Thrust multiplier way, WAY, WAAAAAYYYY off.
- Thread starter Majorfatboy
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AndyP
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I didnt get a reply about this from schema yet.
Placed it on top of my buglist, and will ask again as soon as possible.
I will state the outcome/answere here as soon as I know it.
(But for now I assume its working as intended, and the dimensional boost is a prestate to upcoming changes)
- Andy
Placed it on top of my buglist, and will ask again as soon as possible.
I will state the outcome/answere here as soon as I know it.
(But for now I assume its working as intended, and the dimensional boost is a prestate to upcoming changes)
- Andy
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sad
Soooooooooooooo. A patch comes out, and I find My ships thrust acting radically different. So different, that most of My ships are unplayable.
I re-check the changelog for said patch, and see that there is ZERO mention of any changes being done to thruster behavior. In fact, according to My web browser\'s find function, the word \"thrust\", \"thruster\", or anything beginning with the \"thru\" is not even in the changelog. I then suspect that this is a bug.
I take the time to collect screencaps and info on the situation, and post a possible bug topic on the forum. I provide sample ships to test with.
It\'s been nearly two weeks. Where is the confirmation or denial of this situation? It would take a whole 30 seconds to log in here and post either: \"It\'s a bug, not working as intended\", or \"It\'s not a bug, this is working as intended\".
Seriously.
I wasn\'t kidding when I said this issue has rendered most of My ships, and therefore by extension the game itself, nearly unplayable, as I would need to radically modify them to make them usable, but if this is a bug then the last thing I\'d want to do is modify anything.
I\'d like to play the video game, so I\'m just going to assume that this is working as intended, and that the changelog is unreliable poop.
Just thought I\'d stop in and let you know your support sucks.
Soooooooooooooo. A patch comes out, and I find My ships thrust acting radically different. So different, that most of My ships are unplayable.
I re-check the changelog for said patch, and see that there is ZERO mention of any changes being done to thruster behavior. In fact, according to My web browser\'s find function, the word \"thrust\", \"thruster\", or anything beginning with the \"thru\" is not even in the changelog. I then suspect that this is a bug.
I take the time to collect screencaps and info on the situation, and post a possible bug topic on the forum. I provide sample ships to test with.
It\'s been nearly two weeks. Where is the confirmation or denial of this situation? It would take a whole 30 seconds to log in here and post either: \"It\'s a bug, not working as intended\", or \"It\'s not a bug, this is working as intended\".
Seriously.
I wasn\'t kidding when I said this issue has rendered most of My ships, and therefore by extension the game itself, nearly unplayable, as I would need to radically modify them to make them usable, but if this is a bug then the last thing I\'d want to do is modify anything.
I\'d like to play the video game, so I\'m just going to assume that this is working as intended, and that the changelog is unreliable poop.
Just thought I\'d stop in and let you know your support sucks.
AndyP
Customer Experience Manager
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instead of doing something like this.
Yes it is changed on purpose, and yes it was bugged before and is now working as intended.
Former turrets and other attachments werent taken into account in you movement, now they are all calculated correctly. Thus this eats much more energy to move, but fewer thrusters.
Oh yes, sorry, forgot to repost here.
But dont judge the whole support by this, this would not be fair at all.
No one is being left without answers on purpose.
Thats for sure.
- Andy
Yes it is changed on purpose, and yes it was bugged before and is now working as intended.
Former turrets and other attachments werent taken into account in you movement, now they are all calculated correctly. Thus this eats much more energy to move, but fewer thrusters.
Oh yes, sorry, forgot to repost here.
But dont judge the whole support by this, this would not be fair at all.
No one is being left without answers on purpose.
Thats for sure.
- Andy
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To Quote Schema himself
http://star-made.org/comment/98489#comment-98489
I didn\'t really change anything purposefully with thrust. There may be some correcting things that have caused this (wrong calculation in another place fixed).
