StarMade Weapons Update Prebuild

    Discussion in 'Game News' started by schema, Jun 24, 2018.

    1. Spartan-228

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      You can adjust the recoil in the configs if you don't like it, but I think you are just not looking at it the right way. The cannon+beam is a very powerful weapon, however it has recoil which means you have to balance the size of your gun with the weight of your ship. Beam+beam is also very powerful but has the draw back of loosing your shields when you charge it up. So you see the new system is designed with some give and take that will have to be taken into consideration when rebuilding your weapons.

      I had the same problem with cannons not doing anything to armor, but than I restarted my game and they work great now.

      If you look above I have put a post in explaining how to fix the sort range issue, and remember this is a prebuild. I suspect that the weapons range is subject to change after some testing.

      Recoil and impact force are amazing, and make perfect sense if you know anything about physics. It doesn't mater what weapon you are using, the only thing I can think of that would not have recoil would be lasers, missiles, and recoilless rifles. Even so called energy weapons will have recoil as they are still propelling some sort of matter out of a gun barrel. And of course when an object is hit by high speed matter the matter is going to go through, the object is going to move, or both.

      In the end the only thing I have to complain about is the weapons range, and that can easily be fixed in the configs. And again I suspect it will be changed before full release.

      EDIT: I do have one other thing to complain about and that is that mass removal and replacing block types is bugged, as in it dose not work reliably.
       
      #21 Spartan-228, Jun 25, 2018
      Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
    2. Zoolimar

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      In a game not about physics specifically they always come after gameplay and performance concerns. Even Kerbal Space Program simplifies physics due to gameplay and performance suffering from it. Especially performance.

      What do you think will happen if someone will go over an enemy fleet with a high-ROF waffle gun?
       
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    3. Cluwne

      Joined:
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      • Hostility III
      Recoil is a rеtarded idea. This isn't a fucking first-person shooter you nitwits, it's a space kinda-sim sandbox.
      Over the huge distances in space tiniest amount of recoil means 9 out of 10 shots will miss the mark.
      For example, a machine gun combo will only hit it's target with it's first shot and miss the rest because LOL RECOIL SO FUN GAIZ!
      We have out-the-ass magical omni-directional thrusters that easily negate inertia. Why can't they compensate (aka remove) the recoil?
      Physics my ass. No one in their right mind would use a weapon that sends you flying in the opposite direction every time you fire it.
      I know, stupidity is apparently contagious and both the playerbase and developer team have been thoroughly infected, but you gotta draw the line somewhere.
      I don't give a rat's ass if it "feels good" to have recoil. Leave it as purely decorative screen shake if you must, just don't fuck with my ships please.
      As I said before, this isn't a first-person shooter - it doesn't need realistic recoil.

      Oh and I'm also pretty damn pissed beams got shafted yet again. Tiny range with damage 60% falloff? Are you shitting me? You might as well have kept Pulse with that range. Space is bigger than your backyard y'know. A lot bigger.
      And dropping your energy shield pants every time you charge the double beam? Well, that's close to recoil-level of stupid.
      Why do you people insist on adding most ridiculous, nonsensical and impractical drawbacks to anything even remotely fun or useful?
      I understand, I really do, masochism is a thing in certain groups of people, especially coders, but I implore you to remember that the playerbase of this eternal beta of a game consists of more than just idiots, roleplayers with special needs and spineless yes-men.
      Some of us want to enjoy things without wading our way through bullshit restrictions and arbitrary rules you oh-so-eagerly impose on us because it's somehow justified in your head, despite you having next to zero actual experience of your own creation, no idea of what it actually needs and absolutely no vision of it's finished form.

      But hey, at least there's now this cool new damage model that simulates shooting hollow-points, volley fire mode, lead indicator and shields regenerating under fire so it can't all be so bad, right? Right?

      P.S. Add a goddamn zoom already. It's kinda hard to hit stuff far away with """""artillery""""" cannons when on screen it's the size of a friggin' pixel.
       
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    4. Admiralkio

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      • Hostility I
      Ah, a cluwne. One of Rasinbat's brothers.

      Similarly to the actual behavior of cluwnes, you're just screaming.

      Your arguement boils down to 'you don't cater to my toxic sector of the playerbase specifically', and 'i don't like the changes'.

      Hot take: suggest ways to fix the things you don't like. Seems bloody impossible for a lot of people in this community.

      I'd also take you more seriously if you literally didn't have the worst mentality from one of the most toxic communities around, our lovely little spaceman simulator.
       
