StarMade v0.199.214 Auxiliary Power, Better Graphics, Better Textures, and Bugfixes

    Lone_Puppy

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    I'm sure someone would figure out a way to weaponize that system...but you have defeated me in honorable and fair combat so I accede defeat. :p
    lol

    I agree with you that human ingenuity will find a way! :)
    As with docked reactors, it was an ingenious idea. Sadly, one that came with a heavy cost it seems.

    I'm sure I'm not the only one to think of how easily weaponising the new auxiliary power is. ;)
     

    Darkkon

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    yeah...fit a warhead to the tip of it and fire a bunch of em at the enemy....maybe with some grapple legs or something
     
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    We all wish that that were possible. However, there's not enough explosions in a small-sized one of these to make it worthwhile. If it would continue detonating until gone, THEN you go make a parasitic device that squishes close to an enemy's hull (Player-driven, most likely) before starting an overload sequence via warhead.
     
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    Darkkon

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    We all wish that that were possible. However, there's not enough explosions in a small-sized one of these to make it worthwhile. If it would continue detonating until gone, THEN you go make a parasitic device that squishes close to an enemy's hull (Player-driven, most likely) before starting an overload sequence via warhead.
    Even if its not efficient, someone will do it anyway.
     
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    This is true! But if it's inside their ship and the rest of the undocked entity ghosts and the warheads don't, boom! Hello belly ache. :)
    That means making collision check even more numbers that it shouldn't need to. It also wouldn't matter to the ship it was in, a single warhead going off while it's taking bad enough hits to lose internals isn't going to matter. Along with that it means torpedos could get their charge right onto a hull instead of losing it to the trigger and front plate.


    And not directed to you, the thread just highlights it: is everyone that plays the game awful?
     
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    More efficient and effective to just use warheads, even with their present vanilla-config weakness.
     
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    Howdy folks. Now that the discussion has cooled down somewhat, I'd like to provide some information, and put my two cents in.

    Before we can even do this, we need to research AUX blocks. As some of the devs said, they'd like the playerbase to really give them a good try first, and we agree with that notion :)
    It took the Syndicus's R&D department an hour to figure these new blocks out, so let's take a look at the numbers.


    We've started using the code name "AUX" for these blocks, as it's far easier then the other option :)

    First, Let's look at the scaling of AUX blocks.

    Notice anything? The more astute among you would have noticed that this curve is precisely the same as reactor modules, the only difference being that more blocks are in use. Once you reach the 2 million point, the bonus starts to curve off, and the blocks assume a liner curve.

    Next let's look at the power cap scaling.

    As we can see, the scaling is completely liner, and requires no further investigation. We however, wanted a more detailed look at this curve, just to make sure.


    For some of you, these are just not enough, you'd like to do your own research, and we understand. So we're going to provide the steps we took and the raw numbers.

    First, the raw numbers:



    Now the steps
    First we started off with a scale. In the first spreadsheet, you can see that we went up by fives until we hit 20K, then we went up by tens. This is rather standard for us to do when we're investigating scaling, because it helps us narrow down the range. Once we did that, we went up by 2,4,6,8 and so on, we really got a clean image with that test.

    How we obtained these numbers is rather simple, ingame singleplayer buildstats. We then simply placed the desired amount down, and we then recorded it.

    So, after all that detail, what was the point? Some of you were arguing the merits of the AUX blocks, and others where damming it, (admittedly myself included) These stats give a clear and precise look into how AUX works, and it is now cleaned up the way for the final verdict.

    We, The Syndicus, feel that AUX blocks where the lesser of two evils, either new players get rekt, or we add something that is so simple a five year old could figure it out.

    We tried to help this issue by releasing our generators to the public, and, for the most part, alot of the newer players have been seen using these designs of ours, but removing docked reactors and replacing them with these aux blocks angered alot of the players in my group, mostly because of how long the game has had them, and how much love and attention to detail we've put into them.

    For Example:
    An entire video dedicated to the breakdown of our PSU Series.

    Its not that the AUX Blocks are a bad feature, schine, its that you've destroyed an entire community of dedicated players whom spent all their time tuning and revising generators.

    This community isn't very well known, and it's because this closed group keeps its secrets to itself that it's often almost completely forgotten, but it's one of the most passionate groups I've ever been in. People like myself, Blobfscrazy Maxajax Lionspirit03 alternateCGU and Vehcklox have spent years designing, refining, and researching into new ways to use axis trees, generators, and even general ship shapes.

