1. 15th of October, 2019: SMD is currently under maintenance, the site may go down while we are working on it. Apologies for the inconvenience.
    2. We've removed some functionality from SMD in preparation for a migration to new forum software.

    Thrust multiplier way, WAY, WAAAAAYYYY off.

    Discussion in 'Bugs' started by Majorfatboy, Mar 17, 2014.

    1. Majorfatboy

      Joined:
      Oct 6, 2013
      Messages:
      134
      Hello. As of V0.14, the thrust multiplier ( the more thrusters touching and forming a single, larger thruster, the greater the thrust bonus granted) is far higher then it was.

      I hopped in My light carrier after the patch, which was already unbalanced as hell to begin with speed-wise, hit [W], and found that I was accelerating waaaaay quicker then usual. I was also sucking down My power even worse then usual.

      I returned to base and got into My 223 mass starfighter, the P3800B, which I built just a few weeks ago. I made it a point to actually balance the thrust/power gen on this ship. It was perfect. So imagine My suprise when I hit [W] ...... And took off like a bat outta hell and instantly drained My powerplant!

      I went into build mode, saw My thrust rating, and, scientifically speaking, shit My pants.

      I take screencaps of the most of the stuff I build, so I hit the folder for this ship, pulled the old statshot, and, well, see for yourself:

      [​IMG]

      BY THE CROWN OF PRINCESS BUBBLEGUM! Four times the thrust!

      I then checked some of My other fighters. They're all much older designs that were a lot smaller, and therefore have much smaller engines. Even their stats were off, if only a little (Again, much, MUCH smaller engines).

      So, I'd hazard a guess and say that the bonus applied to many thrusters in a single engine is way the poop off.

      All of My favorite ships are nearly unusable...........
       
    2. ltmauve

      Joined:
      Aug 28, 2013
      Messages:
      1,835
      I noticed that I was getting reasonable thrust values for flat thruster arrays, and then the thrust (and power consumption) was going way up whenever I started adding blocks in the y-direction.
       
    3. AndyP

      AndyP Customer Experience Manager

      Joined:
      Aug 15, 2013
      Messages:
      1,174
      Somewhere between the releases the thruster was adjusted to better work in groups (like the powertanks do).
      Also now the mass of turrets is calculated in the needed thrust, so the general higher \'thrust usage\' + higher power drains power more quickly.

      It should not go up by factor 4 without any modification, do you have the blueprint saved in the last release version? In this case i\'d like to check that myself, since i have seen the increase within the patches, but it was not that high.

      - Andy
       
    4. Cirdanoth

      Joined:
      Aug 20, 2013
      Messages:
      174
      It\'s got to do with the dimensional bonuses, yap. I had an even more extreme case..

      From 650 to 21K thrust. Guess it means we\'ll be building way smaller engines.
       
    5. Majorfatboy

      Joined:
      Oct 6, 2013
      Messages:
      134
      @AndyP:

      All of My blueprints are from before this latest patch (0.14), I\'ve never uploaded a bluepirnt before, what\'s the best way to do it? Do I e-mail them, or get a file locker service like megas or something? I can send you My two most obvious cases;

      1st: My 4000 mass light carrier who\'s thrust went from 19,282.9 to 56,740.9. This is an older ship that I didn\'t balance the thruster / power gen on very well (lol gas guzzler), but it did work fine pre-0.14.

      2nd: My 223 mass starfighter that\'s pictured in the OP. This one was balanced and never had power issues. It also has no docked items at all, so there should be no extra mass to deal with.

      Will provide anything else you\'d like.
       
    6. Mowa2

      Joined:
      Jun 24, 2013
      Messages:
      107
      The thrusters have always had a small bones when you\'d place them like the power blocks, so if you had any efficient design back then, you are completely screwed now...
       
    7. DJ-Col7

      Joined:
      Aug 11, 2013
      Messages:
      56
      The way i see it the less engines i have to slap on the more shielding i can add in.
       
    8. War Dog

      Joined:
      Jul 3, 2013
      Messages:
      222
      I can hit 25,000 thrust with less than 200 thrusters. It IS kind of ridiculous, but it frees up space.

      It seriously annoyed me at first, but now I can slap on more weapons on my ships.
       
    9. Majorfatboy

      Joined:
      Oct 6, 2013
      Messages:
      134
      Well, I / We still don\'t know if this is working as intended or a bug, so this a conversation I\'d rather see in a separate thread, but if this is considered working as intended, I don\'t think I like it much.

      Again, this should be discussed elsewhere, and after we establish weather this is as Schema intended or a bug.
       
    10. AndyP

      AndyP Customer Experience Manager

      Joined:
      Aug 15, 2013
      Messages:
      1,174
      Any fileservice will do for this,
      based on the expected size, you could even mail them to me.

