a crap).

Sounds like something my exploration frigate would benefit from though. Might have to dock a few inside and see how well it works.

 

[Az14el]

Sounds like something my exploration frigate would benefit from though. Might have to dock a few inside and see how well it works.

If you use a very fast jumper they're super useful for scanning systems quickly without having to wait for the recharge timer.

 

[Deserea]

If you use a very fast jumper they're super useful for scanning systems quickly without having to wait for the recharge timer.

not to bad, i still dont* see how thats considered an exploit....but whatever, thanks for the ideas on improving my ship though!

 

[Gasboy]

what do i have to gain by manipulating you? the chance to rebuild all my ships? think.

He appears to believe that the heat mechanic and power revamp will be word for word what Schema wrote in the announcement post. He can't see past that to the point where the heat mechanic can actually be implemented well enough to be useful and improve the game.

 

[kulbolen]

oh i thought we were just playing around arguing over the dumb semantics in these posts.

also des, docked scanners arent inherently exploitative... and never seen anyone banned from any server ever for it. just because something may be an (obvious) oversight doesnt mean it isnt covered under the umbrella of creative use of in gamemechanics. its really up to individual opinion of people responsible for your server whether somethings an exploit and what to do about it if it is. some guy on a forum who has no bearing on you probably isnt a good guide to go by eyyyyyy

 

[Az14el]

not to bad, i still dont* see how thats considered an exploit....but whatever, thanks for the ideas on improving my ship though!

I don't find it very useful for advantage against other players, though mostly because I'm not confident I'll end up in the right place when i jump out of my core at 200m/s. But it's definitely a symptom of an unhealthy system when you consider the games file structure with entities & bounding box issues, for instance effects ratios are dependant on the entity their actually on as far as block cost goes, allowing & empowering docked hulls with cheap but full power effects systems. Another one and the real kicker is that reactors up to the 2m e/s mark are more efficient than aux reactors, also dependant on the e/s of the actual entity they're placed on, not the ship they're docked to, allowing more block efficient energy generation for weapons/effects on a docked entity than on the main ship.

 

[Deserea]

I don't find it very useful for advantage against other players, though mostly because I'm not confident I'll end up in the right place when i jump out of my core at 200m/s. But it's definitely a symptom of an unhealthy system when you consider the games file structure with entities & bounding box issues, for instance effects ratios are dependant on the entity their actually on as far as block cost goes, allowing & empowering docked hulls with cheap but full power effects systems. Another one and the real kicker is that reactors up to the 2m e/s mark are more efficient than aux reactors, also dependant on the e/s of the actual entity they're placed on, not the ship they're docked to, allowing more block efficient energy generation for weapons/effects on a docked entity than on the main ship.

Oh i know the latter one fully, also i dont think id be willing to jump out of a core at all in combat, dont really trust that something wouldnt happen. The avelos uses a terrible version of it for its side shields. Things like the latter you posted i agree should be fixed, lesser things...eh not so much, especially if the really dont affect anything.

 

[Az14el]

probably said it a few times but i feel its important to make a distinction here, it's purely for performance reasons that I don't like the current power/docking interactions. Balance wise i like the design depth, there's always a more efficient fish... but unfortunately they lag more too

 

[Lecic]

If giantism [more 200k mass] gets a nice cut, the noob turrets [bad shapped turrets that makes collision stuff] get damage at collisions and be destroyed

So, the only turrets that should be allowed to exist are free floating ball turrets? All turrets that aren't that have at least some collisions with their ship. A better method of lag reduction would be to have turrets calculate their movement arcs when the player exits build mode on the turret and main ship and lock the AI from moving beyond their arcs.

 

[JinM]

Please stop this know-it-all talk, and go into the off-topic forum. This discussion went from a question for power-attitudes, into a meta-discussion, and now stopped at AI and collission detection. I really want to read some quality stuff and what you guys write is not of such, but just bloated up opinion defending.

Next time keep your opinion shorter, and maybe ask why someone thinks different and don't feel this urge to defend your own opinion. If people disagree with you (I don't mean someone special here, I mean each one of you) , you can't make them agree by unfolding thousand aspects of your solution to a problem. You can show them your solution, and maybe explain it in one or two sentences if it's hard to comprehend, and that's it. If they really would want to understand you, they would ask for further details. But if you made clear what you would preffer as solution, and the other disagrees, and you can't come to a least common denominator, then it's fine. You said what you think is right, and that doesn't need further explanation. It's clear enough after one statement what someone wants.

If I myself have a opinion, I say it once and maybe (not often) explain it in one further response, and if people still disagree with me but don't ask but just state what they think is right it's ok. That is called a different opinion and each of you have to stop pissing each other off just because of thinking different. Maybe ask. But let a man have his own thoughts pls.