    I can't possibly name all these players, and I know that there are more out there so I think I speak for everyone in this group when I say generators, axis trees, and all the surrounding features were not as simple as you might think.

    It wasn't as simple as bricks with power supply beams, it was far more complex. First you had to decide if you wanted an overclocked generator, where in you used the cap to go over the limit, or an under clocked generator, which provided less but was more stable. Then you had to make the most efficient power chassis possible.

    Then, you had to decide the format. 9x9 is indeed nice for long ships, but doesn't provide the space something like a square would provide 9x9 is also alot more vulnerable, since they where much longer and thus had a higher chance of being crippled.
    They had benefits though, their trees were often more block efficient, and they were easier to dock, maintain, and replace.

    We even had generators with invisible rails (the carrier stuff) so they wouldn't be blown off. Some of our designs even included a jump drive hooked into the clock which would insta jump out of colliding with the mothership.

    It was all about pros and cons, and each player had his own unique flare. You knew when you where looking at a generator I created, and you knew when you where looking at a maxajax generator.

    This is just a small example of the complexity involved in this, and as I've seen from maxajax, he's gone into much more detail then I will here.

    This complexity has been wiped away with AUX blocks, players are always going to find ways to make it slightly better, but you're never going to see the complexity of generators used on aux blocks.

    We've already been hit hard by the stealth nerf to axis trees, and the rise of checkerboard has seen some roughed feathers but we assumed schine would undoubtedly add some very creative way of making it balanced again, and this is the core problem..

    Things like hollow core and swivel trees were undoubtedly the biggest breakthroughs we've ever had in this department and for them to be completely wiped out is devastating.

    What is even more devastating, and this is what you really need to consider, is that we were given not extra content, no extra challenge when aux blocks where added. They are so simple to figure out, and placement so easy. Simply place down a 21x21x21 cube, and cover it in one layer of armor, place in the least likely position to be hit(Hell, just place them in generator bays, most people put these in the safest location possible), and you're done. (also, on a sidenote, TheGeek007 wishs to make the point that the explosions are really silly, and that they are. Since they never stop, small craft shouldn't use AUX blocks, only titans are "safe" from complete destruction from this slow decay.)

    What needs to take place is this, AUX Blocks must assume the role of providing ample power for those who cannot design reactors, and we must have something to sink our teeth into.

    Give the end game content players something to really chew on.
    Make it worth our time to spend years R&D the game.

    Meta players will go after ANY advantage they can get, and to some extent, so will we. It doesn't have to be a million times better, even if its just a less efficient version of AUX blocks that don't explode and use axis trees instead, it would be better.

    I don't have all the answers, but I know one thing, You've made this game far more simple and it doesn't need to be that way for both parties to be happy.

    I hope that this community can at least allow this humble, and well thought out opinion to stay standing, without dragging it down into something its not. This wasn't a rant, this was a heartfelt post, filled with as much detail for one objective only, To show you how much we love starmade, and we want to continue loving it, putting attention to detail in our ships, making them the best they can possibly be.

    Thank you.
     
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    *Proposed solution 1: Aux explosions can be stopped by turning off auxillaries. There would either be a delay in re-activating them, or the affected group would be "disabled" until after a system reboot.

    *Proposed solution 2: Aux reactors start a countdown when hit starting a "meltdown"(so not as to be confused with overheat), that on reaching the end of the countdown, that reactor group would explode with dramatic effect. The method to stop the meltdown should involve the player getting out of the core and interacting with something, whether it be using a repair beam on the core, or an engineer's console, or an aux block in the group. Perhaps logic could be used to trigger an emergency shutdown. This may be overly complicated to figure out which group is the one melting down, so perhaps a meltdown is only triggered if a set percentage of aux blocks was destroyed and the meltdown would affect the aux system as a whole. I personally think mechanics that encourage multiple players on a capital ship is desirable; could be used for new crew systems as well.
    We do have a suggestions section.
     

    nightrune

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    hope that this community can at least allow this humble, and well thought out opinion to stay standing, without dragging it down into something its not. This wasn't a rant, this was a heartfelt post, filled with as much detail for one objective only, To show you how much we love starmade, and we want to continue loving it, putting attention to detail in our ships, making them the best they can possibly be.