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    5. Ckeeze

      Ckeeze innovator

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      you know that's not an excuse... "YOU CAN CONFIG IT SO IT'S OKAY THAT THEY SCREWED UP"
      The problem with "You can configure it" Is that most servers will use the standard and if the standard settings ARE FUCKIN' SHIT, Most servers will be completely BONKERS to play...
      I don't fuckin' CARE that they can be adjusted, that's not an excuse for a terrible design! just set the standard settings to something that is playable, wich would be:
      ALMOST NO RECOIL (1% of default, basicly a little "shake" to add wieght to a shot)
      At least 2 times higher range for most weapons, WE ARE IN SPACE! I'm not gonna HUG the other ship sence we have a million kilometers of empty void each direction to travel!
      At least 4 times better accuracy, so the range CAN be used! We have jump drives don't tell me my scifi spacegun can't predict targets a few kilometers away...

      Feel free to debate what would be a working standard.
       
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    6. Captain Fortius

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      Aug 10, 2013
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      Deafult weapon range of 4 kilometers!

      It's quite good for large ships, but have you tried having a small craft vs small craft dogfight? Have fun trying to hit each other at 4km range.

      Scaling weapon range USED to be a thing in this game, yet it was removed in the name of "progress"....

      Edit:

      Lol, with this range, attack craft don't even need to launch from the mothership to reach their targets! Just open the hangar bays and let them act as door gunners :D
       
      #26 Captain Fortius, Jun 25, 2018
      Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
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    7. Ckeeze

      Ckeeze innovator

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      yupp my suggestion is have the cannon-cannon at lower range (buff it's dps or something for balance) and have the cannon-beam with larger range (nerf it a bit for balance).
      Cannon-cannon (and missiles) is most usable for dogfight anyway(No big armor no need for alpha strike, + high fire rate means easier hits)
      Meanwhile cannon-beam MEANT to be arty weapon then extend it's range, it's useless for dogfights anyway sence it's hard to aim against small fast targets.
       
    8. Cluwne

      Joined:
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      • Hostility II
      You make it sound like a bad thing.
      Much like the third wave femenists and other similarly mentally-challenged minorities you appear to have persecution complex and call everyone not in agreement with you toxic, swarming them like a flock of angry hens.
      Then again, meds used in chemotherapy are always most toxic to the cancer...
      Hello Pot, I'm Kettle. Nice to meet you.
      In case your righteous wrath got better of you and you missed the part where I'm telling how to fix it:

      I don't see how this is a bad thing really. Small ships stay just at the edge of weapon range and pummel bigger ships, using their size and speed to evade returned fire like a very annoying mosquito buzzing just out of your reach. All this achieves is allowing small ships to make use of their smaller profile and agility.
      If you need to swat a fly, don't use other flies - use a fly swatter. Use a missile ship with lock-ons. Small ships can't support good PDs.
      Carrier is obviously bigger than an attack craft, easier to hit and costly to replace. As amusing as this idea is, it's uneconomical.
       
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    9. Admiralkio

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      There it is.

      That took you a shockingly long amount of time. I'm genuinely impressed.

      You missed the point of 'maybe you should leave the flaming out of the suggestion' part. And post in the suggestions forum. Really gets the noggin' joggin'.

      But calling me, and others, mentally challenged is not going to get anyone on your side. Nor will dragging politics into our 3d blockship simulator.

      You are genuinely toxic: there is no other way to put it. The fact that you consider yourself and Rasinbat equal confirms that, but at least you don't spew multi-page long arguments about why someone is 'a fucking autist'.

      Oh.

      Wait.
       
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    10. Majikmonster

      Joined:
      Aug 13, 2017
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      FYI: The parts of the update post that were links or were supposed to link to the bug reports page have no hyperlink attached.

      Prebuild Cons:
      - I have a couple issues with the advanced build mode tools, particularly with removing blocks not being consistent with the reticle or the build/remove preview.
      - Cannot stop ship from spinning while in freecam mode.
      - There's a bug(?) where you have to use left click AND right click to activate computers on the hotbar that have charged fully, such as the jump drive, scanner, stealth drive, etc.
      - Volley fire doesn't focus (was that intended?) and it doesn't work for cannon+missile (charge shot). It only fires one shot, if it fires at all.
      - Sometimes a ship's stats don't reflect the actual damage sustained from hits.
      - Transparency of projectiles/trails gives the ability to see through blocks, revealing interiors and the power stream of a ship/station.
      - Shields feel incredibly weak for their cost in modules.
      - Perma-cloak costs more than 100% RC :(

      Prebuild Pros:
      - Shot lead indicator is a major quality of life improvement for combat.
      - Updates to visuals make the HUD more appealing and easier to see guages in peripheral. Block textures are crisp (compliments to kupukupu). Projectiles are beautiful (especially beams).
      - Variety in weapon type functions (ex: charge, latch-on, damage shape).
      - Armor overhaul makes alternate types of ship skinning effective.
      - We can now see weak points in armor with the direction calculation feature
      - No more fighting flying shreds of Isanth hull to get ArmorHP and StructureHP down!
      - Bombs
      - Mines

