StarMade University - Official Thread

[Forsyth]

I would ask the following:

1) How much damage is each missile doing?
2) What type of missile (heat-seeking, radar, bomb)?
3) How many approach vectors?
4) What initial range?

Only missile-missile bypasses shields, so other missiles need not be destroyed completely and can be absorbed by shields

 

[Agame3]

You did not understood what missile swarming was.
Imagine 9000 missiles going toward your ship.
Even if each missile is killed in one hit 6 pd turrets will barely change anything (even with magically good can can turrets that kills one missile per shot instead of missing and that also shoots 10 times a second: you will still kill at most 10% of the incoming missiles(in practice less due to misses and to the fact multiple pd turrets might shoot at the same missile)).
Missile swarming is about missile count and not about missile hp else I would not use the term of swarming.
Big ships are much harder to protect from all the directions with pd turrets so they usually need more pd turrets.

Missile swarming = heat seekers. Where a single weapon group launches 10 of those, usually hitting only the launcher's turrets if any or if the launching ship is a single entity, then the closest ship (usually friendly, even if it's behind the launcher and the enemy is right in front of the launcher). Game can not show and probably compute more than 8k cannon projectiles and 2k missiles simultaneously (there are game settings, hard limited to these numbers). But let's just say for the sake of the conversation that the server can compute 9k missiles at once and does not simply exclude 7k and play only 2k, ignoring 700 of your 900 weapon groups just because it is StarMade, so it can.

This means you had at least1800 modules in weapon plus support and for launching only 54 missiles at the same time you also need 4066 missile capacity modules. I guesstimate that since for 2 missiles you need 5 capacity modules and for 54 you need 4k, probably for 100-110 you would need 2 million capacity modules, give or take, since the capacity needed grows exponentially and not linearly. I do not want to think how many capacity modules you may need for 900 weapon groups to work, but anyway congrats for devoting so much material and time just to build this weapon who will definitely try every way possible to shoot your leg before even thinking of another target. But compared to a normal (let's say M-B) missile, the heat-seekers will also have their potential damage divided by 10, so if your target is well armored, they could intend to do less damage than local armor health, resulting in effectively 0 damage where an M-B weapon would have done at least a bit of damage.

So, no, there is no need for the people who build ships large enough to carry some MDs with them to try and stop swarm missiles. They can just invest in some shields and ignore them. (Tested by me situation: Actually a ship having 2MB of shields (8k capacitors with 6k rechargers) is immune against a ship shooting 2 M-B missiles, totaling 1200 weapon modules and 1200 support. The shields simply have enough time to fully recharge between 2 salvos.) So, even if they do not have their damage divided by 10 for being heat-seekers, M-B are pretty useless if your target has 6 times more shield modules than you have weapons. Therefore, it's highly advisable to use at least as many modules in weapons as your target has in shields, to be able to see some progress in the battle in less than one hour. If you insist in using swarms, then double it or more.

Now, if you have 3 times more swarm weapon modules than your target has shields, yes, the target should worry, but the solution would be to just play in its weight class, where this can not happen, not to build even more PDs. PDs are not what they used to be in Pow 1, they are now strong turrets made for dealing with the fact that enemy prefers to shoot as fewer but as stronger missiles per salvo as possible in Pow 2. In Pow 1, people used to go around PDs by having huge numbers of missiles. In Pow 2 people try to defeat PDs by having more damage and thus more health in every missile than the PDs can subtract before their ship gets hit.

 

[Agame3]

I would like to ask a few noob questions about logic...

- How should I use logic to open a blast door on each turret and detach each turret from its foot (4 or 8 turrets) starting from a single inner ship remote I could use on my hotbar while piloting the mothership? I mean, Inner ship remote linked to what, a wireless module? The wireless module can be linked to a logic block in the turret or there must be an intermediary block in the turret foot (the foot is not supposed to detach or do anything)? What blocks should there be at each step, buttons, activators?

- How about also from a ship remote (another ship remote) turning all turrets AI on or off without having to use the entity structure menu? I'd love them to remember their on or off state between re-logs and server restarts, but if they do not, no pb, just tell me how to sinc their AI to the inner ship remote after every such event. (AI on when ship remote is on, AI off when the ship remote is off).

 

[Forsyth]

I would like to ask a few noob questions about logic...

- How should I use logic to open a blast door on each turret and detach each turret from its foot (4 or 8 turrets) starting from a single inner ship remote I could use on my hotbar while piloting the mothership? I mean, Inner ship remote linked to what, a wireless module? The wireless module can be linked to a logic block in the turret or there must be an intermediary block in the turret foot (the foot is not supposed to detach or do anything)? What blocks should there be at each step, buttons, activators?

- How about also from a ship remote (another ship remote) turning all turrets AI on or off without having to use the entity structure menu? I'd love them to remember their on or off state between re-logs and server restarts, but if they do not, no pb, just tell me how to sinc their AI to the inner ship remote after every such event. (AI on when ship remote is on, AI off when the ship remote is off).

Agame, could you elaborate on your first point? Are you trying to set up an automatic detachment mechanism for your turrets or a deployment mechanism for concealed turrets (EDIT: As in this post: https://starmadedock.net/threads/cyberspace-shipyards.28852/post-379656 )?