All what you guys discussed, could also have been discussed in like 2 responses. 3 pages are just too much. I mean you did the same thing in another topic. It's just too much.

 

[Gasboy]

Please stop this know-it-all talk, and go into the off-topic forum.

I understand your frustration. However, as people are free to type what they want (within the rules anyways), you are also free to not read it.

And I agree, we're now all just talking past each other.

 

[JinM]

I understand your frustration. However, as people are free to type what they want (within the rules anyways), you are also free to not read it.

And I agree, we're now all just talking past each other.

Maybe I am just too used to the high standard we had in an old tech forum I frequented. There moderators sometimes deleted whole conversation parts of a topic when they were not improving the information, and pointed out, that they take this way to maintain the quality of information that board was about. It was all about providing information. On Starmadedock its sometimes all about providing discussion.

Btw. free speech: I am free to dress up as a pink horse and go on streets too. I don't do it, because I am a little bit concernded about the sanity of the people around me. And so I am also thinking, that people here on the board are also concerned about the texts they write and if they are enjoyable or the opposite.

 

[Gasboy]

Btw. free speech: I am free to dress up as a pink horse and go on streets too. I don't do it, because I am a little bit concernded about the sanity of the people around me. And so I am also thinking, that people here on the board are also concerned about the texts they write and if they are enjoyable or the opposite.

I did not mean free speech when I said people were free to write what they want.

Simply pointing out that if the mods thought this conversation was so far off the mark, they'd have done as you said happened in the old tech forums, removed irrelevant parts of the conversation.

As for whether this is off-topic or not, I think it's still within the constrains of the question, "Why exactly is power broken?"

 

[JinM]

Simply pointing out that if the mods thought this conversation was so far off the mark, they'd have done as you said happened in the old tech forums, removed irrelevant parts of the conversation.

Nope, not from what I experienced when I asked a mod about the netiquette. They have a "give them a free hand and let it regulate itself, intervene only if really neccessary" mentality, and that is ok for me. And please don't justify what happens anywhere with "the authority didn't intervene so it must be right".

And you didn't got me. Its my opinion. Not the objective truth or the rules here. These guys can think for themself if what they wrote was so amazingly informative in this and the other thread. I just tipped their shoulder and tried to make them think. Because I want to read some quality stuff, and in no case I want to read discussions that get personal just because people are not able to talk to each other in a propper way.

Also, saying that something is within the rules of the forum or not actually is sub-moderating and forbidden in some forums. But I did not write about the rules. I just wrote about how to talk and tried to remind about efficiency.

 

[Edymnion]

Throwing in my 2 cents (without reading all 4 pages, I know, I'm horrible):

Is power "broken"? No, it functions.

The problem is, it isn't fun, it isn't intuitive, and it doesn't do anything when it comes to ship design. It doesn't really even make sense in a logical fashion. I mean, you have big long lines of reactors running all through the ship? That gain in power when put into arbitrary abstract shapes?

At the best, you have a few lines running around your ship and thats that, power is handled. There's nothing fun or creative about it, you just have some lines. At worst, you're tying gordian knots of power trying to squeeze it all into your hull. At no point does it ever look like an actual reactor or anything really, its just a mess of random lines that look more like the cables to transmit your power than they do the ability to generate said power.

They function, but they don't really add anything to the game. Its just some hard to wrap your head around concept (sure, its easy to us now, but I've spent countless hours teaching it to newbies in game, its hard for new people to get at first) that once you figure out the basics of you really never care about it again.

It functions, but it isn't fun, it isn't creative, and it actively encourages the same boxy ship shapes because long and narrow is ideal for power generation. It needs overhauling, IMO, simply because the current system is so luke warm blah that it frankly might as well not even be there.

I mean, really. When was the last time you sat down and thought "Hmmm... now how am I going to fit power into this?" When was the last time you had to make a design choice when it came to power?

 

[Az14el]

Nope, not from what I experienced when I asked a mod about the netiquette. They have a "give them a free hand and let it regulate itself, intervene only if really neccessary" mentality, and that is ok for me. And please don't justify what happens anywhere with "the authority didn't intervene so it must be right".

And you didn't got me. Its my opinion. Not the objective truth or the rules here. These guys can think for themself if what they wrote was so amazingly informative in this and the other thread. I just tipped their shoulder and tried to make them think. Because I want to read some quality stuff, and in no case I want to read discussions that get personal just because people are not able to talk to each other in a propper way.

Also, saying that something is within the rules of the forum or not actually is sub-moderating and forbidden in some forums. But I did not write about the rules. I just wrote about how to talk and tried to remind about efficiency.

It's a roughly on-topic internet argument so that sounds about right of them, i gave some answers reflecting my opinion on "why exactly is power broken" in my initial post and then made arguments in their favor, you have nothing to be offended about. Personally I don't really care about the random accusations made against me on the forums, i have no more reason to respect the source so its fine.