      Suggestions:
      - HUD indicator for ReactorHP
      - Heat seekers won't attack allies or same faction (probably won't happen, but it would be nice, especially with missile mines in the game)
      - Beams and Tractor Beams can latch onto astronauts

      Remarks:
      - Ships can (still) achieve FTL travel with cannons (JW caught some footage of that when it was easier to do)
      - Kinetic damage on station turrets is a fantastic way to make pirates dance and flee (against their will) without the ill effects of recoil
      - Projectiles scale with group size (damage) instead of layout
       
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    11. Ckeeze

      Ckeeze innovator

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      Excuse me I have a trolling to do!
      --- Updated post (merge), Jun 25, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 25, 2018 ---
      Please could you guys stop!
      Yeah cluwne shouldn't have went so overzealous about his critic but you certeanly should stop unnecesary provocations, I mean could you read back and see how much a douche you sound like?

      "That took you a shockingly long amount of time. I'm genuinely impressed."

      Yeah he is not 24/7 on the forum deal with it...

      "You are genuinely toxic: there is no other way to put it. The fact that you consider yourself and Rasinbat equal confirms that, but at least you don't spew multi-page long arguments about why someone is 'a fucking autist'.
      Oh.
      Wait."

      Disregard his entire arguement becouse of his tone GREAT JOB! also sarcasm has an effect of you know making people angry instead of finding the solution, I wouldn't recommend using it outside of trolling... also maybe he wouldn't call you an autist if you wouldn't attack him in a completely disrespectfull tone.
       
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    12. Edymnion

      Edymnion Carebear Extraordinaire!

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      Don't engage. Just report and move along with your day.
       
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    13. Ckeeze

      Ckeeze innovator

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      Report button is for pussies, :D
      like I refuse to push it EVEN when recieving direct insults nothing should be censored in the internet! Look at this way, their mistakes shall be displayed, or if they weren't actually that toxic they will be alloved to exchange their point of view...
       
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    14. Edymnion

      Edymnion Carebear Extraordinaire!

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      I believe the point here is "They went too far. You can change the setting to something better on your own until they fix it."

      No one gets this kind of thing right the first time they do it. And when in doubt, you go too harsh first so that the community feels better when the adjustments make it more lenient, instead of going too little and make people mad when you make it harsher.

      If its too high right now, they will take feedback into account and adjust it in a following patch or hotfix. Until that time, each user can adjust it themselves so they don't have to live with it.

      Its not a case of "There is no such thing as a mistake if you can fix it yourself" (thats the oldschool pen and paper Oberroni Fallacy right there), its a case of "Yeah, that doesn't feel right, tweak it to a setting that feels good to you, then tell Schine what that setting was so they can try it for themselves."
       
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    15. Ckeeze

      Ckeeze innovator

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      But that's what I was doing, telling the fact that i found the setting to be wrong. I also made suggestions, but my taste of combat is LOOONG ranged so it may be biased.
       
    16. Spartan-228

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      You may or may not be right about that. So far the game seams to be running fine for me, however I understand this could change as I push the game more and more. But to complain about these new features seams silly, this is a prebuild the developers said
      "With more exposure, it will be easier to find those less critical issues and ensure stability before we can release it to everyone to use.
      If you come across anything new that doesn’t work or you believe you’ve located a new bug, report that here to help us out: Report a Bug (Release Candidate)
      In case you’re not too sure about it, feel free to leave a comment on this thread."

      This is a testing faze to see if what they have built will work, so go out there and push the new system to the limit and then talk about your findings. Don't bash it because you think it will effect performance, only criticize it when you have proof it effects performance.

      First to your P.S. THEY DID ADD ZOOM! have you played this build yet? I found it the first time I fired my weapon because I normally use the right mouse buttons to fire my sniper cannons.

      It is sort of a first person shooter as the third person options sucks. Any way I don't know what you are shooting at, but I found with my long range test that I could easily hit capital ships with my spinal mount, they even give you a fancy lead indicator (granted this could be refined a little as the lead indicator can be as big as the ship you are fighting at) Also the recoil dose not effect the accuracy of your shot as it takes place after the round has left your gun (could it be toned down some maybe). Now I have not tested a cannon+cannon build powerful enough to toss my ship around, but maybe you should think about making your gun smaller. I found I do not need as big a gun to do the same damage from the old build.
      Also it is not a feel good issue it is a balance issue, the new cannons and beams would be OP as hell without the negative side to them. Cannons having recoil means you have to balance you gun size with you ships weight, beam+beam is a scary weapon even on the small side negates your shields wile it is charging.

