Who's Bright Idea was this?!

    Criss

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    Just because you consider it an exploit doesn't mean it is
    It's not a matter of opinion. It was never even a finished feature. Faction points were meant to be spent on respawning asteroids. This way claimed territory would be the only place you could get continuous resources. That was the intended solution. Whether that will be the solution I cannot say, as development has introduced more options for us.

    We get that you do not like the change. This is all unfortunately part of the development process. Not all the pieces are here yet and things break. But please understand that having an infinite asteroid field around your homebase sector that respawns every 5 minutes is 100% an exploit. That is not the game we are trying to make.
     
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    Ithirahad

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    I don't think that the game in its current state (With non-renewable asteroids and all planets getting ripped to pieces) is the game you're trying to make either, judging from most of the plans I've heard of. Not a very good argument.
     

    Groovrider

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    Oh well. While I would like respawning asteroids...Alpha. Nuff said.
     

    Criss

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    I don't think that the game in its current state (With non-renewable asteroids and all planets getting ripped to pieces) is the game you're trying to make either, judging from most of the plans I've heard of. Not a very good argument.
    Well I wouldn't expect the game to be made overnight. Progress is progress. Removing an unintended feature is a step towards a complete game.
     
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    Well I wouldn't expect the game to be made overnight. Progress is progress. Removing an unintended feature is a step towards a complete game.
    Agreed. I would like to chime in, however, and say that the proposed solution to the resource deficit (spending FP for respawns) is very unsatisfying.

    First off, this is a very flat, very unsatisfying, "gamey" solution to the problem. Some questions that I think illustrate the issue:
    • How does mechanic this fit in descriptively with the setting and/or lore of the game? ("Why" does spending FP respawn asteroids?)
    • Why is resource acquisition simply represented by an abstract number mechanic? Presumably this is an important part of a survival game.
    • How does this game mechanic not promote player or inter-faction interaction or conflict? Social relations (good or bad) are often driven by resource acquisition, but this mechanic seems to spawn very little cooperation or competition over resources.
    • How does this mechanic provide a way for new factions to be competitive with older ones? New factions don't have much FP, but need a lot of resources, presumably more than than their starter system's asteroids would provide . Established factions could easily respawn asteroids then immediately mine them all, denying new factions any opportunity to poach them. How does a young faction get their piece of the pie?
    There are some better options out there, I think. I've seen some very interesting approaches in the various asteroid regeneration threads, and proposed some ideas about contested resource acquisition myself in my Contested Faction Area Control suggestion thread.

    In the short term, though, it does seem like a bad idea to make a resource gap and not fill it with something in the short term, even if that was just respawning brand new generated-from-scratch asteroids, or not saving asteroid states in server saves and always reverting them back to their original states. The resource gap seems like it slows down the rate of creation and advancement on multiplayer servers, which limits the volume of free user testing you get from the alpha. Worse case, it slows the game down enough that players actively take a break from the game, shrinking your test player base.

    Just my 2 cents, hopefully it was useful.
     
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    I play only SP so far and haven't had this issue as I primarily just build things to upload. However, it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal to implement some sort of asteroid respawning. Make it so they spawn in their default configuration once or twice a day, perhaps even lock that part of the config for servers so it can't be messed with. Only allow so many asteroids to spawn, and spawn different types each time. Any asteroids that are built onto could get a custom entity flag that keeps them from being saved so they don't respawn in that configuration. Problem solved until the finished mechanic goes into the game. Mantle extractors would be cool too.
     
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    Ithirahad

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    Well I wouldn't expect the game to be made overnight. Progress is progress. Removing an unintended feature is a step towards a complete game.
    Right, and when a working feature is implemented to replace this unintended (but useful) one, the unintended feature should be removed to get rid of the potential exploits* involving it, or in the meantime just *fix* the issue by disabling respawning when an asteroid has blocks placed on it or is moved out of its asteroid sector.

    *Of course, this doesn't apply when an exploit allows for things like instantaneously killing/crashing servers, disabling enemy homebase protection, oneshotting ships, bypassing faction protections, or building ships that are somehow more powerful than their block content. But this isn't really one of those.
     
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    It's going to be fixed. The devs have stated this repeatedly.

    Exactly what more do you want?


    (cuz frankly, my time machine is broken, no changing the past, sorry)
     

    Ithirahad

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    At this point, nothing more; the team is going forward and there's no reasonably changing that; I won't be so irrational and selfish(?) as to try. But I'd be sad to see something like this come up again.
     
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    I'd really like to know what servers are having this issue? PM me what server's are having this problem so that i may examine for myself how bad it is. Thank you.
     