As to your second point, you could link an inner ship remote to some wireless logic modules (however many as turrets you have, might be good to keep each close to a turret) and connect the wireless logic modules to another one on the turret (whichever half the Bobby AI is on). From there, connect the bobby AI to the wireless logic module (do not select "remote control" in the AI module). You should be able to activate and deactivate the AI on all the turrets from the ship remote and they should remain active if you relog.

 

[Agame3]

Agame, could you elaborate on your first point? Are you trying to set up an automatic detachment mechanism for your turrets or a deployment mechanism for concealed turrets (EDIT: As in this post: https://starmadedock.net/threads/cyberspace-shipyards.28852/post-379656 )?

As to your second point, you could link an inner ship remote to some wireless logic modules (however many as turrets you have, might be good to keep each close to a turret) and connect the wireless logic modules to another one on the turret (whichever half the Bobby AI is on). From there, connect the bobby AI to the wireless logic module (do not select "remote control" in the AI module). You should be able to activate and deactivate the AI on all the turrets from the ship remote and they should remain active if you relog.

OK. My docks are 3 blocks so far, as I did not need to add rotation enhancers on them yet. Foot is core, then immediately under it a docker, and 20 meters above it a turret dock with no blocks in between. Foot docks on the inside of the mothership, just behind a blast door on the ship's hull and the foot's turret dock will be covered inside the turret body, so it's not visible either.

And the turret head is actually the entire turret, looking like a smaller ship flying in formation close to the mothership (inside the mothership shield at all times). It also has a blast door for access to the core and to the turret head's dock. If I could I would also add a reactor inside the turret, with exactly the blocks needed to power the turret's weapons. By this I will make the turret self sufficient and if I can order from mothership by logic the opening of the turret's head door and simultaneously detaching the turret from its foot, then turret will become a 0 thrust 0 shield kind of awkward drone, leaving its foot mounted on mothership.

The difference in PvP is if turrets are clasic, not self-sufficient, one can go straight for the mothership reactor and when mothership starts loosing reactor blocks, turrets become gradually unpowered and the battle comes to an end pretty fast. If turrets are autonomous and the enemy does not suspect this, he will also go for the mothership reactor once mothership looses shields. And when mothership starts loosing reactor blocks, it just detaches the turrets and jump away or dies. The turrets are intact and keep on shooting, having some extra time to finish the enemy that ignored them. For that extra time, for using them as decoys to buy time for the life-saving jump, for visiting an enemy station and detaching turrets so they can camp it while I'm busy doing something else, I guess having the turrets heavier due to having an internal reactor is worth it.

They are not drones because they have 0 or almost 0 thrust and they never dock inside a hangar, not even having a docker on their hull for that. Their only docker is as close to their core as possible, in the center of the turret. They are not classic turrets also, they are my insanity's produced hybrid. And I wanted to know if logic can still detach them like it did in Pow 1.

Since my previous post I experimented and found a sistem like: One inner ship remote in mothership for turrets AI, one for turrets detach. Each one connects to a wireless module on mothership that connects to a corresponding wireless module inside each turret. Inside the turret, one wireless connects straight to its AI, one connects to turret door (Shift-V) and turret docker. So all is needed is 2 wireless modules inside each turret, 2 + 2x turrets number logic blocks in the mothership. Thank you for your kind answer.

PS: You make the final wireless connection in Astronaut mode, then close the turret door by hand when you exit it. When flying the mothership the first press on detach inner ship remote (ON state) just detaches, the second press (OFF state) opens the turret's doors. Default is OFF on inner ship remote for detaching turrets.

 

[Forsyth]

And the turret head is actually the entire turret, looking like a smaller ship flying in formation close to the mothership (inside the mothership shield at all times). It also has a blast door for access to the core and to the turret head's dock. If I could I would also add a reactor inside the turret, with exactly the blocks needed to power the turret's weapons. By this I will make the turret self sufficient and if I can order from mothership by logic the opening of the turret's head door and simultaneously detaching the turret from its foot, then turret will become a 0 thrust 0 shield kind of awkward drone, leaving its foot mounted on mothership.

Not sure if you've encountered this before (I did on accident) but a powered logic module adjacent to the docker (does not have to be connected) will undock that entity. You may find use for that

 

[Forsyth]

===================================================================
Starship Military Branch - Weapons Introduction
===================================================================

Weapons are an integral part of any military vessel, and it is not uncommon for non-combat ships (especially larger ones) to carry defensive turrets. The next few entries will discuss the various weapon types in StarMade and potential combinations. Note that weapon usage will vary by player and there are many different weapon combinations that can be used effectively.

To address some questions that may come up with the later entries, all weapon information was gathered using a 1:1 setup (same number of primary and slaved modules), no effect computers, and one weapon group. The effects of damage type modules will be discussed in a later article, and weapon power usage will increase with the number of groups used. For the missile-cannon weapon combination, each group will fire 11 shots/group. Each tick is 100 milliseconds and beams register damage every 2 ticks (or 200 milliseconds).