      And just as a side note every one uses a weapon that could sends them flying in the opposite direction every time they fire it. The only thing stopping that from happening is gravity, friction, and their weight. If you were to go into space right now you would have to build a ship big enough to use the gun you wanted or it would go flying in the opposite direction. Also if you don't like it don't take it way from us that do, you could suggest that those things by default be turned off in the configs, and if enough people agree with you that might happen, but it is a feature that many of us appreciate.
      P.S. In WW2 some pilots had to be careful because their guns had so much recoil they could stall their airplane, The P-40E would actual turn if you forgot to turn on the guns in one of the wings and only fired half of them.


      I did not notes that beams got shafted any worse than any thing ells, for me when I started the game all weapons had a range of 4000 meters and the beam weapons I tested (they were smaller than their cannon counter parts by the way) cut through my target ship like it was a knife through hot butter, and that thing is 100x100x50 meters of advanced armor. As for beam+beam essentially dropping you shields wile you charge it. It makes sense if you have read anything the devs have said in the past about beam+beam, they were worried it was too OP and this seams to be their way of balancing it. Now I am not sure this is the best way to do that, but I am going to keep my mouth shut about it until I have a better alternative.
      I will agree that default weapons ranges need to be buffed, and I have stated this, but I am not going to call foul on the first prebuild everything is subject to possible changes.

      Damn every one needs to chill a little. I F****** agree that the ranges need to be buffed, but like I said before this is a god damn PREBUILD! for all you know the devs may still be testing weapons ranges and felt that it would be better to leave weapons ranges at 4000 meters for this build. If you don't like it by all means make suggestion on how it could be improved in the full release of this build. For now we are playing the part of beta testers, so if you don't like something don't bitch and moan about it and call the devs stupid. Test the game as is, make a list of things that work and don't work, then if you are not lazy play with the configs and see if you can make it better, and then after all that comeback and tell use your likes, dislikes, how you think it could be improved, and if you did play with the configs show us what you did.

      EDIT: And for the love of god pleas remember the point of this game is not to make you an over powered monster. If there is something that is a disadvantage for you remember it is the same for every one ells. Try seeing the bigger picture, how all the advantages and disadvantages can check and balance each other.
       
      #36 Spartan-228, Jun 25, 2018
      Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
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    17. Ckeeze

      Ckeeze innovator

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      Can you not call out people for giving their toughts about the prebuild, while feedback IS THE REASON prebuild exists? Like both of us told what would be ideal in our opinion, the overzealousy was just a way to express how URGENT each of us think the problems are with the pre build.
       
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    18. Spartan-228

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      Maybe I am over reacting, The thing that is getting to me is that people seam to be bashing one thing, but not taking into consideration how that thing ties into other things. So you want them to change X, but what about Y and Z since they will be effected as well.
      I also felt the overemphasis on the weapons range was unfair as they just changed how the weapons range works.
      The old system was based off of the sector range in your server configs. However now it is based off of the default sector size which is 2000 meters. So since the value is 2.0 weapons range will be 4000 meters no mater what you set your sector size to in your server configs.
      One can complain about how short the weapons range is, but you have to understand that the new system is operating under the assumption that the sector size is 2k x 2k x 2k this means that by default the weapons range is travailing two sectors and every time the a weapon or ship crosses sectors that adds the workload of the system. So it is possible that the devs felt extending that range would be detrimental to the games performance. So along with buffing default weapons range we should also be asking for a buff in default sector size.
       
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    19. Edymnion

      Edymnion Carebear Extraordinaire!

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      The overzealous response has a long history on these boards of having been used by some very toxic people for so long it is seen as "You're all stupid, my way is the only right way, the game is going to die if you don't do exactly what I say right now!", no matter what your intentions are.

      I assure you at this point a calm, reasoned response that lays out the facts in, well, a matter of fact tone will garner FAR more attention and positive results than an overzealous "they sky is falling!" presentation.

      Trying to be overzealous at this point is the fastest way to make sure you are ignored.
       
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    20. Valiant70

      Valiant70 That crazy cyborg

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      Picard Facepalm.jpg
      To be quite honest, it is. I find it odd that you don't see kinship to the self-proclaimed "raging troll" as a bad thing.
      More namecalling is it? The toxin is indeed more toxic to the cancer, which should be evident when the moderators swing by. Please stop doing this.
      Tu quoque. You've not absolved yourself by any means.
      You had a good idea, but (understandably) no one bothered reading it amidst the maelstrom of profanity and ad hominem attacks.

      A word of advice: People are fickle creatures. If you want them to listen to what you have to say, you have to get them to like you, or at the very least avoid provoking them. You could possibly contribute a lot to the game and discussions about the game if you didn't lower yourself to flinging insults. The dev team in particular seems to have no time or use for posts laced with vitriol, so changing your writing style will be necessary if you want to make any impact on the game's direction.
       
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