The calculation itself is not permanent at all and will be balanced
I am quite pleased with the new changes so far, the system makes more sense then it used to. Originally you would get the best thrust-mass ratio from building your thrusters like power plants but it makes sense that LARGE thruster packs would be more efficient. Most of my ships were built with a waffle pattern of thrusters and power cores, this lead to well balanced ships, but after the update now all these ships have crap for thrust. I\'ve started to refit them with larger engine packs and now I am getting an increase over all stats. The number of thrusters needed to reach optimal thrust is less which means more room for power and shields. The first ship I\'ve refit now gets better thrust then before the update with 200 less thrusters.
I am having trouble getting a balanced thrust to mass on my fighters though.
http://star-made.org/comment/98489#comment-98489
I didn\'t really change anything purposefully with thrust. There may be some correcting things that have caused this (wrong calculation in another place fixed).
The calculation itself is not permanent at all and will be balanced
I am quite pleased with the new changes so far, the system makes more sense then it used to. Originally you would get the best thrust-mass ratio from building your thrusters like power plants but it makes sense that LARGE thruster packs would be more efficient. Most of my ships were built with a waffle pattern of thrusters and power cores, this lead to well balanced ships, but after the update now all these ships have crap for thrust. I\'ve started to refit them with larger engine packs and now I am getting an increase over all stats. The number of thrusters needed to reach optimal thrust is less which means more room for power and shields. The first ship I\'ve refit now gets better thrust then before the update with 200 less thrusters.
I am having trouble getting a balanced thrust to mass on my fighters though.
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I feel that you are over-reacting. Its not like other patches haven\'t made ships need to be modified, or thrown out the window and re-made before. I had been wondering how my capital ship can now go from 0-200 in under three seconds, but it also drains all of the power doing so. I don\'t think its that bad, I need to modify that ship now, but it really could be worse.
Keep in mind that every person who is on these forums has a life, and is human. Even just going through and checking the threads I am following, which would be much less than Andy is, can be hard and I miss a few.
Keep in mind that every person who is on these forums has a life, and is human. Even just going through and checking the threads I am following, which would be much less than Andy is, can be hard and I miss a few.
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@TheSavageOne:
Please re-read what I had typed. I have no problem altering My ships. The problem, as I\'ll say again is:
After the patch there was a massive, undocumented change that radically altered how ships work and rendered the game mostly unplayable if left unadjusted. Seeing as this was not in the change log I thought it might be a bug. I provided information, asked for clarification, clarification that would take a whole 30 seconds to type, and waited patiently.......... And never heard back. For two weeks.
And if you think My post was unnecessary, look at it from My point of view: The only way I was able to get help on a painfully simple request was to be a jerk on a public forum, something I\'d rather avoid. But if being a jerk is the only way to get help, then I guess I get to make a jerk of Myself.
Please re-read what I had typed. I have no problem altering My ships. The problem, as I\'ll say again is:
After the patch there was a massive, undocumented change that radically altered how ships work and rendered the game mostly unplayable if left unadjusted. Seeing as this was not in the change log I thought it might be a bug. I provided information, asked for clarification, clarification that would take a whole 30 seconds to type, and waited patiently.......... And never heard back. For two weeks.
And if you think My post was unnecessary, look at it from My point of view: The only way I was able to get help on a painfully simple request was to be a jerk on a public forum, something I\'d rather avoid. But if being a jerk is the only way to get help, then I guess I get to make a jerk of Myself.
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I was worried that if I went and refit all my designs, and then have it turn out to have been a bug; I\'d have to refit them all over again. For the record; I\'m rather conservative. I\'d like to be taken to dinner before I GET SCREWED.
It would have taken less than a minute to add a note mentioning the thruster changes; There\'s obviously more than one person who can post it. THIS IS A MAJOR GAME MECHANIC CHANGE AFTER ALL.
It would have taken less than a minute to add a note mentioning the thruster changes; There\'s obviously more than one person who can post it. THIS IS A MAJOR GAME MECHANIC CHANGE AFTER ALL.
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Because of this bug, I\'m being careful to build thruster groups in such a way that they can be easily altered later on as necessary.
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Ok, so thrusters are working as intended. Got it.
Now to scrap every ship I\'ve ever built....
At least now I dont have to worry about any new ships needing to be remade later. That was my main concern.
Now to scrap every ship I\'ve ever built....