    Thank you.
    All the reasons you quoted for not having the new blocks are completely the reason I like the new aux blocks. The simplicity is great. The trade off I think is apparent, and that's awesome. Its nothing against the time all the players spent with it. I think its a great direction and more approachable for more players which is what I want. In the end if you really want to go back to shield injectors and docked reactors just turn it back on in the config. I don't think its good for the base game.
     
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    Howdy folks. Now that the discussion has cooled down somewhat, I'd like to provide some information, and put my two cents in.

    Before we can even do this, we need to research AUX blocks. As some of the devs said, they'd like the playerbase to really give them a good try first, and we agree with that notion :)
    It took the Syndicus's R&D department an hour to figure these new blocks out, so let's take a look at the numbers.


    We've started using the code name "AUX" for these blocks, as it's far easier then the other option :)

    First, Let's look at the scaling of AUX blocks.

    Notice anything? The more astute among you would have noticed that this curve is precisely the same as reactor modules, the only difference being that more blocks are in use. Once you reach the 2 million point, the bonus starts to curve off, and the blocks assume a liner curve.

    Next let's look at the power cap scaling.

    As we can see, the scaling is completely liner, and requires no further investigation. We however, wanted a more detailed look at this curve, just to make sure.


    For some of you, these are just not enough, you'd like to do your own research, and we understand. So we're going to provide the steps we took and the raw numbers.

    First, the raw numbers:



    Now the steps
    First we started off with a scale. In the first spreadsheet, you can see that we went up by fives until we hit 20K, then we went up by tens. This is rather standard for us to do when we're investigating scaling, because it helps us narrow down the range. Once we did that, we went up by 2,4,6,8 and so on, we really got a clean image with that test.

    How we obtained these numbers is rather simple, ingame singleplayer buildstats. We then simply placed the desired amount down, and we then recorded it.

    So, after all that detail, what was the point? Some of you were arguing the merits of the AUX blocks, and others where damming it, (admittedly myself included) These stats give a clear and precise look into how AUX works, and it is now cleaned up the way for the final verdict.

    We, The Syndicus, feel that AUX blocks where the lesser of two evils, either new players get rekt, or we add something that is so simple a five year old could figure it out.

    We tried to help this issue by releasing our generators to the public, and, for the most part, alot of the newer players have been seen using these designs of ours, but removing docked reactors and replacing them with these aux blocks angered alot of the players in my group, mostly because of how long the game has had them, and how much love and attention to detail we've put into them.

    For Example:
    An entire video dedicated to the breakdown of our PSU Series.

    Its not that the AUX Blocks are a bad feature, schine, its that you've destroyed an entire community of dedicated players whom spent all their time tuning and revising generators.

    This community isn't very well known, and it's because this closed group keeps its secrets to itself that it's often almost completely forgotten, but it's one of the most passionate groups I've ever been in. People like myself, Blobfscrazy Maxajax Lionspirit03 alternateCGU and Vehcklox have spent years designing, refining, and researching into new ways to use axis trees, generators, and even general ship shapes.

    I can't possibly name all these players, and I know that there are more out there so I think I speak for everyone in this group when I say generators, axis trees, and all the surrounding features were not as simple as you might think.

    It wasn't as simple as bricks with power supply beams, it was far more complex. First you had to decide if you wanted an overclocked generator, where in you used the cap to go over the limit, or an under clocked generator, which provided less but was more stable. Then you had to make the most efficient power chassis possible.

    Then, you had to decide the format. 9x9 is indeed nice for long ships, but doesn't provide the space something like a square would provide 9x9 is also alot more vulnerable, since they where much longer and thus had a higher chance of being crippled.
    They had benefits though, their trees were often more block efficient, and they were easier to dock, maintain, and replace.

    We even had generators with invisible rails (the carrier stuff) so they wouldn't be blown off. Some of our designs even included a jump drive hooked into the clock which would insta jump out of colliding with the mothership.

    It was all about pros and cons, and each player had his own unique flare. You knew when you where looking at a generator I created, and you knew when you where looking at a maxajax generator.

    This is just a small example of the complexity involved in this, and as I've seen from maxajax, he's gone into much more detail then I will here.

