Trivial but effective boosts to station survivability

[Batavium]

Is it possible to create new block with new recipe? Cause some players will salvage planets with rock. Cargo full of edited rocks will add a lot mass. That's why I am asking about creating of new blocks.

There is a special directory where you can make new blocks. ...StarMade/customBlockConfig/ A very limited HowTo and a Template file are in there.

Also look into ...StarMade/custumBlockBehaviorConfig/

But I think that it should be implemented by game developers. Addition of just 1 new blocks isn't hard. Also would be great to add heavy shield blocks for station too.

I agree. The Station section in the Shops does not sell a very large variation of blocks. Adding a few more defensive blocks here would help. Having them in this section also sets them apart from the other hull and assorted blocks. So it is immediately clear what the use of this block is to new players.

I like your tests of the different armor settings. And would like to point out that there are quite a few blocks in the game that are not in a default server config but that do exist in the game.

Things like the DeathStar Station Block... Basicly a kind of super hull.

Here are the stats for the DeathStar.

Spoiler: Unused DeathStar in the BlockConfig.xml

<DeathStar>
<Block icon="156" name="Death Star Core" textureId="336, 336, 336, 336, 336, 336" type="DEATHSTAR_CORE_ID">
<Consistence/>
<CubatomConsistence/>
<Price>100</Price>
<Description>This was an old version of stations, it is currently not in use... How did you get this anyways?? "That's no moon"</Description>
<BlockResourceType>2</BlockResourceType>
<ProducedInFactory>0</ProducedInFactory>
<BasicResourceFactory>0</BasicResourceFactory>
<FactoryBakeTime>5.0</FactoryBakeTime>
<Animated>false</Animated>
<Armour>30.0</Armour>
<ArmorHPContribution>250</ArmorHPContribution>
<StructureHPContribution>250</StructureHPContribution>
<Transparency>false</Transparency>
<InShop>false</InShop>
<Orientation>false</Orientation>
<Slab>0</Slab>
<Enterable>false</Enterable>
<Mass>0.5</Mass>
<Volume>0.5</Volume>
<Hitpoints>255</Hitpoints>
<Placable>false</Placable>
<InRecipe>false</InRecipe>
<CanActivate>false</CanActivate>
<IndividualSides>1</IndividualSides>
<SideTexturesPointToOrientation>false</SideTexturesPointToOrientation>
<HasActivationTexture>false</HasActivationTexture>
<MainCombinationController>false</MainCombinationController>
<SupportCombinationController>false</SupportCombinationController>
<EffectCombinationController>false</EffectCombinationController>
<Physical>true</Physical>
<BlockStyle>0</BlockStyle>
<LightSource>false</LightSource>
<Door>false</Door>
<Deprecated>true</Deprecated>
<CubatomCompound>
<Cubatom>
<mass>light</mass>
<spinning>anti_spin</spinning>
<thermal>solid</thermal>
<conductivity>draining</conductivity>
</Cubatom>
<Cubatom>
<mass>medium</mass>
<spinning>base_spin</spinning>
<thermal>gas</thermal>
<conductivity>insulator</conductivity>
</Cubatom>
</CubatomCompound>
<ResourceInjection>0</ResourceInjection>
<ExplosionAbsorbtion>0.0</ExplosionAbsorbtion>
<LightSourceColor>1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0</LightSourceColor>
<SlabReference>0</SlabReference>
<OnlyDrawnInBuildMode>false</OnlyDrawnInBuildMode>
<LodShapeFromFar>0</LodShapeFromFar>
<LowHpSetting>false</LowHpSetting>
</Block>
</DeathStar>

The highlighted green settings are the important ones. This is probably the most maxed out block possible that exists. Though you can up the armour even more we clearly need to brake that sealing. As the game currently has max settings and they are not high enough. Devs please take notice.

Some servers used this. 1st Gen Light vs Dark had it among others.

Schemadyne is another super hull currently unused. Clearly showing that Schema toyed with the concept in the past.

 

[jijiji]

There is a special directory where you can make new blocks. ...StarMade/customBlockConfig/ A very limited HowTo and a Template file are in there.

Also look into ...StarMade/custumBlockBehaviorConfig/

Creating of armor blocks is easy, but I can't find any way to create shield blocks.

Now I found custom block behavior config. I will try to create something better. Looks like we can increase AHP absorbtion.
[doublepost=1483546788,1483544818][/doublepost]As I see shields are hardcoded. So it's possible only using coding. I am not sure that server admins will make new shields...

Also armor absorbtion level can't be changed for specific block as I know.

All we can really do now is adding new heavy armor block with recipe. 99.9% resist is good, but anti-armor effects will break block fast. (you can test 119% or 124%)

So I see only one solution: promotion of this suggestion. Because of max hp is 255, we need increased AHP absorbtion level for heavy armor block.

Tell me if I am wrong.
[doublepost=1483550045][/doublepost]

For "special" Shields, you need to crack open the blockBehaviorConfig.xml

I can't comprehend most of it. (I don't do well with poorly explained formulae), but most of the first section deals with shields.