At least now I dont have to worry about any new ships needing to be remade later. That was my main concern.
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Yes it is changed on purpose, and yes it was bugged before and is now working as intended.
If this is the case, and the thrusters are now correct and not bugged, then does than mean that the power generators are bugged?
As I understand it, thrusters and power generators give bonuses with the same block arrangements, which is what I have used in all my ships. So here is what I did as a test: spawned a core and used 10 thrusters and 10 power gens.
10 Power gens in arrangement of a single line (1x1x9) gives 1472.9 e/sec.
10 Power gens in a 3-axis array (3 blocks on each axis) gives 1472.9 e/sec (the same as the single line of blocks).
10 Thrusters in arrangement of a single line (1x1x9) gives 13.3 thrust.
10 Thrusters in a 3-axis array (3 blocks on each axis) gives 40.3 thrust.
I have changed over one of my ships to use the 3-axis array instead of single lines (which used to work like they do with power gens). This ship was only about 1/3rd of the thrust that it was before the update (was so sluggish). I removed all the thruster blocks, then put them back in with the 3-axis arrangement and obtained 4 times the (after update) thrust and still had 11,500 thruster blocks left over. So that\'s an extra 11,500 shield blocks I could add to the ship. This was only on one of my medium size (185m long) ships.
So is it the power gens that are still bugged, or the thrusters that are now bugged?
If this is the case, and the thrusters are now correct and not bugged, then does than mean that the power generators are bugged?
As I understand it, thrusters and power generators give bonuses with the same block arrangements, which is what I have used in all my ships. So here is what I did as a test: spawned a core and used 10 thrusters and 10 power gens.
10 Power gens in arrangement of a single line (1x1x9) gives 1472.9 e/sec.
10 Power gens in a 3-axis array (3 blocks on each axis) gives 1472.9 e/sec (the same as the single line of blocks).
10 Thrusters in arrangement of a single line (1x1x9) gives 13.3 thrust.
10 Thrusters in a 3-axis array (3 blocks on each axis) gives 40.3 thrust.
I have changed over one of my ships to use the 3-axis array instead of single lines (which used to work like they do with power gens). This ship was only about 1/3rd of the thrust that it was before the update (was so sluggish). I removed all the thruster blocks, then put them back in with the 3-axis arrangement and obtained 4 times the (after update) thrust and still had 11,500 thruster blocks left over. So that\'s an extra 11,500 shield blocks I could add to the ship. This was only on one of my medium size (185m long) ships.
So is it the power gens that are still bugged, or the thrusters that are now bugged?
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I\'ve noticed that shields seem to be affected from this as well, but I\'ve worked its because there is SOO little power left in your ship at any given time (due to the INSANE thrust increase), that the shields can\'t regenerate at full capacity and so even when your not under fire your shields are still regenerating really slowly just because you\'re moving. So since they\'re never regenerating at 100% anymore its harder to recover, and easier to die 
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AndyP, you said:
Former turrets and other attachments werent taken into account in you[r] movement, now they are all calculated correctly. Thus this eats much more energy to move, but fewer thrusters.
So this is (apparently) due to a previous turret (and other attachment) miscalculation, but many people here have posted about their problems with the new thrust extending to ALL of their ships, including their fighters and other ships without docks or turrets. I personally have had this problem with most of my fighters (almost exclusively so), most of them not having turrets (and I\'m assuming the ships I haven\'t seen this problem in yet, just don\'t have as obvious of a difference). Perhaps your explanation of the reason this \"isn\'t a bug\" was just lacking, but it sounds like you\'re just saying the same thing Schema said might be the reason for such massive increases in thrust when Sven_The_Slayer first asked about it in the comments of the news post for the first release candidate (said comment is quoted in reply #26) (original post: http://star-made.org/comment/98489#comment-98489).
I also couldn\'t help but notice the inconsistency in the responses we\'ve gotten from our queries into this matter...
Schema said:
I didn\'t really change anything purposefully with thrust.