    This complexity has been wiped away with AUX blocks, players are always going to find ways to make it slightly better, but you're never going to see the complexity of generators used on aux blocks.

    We've already been hit hard by the stealth nerf to axis trees, and the rise of checkerboard has seen some roughed feathers but we assumed schine would undoubtedly add some very creative way of making it balanced again, and this is the core problem..

    Things like hollow core and swivel trees were undoubtedly the biggest breakthroughs we've ever had in this department and for them to be completely wiped out is devastating.

    What is even more devastating, and this is what you really need to consider, is that we were given not extra content, no extra challenge when aux blocks where added. They are so simple to figure out, and placement so easy. Simply place down a 21x21x21 cube, and cover it in one layer of armor, place in the least likely position to be hit(Hell, just place them in generator bays, most people put these in the safest location possible), and you're done. (also, on a sidenote, TheGeek007 wishs to make the point that the explosions are really silly, and that they are. Since they never stop, small craft shouldn't use AUX blocks, only titans are "safe" from complete destruction from this slow decay.)

    What needs to take place is this, AUX Blocks must assume the role of providing ample power for those who cannot design reactors, and we must have something to sink our teeth into.

    Give the end game content players something to really chew on.
    Make it worth our time to spend years R&D the game.

    Meta players will go after ANY advantage they can get, and to some extent, so will we. It doesn't have to be a million times better, even if its just a less efficient version of AUX blocks that don't explode and use axis trees instead, it would be better.

    I don't have all the answers, but I know one thing, You've made this game far more simple and it doesn't need to be that way for both parties to be happy.

    I hope that this community can at least allow this humble, and well thought out opinion to stay standing, without dragging it down into something its not. This wasn't a rant, this was a heartfelt post, filled with as much detail for one objective only, To show you how much we love starmade, and we want to continue loving it, putting attention to detail in our ships, making them the best they can possibly be.

    Thank you.
    Tell me what's the best shape for an AUX. Is it cubic, brick shaped, flat, spherical? How much internal armor makes sense? What's the optimal group size, when taking into account that bigger groups have more explosions? Is one layer of outer armor really enough (according to my tests that's not always the case)?
     
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    All the reasons you quoted for not having the new blocks are completely the reason I like the new aux blocks. The simplicity is great. The trade off I think is apparent, and that's awesome. Its nothing against the time all the players spent with it. I think its a great direction and more approachable for more players which is what I want. In the end if you really want to go back to shield injectors and docked reactors just turn it back on in the config. I don't think its good for the base game.
    I'm against going back to what we had, but moving forward, something should be added to fill the hole that was removed with the generators. (Requiring the same complexity and engineering, and providing small bonuses)
    I think AUX blocks are great, but not the end all of the power systems, or for that matter, the rest of the game.
    [doublepost=1473725549,1473725482][/doublepost]
    Tell me what's the best shape for an AUX. Is it cubic, brick shaped, flat, spherical? How much internal armor makes sense? What's the optimal group size, when taking into account that bigger groups have more explosions? Is one layer of outer armor really enough (according to my tests that's not always the case)?
    Its just anything you want, really, and a single layer around each group which seems to stop the explosion.. I have reports of 2 layers being slightly better.
     
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    Lecic

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    its that you've destroyed an entire community of dedicated players whom spent all their time tuning and revising generators.
    his complexity has been wiped away with AUX blocks, players are always going to find ways to make it slightly better, but you're never going to see the complexity of generators used on aux blocks.
    Boohoo. It's an alpha game. Bad alpha features die eventually. Get over it. Go yell at Bobby to turn them back on on GenX if you care that much.

    What is even more devastating, and this is what you really need to consider, is that we were given not extra content, no extra challenge when aux blocks where added. They are so simple to figure out, and placement so easy. Simply place down a 21x21x21 cube, and cover it in one layer of armor, place in the least likely position to be hit(Hell, just place them in generator bays, most people put these in the safest location possible), and you're done. (also, on a sidenote, TheGeek007 wishs to make the point that the explosions are really silly, and that they are. Since they never stop, small craft shouldn't use AUX blocks, only titans are "safe" from complete destruction from this slow decay.)
    This is a DRASTIC oversimplification of the complexities of internal reactor armoring, and you're embarrassing yourself by saying this.
     
