Turrets enhanced and weapons extended

[NorseEngineer]

now, I have two ideas: Compact turrets, Advanced weapons.

Compact turrets:
Thoughts: a problem with turrets, especially after the new docks, is that they have a minimum size before they can function properly, they need: core, docker, AI and at least 1 weapon computer, so to have a nice looking turret that also counts for combat, it needs quite some size, when compared to how well the game works for lag etc. for example I have many times wanted some small cannons, to just deliver a continuous fire at nearby hostile fighters etc. and with the addition of the torch you would also need increased security inside ships and non-homebase stations, but you don't want them taking up a lot of space.
Idea: a new block, for turret docking, "compact turret axis rail" make it more expensive, perhaps using an existing turret dock, and add nocx or something, then it would work like the little blocks mod for minecraft, where it divides the usual block into smaller ones, I was think about this for some time, and ended at thinking 3 or 5 on each axis, so it would consist of 27 or 125 blocks, I'll use 3/27 for the rest.
this would allow for much more customization of weapons, and how many there could be, and still leave room for decoration or armor.
Balance: the balance would lie mainly in 2 parts, 1st reduce the effects and values of the blocks placed(weapon damage/cost/range) by a value approx. 27, which would mean you can't build massive weapons in a small space, and these turrets would still be limited to close-up fights, 2nd you would use 27 cannon barrel blocks to make a weapon with 1, so they will be more expensive, which is also the reasoning behind the approc. 27 less value, it should probably be less, so the value is higher, due to the price.

station use: this could be used for a small turret can could be place similar to a security camera, or as turrets coming up from the floor, when there are ppl present, using logic and rails.

Advanced turrets:
Thoughts: weapon systems are currently simple and basic, easy to set up and configure, but hard to customize and decorate, and some very popular weapons cannot be made with this
Idea: add a few extra blocks, used to customize weapons and make them more advanced, these would be connected to the weapons pc, like normal modules, but also to each other. instead of having number of groups decide how many outputs there are, it could be by having an output block, which could also be placed in a group to create bigger projectiles, example have an output for a cannon that is a circle r=4 shoot a projectile that is r=4. and another block would be a focus lens, which would make the outputs it's connected to, shoot to it, and it would then redirect it, allowing the contruction of a proper deathstar, using a beam with 3 outputs and 1 focus lens. Now this system would allow for advanced weapons, and would be an addition, not a replacement.

Another ship remote, not an inner ship remote, but one to control specific turrets, so that you could build some nice turrets, with movement, which could be controlled by the captain from the bridge, these would then turn to face where the cursor/cross-hair is so that you would be able to aim manually, and also lock-on with missiles.

ideas for more advanced weapon blocks are welcome XD it's a bit bare.

 

[srs008]

actually, i like the thinking, with this method, we could just block normal turrets inside a ship entirely, then we can use these SPECIFICALLY for astronauts or small vehicles, solving the astronaut vs turret boarding issue, namely that any turret will EAT a CREW of astronauts.
this way, we can scale them down, and then the astronauts could be equipped with small shields, or cloaker/s jammers of limited duration... a "riot shield" directional shield...
you get the idea.

 

[Nickizzy]

Wouldn't microblocks mess with programming? If I remember correctly star made relies on voxel programming, or each block is positioned by it's nearby blocks. Would microblocks need each block to take 27x the programming power? Great idea, great solution, but how would you code it?

 

[jayman38]

I would recommend three block changes:
1. Rail dockers, ship cores, and faction blocks all are merged into a single block.
2. Maybe a new weapon system, semi-rapid fire (5 shots per second, maybe?), high power usage. Effectively a single-block replacement for the cannon/cannon PD combo at half the fire rate.
3. The weapon computer is also a weapon module, so every weapon system has 1 starting module, starting with the computer. At least then, it might explain the full-block bulk of the computer. (Cannon/cannon full rate autofire would only need two blocks - two cannon computers.)

These changes would allow 4-block turrets at the smallest.

 

[NorseEngineer]

Wouldn't microblocks mess with programming? If I remember correctly star made relies on voxel programming, or each block is positioned by it's nearby blocks. Would microblocks need each block to take 27x the programming power? Great idea, great solution, but how would you code it?

Each blocks position is remembered in relation to the core, which is why I think it would be an entire entity that would have a reduced size. No, they would not need to take that much more calculating, though they would probably require some changes, especially in relation to collision boxes, as they could be 3+7/27 m wide. As for the coding, I'll leave that to the programmers, I know similar have been done in Minecraft, and Starmade relies on similar code, and uses the same language, Java.