But then, AndyP said (after \"hearing from Schema\")
Yes it is changed on purpose,
So, excuse me, but I\'m still really confused over here. Are you sure this IS DEFINITELY the reason why this is happening? ..In every single case of it reported, even ones with fighters (the ones without turrets or docks)? Is there some other part you forgot to mention? Is there something I\'m missing?
I\'ve gotten some pretty profound \"changes\" in thrust from my fighters. The most profound of which came from my Vulcan-Class Heavy Starfighter, which went from a thrust of 2,658.0 to a thrust of 41,415.0 after the update. Now, granted this fighter actually did have a turret on it, but I had saved versions of it both with and without the turret on it and both versions had the same thrust calculation and both (being over 41k (for a 423 mass ship)) were equally ridiculous.
Most of my fighters are now unable to keep up constant cannonfire in dogfights, and as such have become much less useful. They also suffer a shield regeneration problem (as I commented on above), due to their lack of power, they can no longer regenerate shields at (anywhere near) full capacity when moving, making recovery much more difficult. So basically, all of my fighters are now significantly less functional in most aspects of (StarMade) dogfighting.
I don\'t mean to sound angry at you or anyone in particular, I\'m just a bit frustrated with the fact that ALL of my previous ships now have serious problems with their designs and I will (if this is indeed \"not a bug\") have to redesign ALL of my ships...ALL OF THEM. Sorry again, it\'s just this seems quite extreme. Hopefully, you can see why I might be a little annoyed that to use any one of my old ships (for any purpose) I will first have to give it a FULL refit.
Hoping to get some clarification on this issue,
- Prep :D
Former turrets and other attachments werent taken into account in you[r] movement, now they are all calculated correctly. Thus this eats much more energy to move, but fewer thrusters.
So this is (apparently) due to a previous turret (and other attachment) miscalculation, but many people here have posted about their problems with the new thrust extending to ALL of their ships, including their fighters and other ships without docks or turrets. I personally have had this problem with most of my fighters (almost exclusively so), most of them not having turrets (and I\'m assuming the ships I haven\'t seen this problem in yet, just don\'t have as obvious of a difference). Perhaps your explanation of the reason this \"isn\'t a bug\" was just lacking, but it sounds like you\'re just saying the same thing Schema said might be the reason for such massive increases in thrust when Sven_The_Slayer first asked about it in the comments of the news post for the first release candidate (said comment is quoted in reply #26) (original post: http://star-made.org/comment/98489#comment-98489).
I also couldn\'t help but notice the inconsistency in the responses we\'ve gotten from our queries into this matter...
Schema said:
I didn\'t really change anything purposefully with thrust.
But then, AndyP said (after \"hearing from Schema\")
Yes it is changed on purpose,
So, excuse me, but I\'m still really confused over here. Are you sure this IS DEFINITELY the reason why this is happening? ..In every single case of it reported, even ones with fighters (the ones without turrets or docks)? Is there some other part you forgot to mention? Is there something I\'m missing?
I\'ve gotten some pretty profound \"changes\" in thrust from my fighters. The most profound of which came from my Vulcan-Class Heavy Starfighter, which went from a thrust of 2,658.0 to a thrust of 41,415.0 after the update. Now, granted this fighter actually did have a turret on it, but I had saved versions of it both with and without the turret on it and both versions had the same thrust calculation and both (being over 41k (for a 423 mass ship)) were equally ridiculous.
Most of my fighters are now unable to keep up constant cannonfire in dogfights, and as such have become much less useful. They also suffer a shield regeneration problem (as I commented on above), due to their lack of power, they can no longer regenerate shields at (anywhere near) full capacity when moving, making recovery much more difficult. So basically, all of my fighters are now significantly less functional in most aspects of (StarMade) dogfighting.
I don\'t mean to sound angry at you or anyone in particular, I\'m just a bit frustrated with the fact that ALL of my previous ships now have serious problems with their designs and I will (if this is indeed \"not a bug\") have to redesign ALL of my ships...ALL OF THEM. Sorry again, it\'s just this seems quite extreme. Hopefully, you can see why I might be a little annoyed that to use any one of my old ships (for any purpose) I will first have to give it a FULL refit.
Hoping to get some clarification on this issue,
- Prep :D