      Will PM you my mail.

      - Andy
       
    11. AndyP

      AndyP Customer Experience Manager

      Joined:
      Aug 15, 2013
      Messages:
      1,174
      Will check the blueprint.
      There are some very rare cases where the thrust will go up drastically, but in fact it should not do that this much.
      It maybe a bug, or some problem with saving in the old version, maybe even conversion problem. (New networking of functional blocks may have calculated the whole net multiple times)

      Anyways when this high multiplier is repdroducable on my local client, I will forward the blueprint to schema to check why this is happening.

      - Andy
       
    12. HaViC is Chaos

      Joined:
      Jul 7, 2013
      Messages:
      126
      Pre-patch its max speed was 7-8kph that I know for sure (I do not know its exact thrust). Post patch it has 330k thrust. When I put the thrust I made a line through the center up to where the gun starts and extended it in both axis. I did this just for symytries sake not expecting any significant thrust.

      This in essence proves that thrust now works just like power (the regen). I do not believe this was intended and if I were you I would not build thrusters based on this new system until it is confirmed to stay.
       
    13. refirendum

      Joined:
      Aug 31, 2013
      Messages:
      633
      if it\'s confirmed to stay, i\'m going to hack out a bunch of thrusters from all my ships and replace with shield lol
       
    14. busterbleede

      Joined:
      Sep 19, 2013
      Messages:
      30
      its always nice to be abelt o scale downt he room used by trusters less trusters for mroe trust is like a dream XD
       
    15. Greenfire32

      Joined:
      Mar 19, 2014
      Messages:
      17
      I can add to this by saying my thrust is also completely way off. Capital ships are running out of power just turning now, and smaller fighters/shuttle craft are jumping systems in seconds with a tap on the accelerator.

      If this is how thrusters are supposed to work now, I\'m fine with that. But it makes me super nervous to build anything without knowing whether or not I\'m over/under performing in terms of thrust.

      Can we get confirmation on whether this is a bug or a new behavior ASAP?
       
    16. AndyP

      AndyP Customer Experience Manager

      Joined:
      Aug 15, 2013
      Messages:
      1,174
      checking this the evening.
      Will state the next steps then here.

      - Andy
       
    17. rocketman221

      Joined:
      Aug 25, 2013
      Messages:
      180
      I can get over 500,000 thrust with 251 thruster blocks. I can definatly make the engines smaller now. I hope they don\'t change this.
       
    18. Majorfatboy

      Joined:
      Oct 6, 2013
      Messages:
      134
      Soooooooooo..... Is this confirmed as a bug, or working as intended? I really would like to know. I wasn\'t kidding when I said most of My ships were unusable due to this. If this is a bug, then I \'ll just play with what I\'ve got and wait for a hotfix. If it\'s NOT a bug, then I need to know so I can rework the engine / powerplants on all of My ships.

      I hope this is a bug. The following ship had a thrust rating of 219.8 before the patch. After the patch it jumped up to 409, just outside of the powerplant\'s capabilities. I was updating the ship with those glorious new Tetras and Pentas, including re/moving a few blocks here and there. I had a free spot on each side of the underbelly, right next to the engine, so I figured I\'d fill those two spots with thruster blocks, just to see what happens.............



      If this is considered \"working as intended\", then game balance just went out the window. Players will be able to make heavily armed, heavily armored, heavily shielded ships and still move fast on top of it because they were not forced to give up mass for a powerful engine.

      Waiting for confirmation.
       
    19. Greenfire32

      Joined:
      Mar 19, 2014
      Messages:
      17
      I\'m just going to assume it\'s a bug, and not build any new ships for now (which kinda sucks cuz I was really getting the building itch) and wait for a fix.

      Also, I haven\'t tested this in any real detail, but it feels like my shields are weaker as well. This could mean that an issue with the power blocks exists as well as the thruster\'s issue. But again, this is something that I haven\'t actually tested so...grains of salt.
       
    20. Cirdanoth

      Joined:
      Aug 20, 2013
      Messages:
      174
      It\'s just thrust which is acting differently, and it\'s mostly about dimensions. Filling up the dimensions gives less thrust, adding a block to a dimension gives a boosted thrust. It simply means dimensionally big thrusters will gain a high boost, less so than filled out thrusters.

      A lot of thrust does however make for incredible power-consumption on high mass vehicles.. So much so, that it is kind of prohibitive, due to the way energy generation has a soft-cap. 25e/s per block does not weigh against the extra energy used for thrust required for its mass. I\'d say, turn your engines to where you can keep a stable speed without consuming power in your battery, fill the rest up with extra shields/weapons/interior, and you\'re good to go.
       
    Loading...