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    Here are a couple of thoughts that might help curb resource depletion while still encouraging multiple sector claims:

    1) Comets and Meteors
    I don't think it would take up too much of a server's resources to spawn an asteroid 'ship' that flies through a sector. Like pirates, this only needs to happen around where players are currently playing - not be a persistent entity. They spawn, fly a path through a sector, then despawn if they are far enough away from players. Players can mine them as they fly, or use kenetic weapons to catch them. They have a spiral path towards a star or worm hole (where they despawn outside player's vision).

    The more players logged on then the more sectors that the server must keep loaded. The more sectors currently loaded, the higher the likelihood of a comet/meteor event. The more space a faction owns, the more likely they are to have a member find a comet/meteor.

    2) Gravity Well Events
    This is more fiction than science, but it will work for a game. In the real universe stars explode and reform - space is a vacuum, but it still has dust in it that (over time) condenses into a new stellar formation. So rather than asteroids just 'respawning,' they are being formed naturally by gravity. In essence, they grow over time (just like reality, but over the course of hours/days rather than millennia).

    A sector of space has a chance of spawning a 'gravity well' which shows up on scanners and plays havoc with thrusters (like a weak black hole that kills instead of teleporting). This area grows hazy/foggy as it collects space dust. Eventually the dust settles and an asteroid (or cluster) is there. The event becomes something to fight over/defend since it takes a long time to 'finish'. It is rare that it starts, and takes a long time to finish.

    The more sectors a faction owns, the more likely they are to have an event naturally occur in their area or near their scanners.

    3) Gravity Well Modules
    If #2 seems incredulous, then perhaps we could instead say that the event is man made. We have a Gravity Well Module, which is shot into space like a decentigrator. When it is detonated (by laser or missile) it makes a couple of checks:
    A) Only one gravity well active per sector
    B) No entities within X-meters
    C) The sector is owned by the correct faction (determined by faction module attached to gravity well module)
    If everything works out, it creates the hazy/foggy space-dust collecting event I described above. To prevent it from being abused the gravity it uses to collect dust shouldn't affect other entities. Over the next few hours (or whatever time is appropriate) it collects space dust and turns into an asteroid. I see this as a faction moves to an area, launches the well and activates it, then leaves and comes back the next day to see what formed.

    The price of the module used to do this is the control over how often it will be used. It is faster than flying 40k km, but also much more expensive. If we limit them to one active per sector, then a faction can have more asteroid 'farms' if it owns more territory. We could also say that the color of the nearest star determines the probability of certain ores developing - if you want a particular ore you should find a particular colored star.

    EDIT:
    4) Order an asteroid from an NPC. You always pay a set price, but you never know what you will get. Sometimes it's huge and ore-stocked, other times it's small and basically useless. It's a gamble, but it is always interesting to watch the Trade Guild use their push beams to fly an asteroid towards a store. You also have to be careful, because the Trade Guild just does delivery. If someone else ambushes them, or starts mining the asteroid with you, well that's not their problem.

    You also have to wait for the ships to arrive. It might not be instantaneous.
     
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    Respawning asteroids will not necessarily crashing the economy of Starmade. There is many ways to prevent it. In my opinion, I would like to have respawning asteroids. This will give a reason to set op a station in a certain area of the universe. Also if (I hope there will, and have seen many other people suggesting it) there will be gas giants, this will give another reason to set op a station in a certain area. Asteroid fields and gas giants will be like a place you come for harvesting. Depending on how common or rare these are, these places vil have a high value. So if these places are rare in the universe, many people will try to get these places, and that can result in war, negotiations, alliances and probably more. Also these places could at the same time be very dangerous, because these areas could attracting pirates, and other lifeforms, and maybe allready controlled by these. Also it could be dangerous because of the environment. So if people want to have these places with "infinite" amount of resources, than they are gonna prepare for it, and fight for it. Also to control the economy, there can of course be adjusted to the respawning time for the asteroids.
    I know the developers of Starmade want to see people fly around and exploring, to bring life to the universe. This can be achieved by how rare these places are. also there are many other ways to make people fly around. If the universe have different places for certsain resouces, there will be a need for flying to a certain place to find that specific resource. The aspect of exploring will also be there, because of quests, wars, alliances, and much more. There just need to be balance between everything.

    No matter what the choise will be, it have to make the Starmade universe more fun, than it allready is, more challenging and bring life.
     
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    Maybe add black hole that randomly spawn and teleport to another (but always the same) black hole when entered ?
    Black hole would last for a random but showed time.