EDIT: among other things you can do with it, (with ease) is set up a basic regen value for shipcores.
Or futz with how long shields wait before re-generating.

Do you can to create new shield block? I just can't find any way. Because block behavior is affecting all shield blocks.

 

[Batavium]

Tell me if I am wrong.

Your not wrong.

Do you can to create new shield block? I just can't find any way. Because block behavior is affecting all shield blocks.

If we can not make a new shield block. Then maybe we can make another block that uses the existing stats of shield. I am trying to figure out how the game knows what is what a cross the various config files.

BlockConfig.xml gives a Type ID in text setting to each block. So for Shield Capacitor this is

<Block icon="23" name="Shield Capacitor" textureId="256, 256, 256, 256, 256, 256" type="SHIELD_ID">

Then in BlockTypes.properties the SHIELD_ID gets a number 3 so SHIELD_ID=3

But then i am lost on how this relates to blockBehaviorConfig.xml

It seems as you say that all values are block specific and you can not copy and paste the properties of one block to another.

 

[jijiji]

If we can not make a new shield block. Then maybe we can make another block that uses the existing stats of shield. I am trying to figure out how the game knows what is what a cross the various config files.

BlockConfig.xml gives a Type ID in text setting to each block. So for Shield Capacitor this is

<Block icon="23" name="Shield Capacitor" textureId="256, 256, 256, 256, 256, 256" type="SHIELD_ID">

Then in BlockTypes.properties the SHIELD_ID gets a number 3 so SHIELD_ID=3

But then i am lost on how this relates to blockBehaviorConfig.xml

It seems as you say that all values are block specific and you can not copy and paste the properties of one block to another.

Yeah!

You can't create new block with existing id. It will cause error.

Let's ask developers about it may be?

 

[Batavium]

Let's ask developers about it may be?

I think the forum is read by the various devs on a regular basis. So i am sure they know what is going on. And they do not necessarily have to agree or even think it has any importance.

The main thing is we can only alter existing properties of blocks. And some of these properties have a maximum setting. That would be the first thing to be solved as that is possibly the easiest.

The other one is that we would like a way to stick the properties of blocks to other blocks. And this one is much harder as Schema seems to have made them from scratch for every new block that came into the game. There is no extra general properties file that lets you assign them to blocks. This is a very code heavy way. Because now every time someone asks for a new block. Rather then maybe add a new property to a properties file to enable some new behavior. The whole block has to be coded from scratch. It is understandable though because who knew so many years ago that we would end up with so many different blocks.

 

[jijiji]

I think the forum is read by the various devs on a regular basis. So i am sure they know what is going on. And they do not necessarily have to agree or even think it has any importance.

The main thing is we can only alter existing properties of blocks. And some of these properties have a maximum setting. That would be the first thing to be solved as that is possibly the easiest.

The other one is that we would like a way to stick the properties of blocks to other blocks. And this one is much harder as Schema seems to have made them from scratch for every new block that came into the game. There is no extra general properties file that lets you assign them to blocks. This is a very code heavy way. Because now every time someone asks for a new block. Rather then maybe add a new property to a properties file to enable some new behavior. The whole block has to be coded from scratch. It is understandable though because who knew so many years ago that we would end up with so many different blocks.

Addition of advanced configuration will consume more load. Increasing of max block hp too.

Only devs can do real change for the game. I would suggest to change for stations next things:

1. Increase AHP damage absorption level or create new block with more hp and mass.
   
2. Increase shield capacity at least 5x times.
3. Increase shield regen at least 2x times.
4. Increase power softcap at least 10x times (most important). Or disable it for stations.

The thing is that stations can't move and should have some advantage to be useful. Stations should be at least 5x times more effective than ships with the same cost. Players should use huge fleets to kill one station. Only big factions should have possibility to destroy stations. That's my mind.

 

[Jojomo]

1. Increase AHP damage absorption level ...<snip>
   
2. Increase shield capacity at least 5x times.
3. Increase shield regen at least 2x times.

I sincerely hope no dev considers these as a good idea. Magically coding different behaviour for the same blocks on different entity types is *horribly* immersion breaking.

We already see minor examples of this with undeathinators, factories etc not being allowed to be placed on ships. This is necessary for gameplay reasons, and I'm not complaining about it, but think about it from the point of view of a character inside the game - it's ridiculous and nonsensical.

4. Increase power softcap at least 10x times (most important). Or disable it for stations.

As above.

If you don't want to use aux power or multiple reactor entities on your station, you can just keep using reactor blocks above the softcap, as weight doesn't matter on a station.
Want 50 million e/s? Just slap down 2 million reactor blocks.

 

[jijiji]

I sincerely hope no dev considers these as a good idea. Magically coding different behaviour for the same blocks on different entity types is *horribly* immersion breaking.

We already see minor examples of this with undeathinators, factories etc not being allowed to be placed on ships. This is necessary for gameplay reasons, and I'm not complaining about it, but think about it from the point of view of a character inside the game - it's ridiculous and nonsensical.

New heavy shield block would be great. It's like a heavy armor block, but shield. Special armor absorption level would be great for this armor as I think.