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    nightrune

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    I'm against going back to what we had, but moving forward, something should be added to fill the hole that was removed with the generators. (Requiring the same complexity and engineering, and providing small bonuses)
    I think AUX blocks are great, but not the end all of the power systems, or for that matter, the rest of the game.
    [doublepost=1473725549,1473725482][/doublepost]

    Its just anything you want, really, and a single layer around each group which seems to stop the explosion.. I have reports of 2 layers being slightly better.
    Here's the way I see it.

    Basically right now the deepest section of the game is building, and maybe combat. Players keep getting deeper into building while there is no other real game-play right now. So when you take away the depth from one of the aspects of the game it "feels" like we are losing a lot. When in reality that section of the gameplay doesn't really need to be that deep. I'm sure some players would love that, but with fleets, and AI, Crew, and NPC factions, missions, and other gameplay features a standard player won't have the time to get that deep into only one section.

    The deeper the building gets but without the rest of the game its going to feel weirdly off balance in terms of gameplay. Right now we spend a crazy amount of time on building. That's not gonna stay that way, and honestly I don't want it to. I want to build, and explore! and interact! So taking some of the depth out right now before it gets too deep without the rest of the game I believe is a really really good idea.
     
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    Here's the way I see it.

    Basically right now the deepest section of the game is building, and maybe combat. Players keep getting deeper into building while there is no other real game-play right now. So when you take away the depth from one of the aspects of the game it "feels" like we are losing a lot. When in reality that section of the gameplay doesn't really need to be that deep. I'm sure some players would love that, but with fleets, and AI, Crew, and NPC factions, missions, and other gameplay features a standard player won't have the time to get that deep into only one section.

    The deeper the building gets but without the rest of the game its going to feel weirdly off balance in terms of gameplay. Right now we spend a crazy amount of time on building. That's not gonna stay that way, and honestly I don't want it to. I want to build, and explore! and interact! So taking some of the depth out right now before it gets too deep without the rest of the game I believe is a really really good idea.
    That might be the case, but consider this, the less depth starmade has, the closer it comes to other space games. I do not for a moment believe that generators where a good idea, or a good system, I think their complexity and engineering requirements really provided for alot of players, and we're never going to get around building, so why not make it somewhat interesting.
     

    nightrune

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    That might be the case, but consider this, the less depth starmade has, the closer it comes to other space games. I do not for a moment believe that generators where a good idea, or a good system, I think their complexity and engineering requirements really provided for alot of players, and we're never going to get around building, so why not make it somewhat interesting.
    My argument is it isn't the right time to make it more interesting. Since we need the rest of the game first. Less depth here, more depth other places due to the game being extremely shallow in all other areas besides building.
     

    Az14el

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    Its just anything you want, really, and a single layer around each group which seems to stop the explosion.. I have reports of 2 layers being slightly better.
    Reason at last (and I been playing with the 2 layers around it, explosions contained very well, though admittedly it is still a lot of armor & extra volume to spend)

    As far as placing armor instead of power in order to power your ship
    Well, fuck it guys go for your life it's not like I care if you continue to fly comparitively harmless bars of soap.

    Rate "funny" if your a powerbottom and dtf right now ;;;;))))))
     
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    Darkkon

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    My argument is it isn't the right time to make it more interesting. Since we need the rest of the game first. Less depth here, more depth other places due to the game being extremely shallow in all other areas besides building.
    Exactly. We can always add more depth later if it's needed, but we have been stuck on the building aspect of the game for a long time and there are a lot of other features that need to be added in. Preferably before beta so that they can have the test of time.
     
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    My argument is it isn't the right time to make it more interesting. Since we need the rest of the game first. Less depth here, more depth other places due to the game being extremely shallow in all other areas besides building.
    I see your thinking, but ask yourself this, schine did not need to edit this part of the game, they could have left it for now, put depth into something else, and then slowly phased out generators like they did with the old turret system, but they instead decided to remove this part of the game completely, and make no mention of a system down the line to replace it. There is no need to remove the depths, it doesn't make other areas "better" it simply removes items from the game now.
     
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    Well i like the old system we had but the new power systems does lower the lvl of thinking putting into the game. by which the more experience used gens and while having this advantage tells the difference of a new player and a old player. but having the gens also have a advantage over the players that dont use them. im not saying this new power system good nor bad just saying this update attack a huge part of a community that used them. also having other ppl gloat about this update isnt good either.