I would recommend three block changes:
1. Rail dockers, ship cores, and faction blocks all are merged into a single block.
2. Maybe a new weapon system, semi-rapid fire (5 shots per second, maybe?), high power usage. Effectively a single-block replacement for the cannon/cannon PD combo at half the fire rate.
3. The weapon computer is also a weapon module, so every weapon system has 1 starting module, starting with the computer. At least then, it might explain the full-block bulk of the computer. (Cannon/cannon full rate autofire would only need two blocks - two cannon computers.)

These changes would allow 4-block turrets at the smallest.

there is a reason the rail dockers and ship cores are seperate, people, in general, prefer it like that, I'd also rather be free to place my core wherever I want, without having to dock from the spot also. You can already adjust the reload time, by balancing the slaves, for a reload time of 0,2 sec you want a 80% cannon-slave. A computer is a lot more complex than a cannon barrel, that would explain the full-block bulk of it, and it needs air/space between parts.

 

[kookster]

[Edited]

Have a weapon system on the main ship, then a same type of weapon system on a turret. Link them in the same manner you would with a wireless logic module. So now you have a very compact turret that is really powerful. With this setup you would only need 1 computer and its module, bobby ai, core, rail docker.

 

[Nickizzy]

That could result in people making micro turrets imposible to hit but dealing tons of damage. Also,(I think this would be really cool, but anyway) you could make power cells and shield cells using power and shield supply beams on micro builds. You still would need the space to make the cap blocks. Maybe you could only control miniships through remote control? A remote controler and antena like in space engineers would be really cool, give it a drone or sceurity camera sort of feel. Otherwise people would only build miniships to fit in hangars, we need to talk about microdrone bays, maybe nerf undocked weapon damage for miniships. (It would still be cool to have a ship fly out and open a tiny door, and a bunch of little insect things flying out and expolring the sector)

 

[kookster]

You would be able to hit it just as well as any other weapon on a ship.

 

[Nickizzy]

But cannons and beams(the two main weapons besides missles, and the only dps weapons, in starmade currently) would be imposible to aim at. They could hit your comparitively large ship with weapons 27 times better, and would be so much smaller. The only way to deal with them would be to have swarm missles(which cannot be used if you have any drones or allies) or lock-ons, which have huge reload times. I think an overall nerf of all miniship damage would help, it would make them still good at drones, scouts, and anti-astronaut(security camera/miniturret) roles.


[edit]
They could still be used for combat, just focused a lot more on fighters and weak targets than anything with much shields.

 

[kiraen]

Thanks for your suggestion, unfortunately it's one that's been rejected before so sorry to be the bearer of bad news. You can check it out here on our Public Roadmap.

 

[kookster]

But cannons and beams(the two main weapons besides missles, and the only dps weapons, in starmade currently) would be imposible to aim at. They could hit your comparitively large ship with weapons 27 times better, and would be so much smaller. The only way to deal with them would be to have swarm missles(which cannot be used if you have any drones or allies) or lock-ons, which have huge reload times. I think an overall nerf of all miniship damage would help, it would make them still good at drones, scouts, and anti-astronaut(security camera/miniturret) roles.


[edit]
They could still be used for combat, just focused a lot more on fighters and weak targets than anything with much shields.

Use lock ons, target the turret, bam the whole weapon is now out. This way actually makes it much easier to take out weapons since its a turret. Otherwise you would have to take out the computer itself, which most place in the middle of the ship.

 

[Nickizzy]

But imagine a titain covered with turrets 3by3, but each turret can do the same as a 100by100 shield buster cannon can, and there are hundreds of them. Try lock-oning that! The turrets would just be too compact to be regulated. I would like having astrotech and supply beams stay unnerfed, but everything else would just be to compact- Your security camera has a rapid cannon that can kill an astronaut in 3 seconds.

 

[NorseEngineer]

try reading the first post again, particular the part about balance, a compact turret, filling 1 block(27 compacts), would only do as much damage as 1 block, so the turrets etc. wouldn't be more powerful no, they would be more expensive, but also have a lot more features.
If you made a weapon of 27 modules on a compact turret it would deal the same damage as a normal turret of 1 weapon module. The compact turrets would not be an OP weapon, but an expensive way to make more advanced turrets, that would also fit onto smaller ships.
and their range should also be lessened, as they are compact.
If damage and range was reduced to 1/3 and power increased by x2 that could possibly be a good balance. Could also be damage to 1/3 range to 1/9 that'll also add up to the 27 factor.
As for further discussion I do believe the informative post by kiraen puts it nicely to an end, although I do not agree with that decision from Scheme, but it's their game.