If you don't want to use aux power or multiple reactor entities on your station, you can just keep using reactor blocks above the softcap, as weight doesn't matter on a station.
Want 50 million e/s? Just slap down 2 million reactor blocks.

Yes I know, but they require space. Space should be surrounded by armor. More blocks means more armor is needed. What do you think about it?

 

[Jojomo]

New heavy shield block would be great. It's like a heavy armor block, but shield.

Sounds good to me, providing they behaved identically for both ships and stations.

Yes I know, but they require space. Space should be surrounded by armor. More blocks means more armor is needed. What do you think about it?

It might be surrounded by armour, or it might not (presumably with 50millio e/s your shields will be massive). Or it might, but not a lot.

It might fit inside existing station spaces.

2 million reactor blocks can be enclosed by about 94k blocks - a small percentage relatively speaking.

It won't likely affect your maximum dimensions, as presumably you have a 2 million e/s reactor already.

Weight of armour won't hurt stations either.

If expense is the issue (resources) just use multiple reactor entities.

 

[jijiji]

Sounds good to me, providing they behaved identically for both ships and stations.



It might be surrounded by armour, or it might not (presumably with 50millio e/s your shields will be massive). Or it might, but not a lot.

It might fit inside existing station spaces.

2 million reactor blocks can be enclosed by about 750 blocks - not many at all.

Weight of armour won't hurt stations either.

If expense is the issue (resources) just use multiple reactor entities.

They are cheap. But it will cost space. So what's your plan?

 

[Jojomo]

They are cheap. But it will cost space. So what's your plan?

Space is very easy to find in starmade.....

 

[jijiji]

Space is very easy to find in starmade.....

Anyway it cost space. So what about plan?

 

[Jojomo]

Anyway it cost space. So what about plan?

Space is free, and effectively infiinte in game.

What plan are you referring to? If I want lots of power on a station I use multiple reactor entities.

If you don't want to do that you can use aux power. If you don't want to use aux power you can use large block reactors beyond softcap.

There are are already multiple options for high power stations.

 

[jijiji]

I mean this suggestion

 

[Jojomo]

I mean this suggestion

I'm sorry Jijiji, I can't give you an answer if you won't make yourself clear. I don't know what you're asking.

If you want to know about this suggestion the OP contains all there is of it.

 

[jijiji]

I mean we should make some conclusions

 

[Ithirahad]

Super dense station-only armor would be great. Would be nice if it was super cheap too, like manufactured from rock or something

I was imagining having a third product ("Litho Compound"?) craftable using a Micro Assembler, that uses all of those billions of asteroid rock capsules that we have sitting around taking up storage space. You would then be able to use a standard factory to combine the Litho Compound(?) with paint and create coloured station hull. Also, if the blocks have something like 50 mass each, I see no reason why they should be station-only... Their sheer mass would make them disadvantageous for ships.

I'd like to generally move away from hard-coded limits like "ERROR: You can't place this block on ships because screw you" in favor of balance-based soft limits on block usage, such as extreme mass.

Your not wrong.



If we can not make a new shield block. Then maybe we can make another block that uses the existing stats of shield. I am trying to figure out how the game knows what is what a cross the various config files.

BlockConfig.xml gives a Type ID in text setting to each block. So for Shield Capacitor this is

<Block icon="23" name="Shield Capacitor" textureId="256, 256, 256, 256, 256, 256" type="SHIELD_ID">

Then in BlockTypes.properties the SHIELD_ID gets a number 3 so SHIELD_ID=3

But then i am lost on how this relates to blockBehaviorConfig.xml

It seems as you say that all values are block specific and you can not copy and paste the properties of one block to another.

Blocks with special functions, like shields and power, have those functions hard-coded to their IDs. Believe me, if it was possible to make new functional blocks people would have already done it for servers.

 

[BDLS]

I'd like to generally move away from hard-coded limits like "ERROR: You can't place this block on ships because screw you" in favor of balance-based soft limits on block usage, such as extreme mass.

The one reason I'd see to make it station only instead of only high mass is because people can just make jump drive arrays and jump onto top of their target. Screw mobility when you can tank that much damage. Might be interesting though too, immobile super-tank ships.

 

[Ithirahad]

The one reason I'd see to make it station only instead of only high mass is because people can just make jump drive arrays and jump onto top of their target. Screw mobility when you can tank that much damage. Might be interesting though too, immobile super-tank ships.

It would be interesting, and I see no issue with it. Also, jump drive arrays will presumably be nerfed when better FTL systems are introduced.

If it gets too overpowered on ships, we could always introduce a hard debuff to turning speed for every litho armor block on a ship, asteroid, or other dynamic physics object (including docked entities and turrets)... This would not be nearly as conspicuous as an "ERROR: Cannot place this block on ships!" and would feel more natural, while still dealing with the issue - if the ship used turrets and remained mostly stationary, it would basically be a station that can jump but can't use station blocks. Not a very big deal unless someone makes a HUGE one, and if they do, just board it or retreat to your own station...

 

[Valiant70]

It would be a good start to just remove the in-combat shield regen reduction from non-ship entities (station, planet, asteroid).