ALL INFORMATION FOUND IN TABLES WAS COLLECTED IN-GAME

===================================================================
Return to the Index
===================================================================

 

[Forsyth]

===================================================================
Starship Military Branch - Cannons
===================================================================

Cannons are a relatively versatile weapon capable of providing steady damage at a variety of ranges. They do not suffer the damage bleed-off that beams do, and they are the only weapon capable of destroying missiles. Cannons are most effective against blocks that are not armor (kinetic damage).

Weapon type --> || Stat v	Unslaved	cannon-cannon Rapid-fire cannon	cannon-missile Short-range charged cannon	cannon-beam Sniper artillery cannon
Damage/projectile	13.5	4.1	257.3	200
Block penetration	2	2	5	4
Shot speed (m/s)	6750	6750	6750	6750
Shot range (m)	6000	6000	3000	12000
Reload (ms)	1000	100	3000	10000
Resting Power Consumption	25	50	50	50
Firing Power Consumption	100	200	200	200

As cannons are the only weapons that can destroy missiles, AMS turrets should always use them; cannon-cannon has a quick fire rate that allows for sustained damage on missiles.

Stealth ships can make use of the cannon-missile combination because of the high damage, but the short-range may be a handicap. If this is the case, the cannon-beam combination is a decent alternative.

As far as ship-to-ship weapons go, the cannon-cannon combination is a powerful and versatile combination that can be paired with cannon-beam or cannon-missile for consistent damage. This combination is also effective on turrets in conjunction with other weapons.

===================================================================
Return to the Index
===================================================================

 

[Agame3]

===================================================================
Starship Military Branch - Cannons
===================================================================

Cannon beam has how many milliseconds to reload? Are you sure?

And only if you could, maybe adding a dps value to the table could be cool, to accurately compare charged weapons with other weapons, taking into account the charging time too.
Like, only from your numbers: (Note: For unslaved cannons when compared to other weapon combos, with the same block count and e/s used, you have double the amount of modules so probably double the damage listed)
Unslaved Cannon: 2x13.5 dps = 27dps
Cannon-Cannon: 4.1x10=41dps
Cannon-Missile: 257.3/3=85.8dps
Cannon-Beam(supposing the correct time is 10 seconds, not sure at all): 200/10=20dps
So, for the highest range available, we have the most inept dps (not sure), but close to the best penetration.
At medium range, CC is the better option and at very low range (melee dancing), CM more than doubles the CC damage, also allowing for timed shots while it also has the best penetration available.
I can barely wait to see the accurate numbers for missiles and beams too. (I love missiles more, but that's me. Anyway, we need a good comparison between beams and cannons as they may seem similar except turrets can't aim beams but do aim cannons and beams according to QF documents are better against shields than cannons.)

Thank you a lot for doing this when Wiki is less often updated these days.

PS: Well, turrets can aim beams, they just shoot in front of the target like the beam would take its time to travel to the target, when beams are instantaneous and this means AI shooting beams will alwais shoot in front of its target and never the target itself, as long as the target moves, even if it moves really slow. AI with beams can and will definitely hit stationary targets.

 

[nulitor]

===================================================================
Starship Military Branch - Cannons
===================================================================

Cannons are a relatively versatile weapon capable of providing steady damage at a variety of ranges. They do not suffer the damage bleed-off that beams do, and they are the only weapon capable of destroying missiles. Cannons are most effective against blocks that are not armor (kinetic damage).

Weapon type --> || Stat v	Unslaved	cannon-cannon Rapid-fire cannon	cannon-missile Short-range charged cannon	cannon-beam Sniper artillery cannon
Damage/projectile	13.5	4.1	257.3	200
Block penetration	2	2	5	4
Shot speed (m/s)	6750	6750	6750	6750
Shot range (m)	6000	6000	3000	12000
Reload (ms)	1000	100	3000	10
Resting Power Consumption	25	50	50	50
Firing Power Consumption	100	200	200	200

As cannons are the only weapons that can destroy missiles, AMS turrets should always use them; cannon-cannon has a quick fire rate that allows for sustained damage on missiles.

Stealth ships can make use of the cannon-missile combination because of the high damage, but the short-range may be a handicap. If this is the case, the cannon-beam combination is a decent alternative.

As far as ship-to-ship weapons go, the cannon-cannon combination is a powerful and versatile combination that can be paired with cannon-beam or cannon-missile for consistent damage. This combination is also effective on turrets in conjunction with other weapons.

===================================================================
Return to the Index
===================================================================

you made a small typo: you should have written 10s for the reload of cannon beam or you should have written 10000(since the unit of the line was ms) instead of just writing 10

 

[Forsyth]

you made a small typo: you should have written 10s for the reload of cannon beam or you should have written 10000(since the unit of the line was ms) instead of just writing 10

Thank you for catching that.

And only if you could, maybe adding a dps value to the table could be cool, to accurately compare charged weapons with other weapons, taking into account the charging time too.

I can add dps to the table.

 

[Agame3]

I have a question about thrusters in QF:

If you have a large enough ship that the e/s is not a problem and if you know you will not reach server's max speed anyway, when is the moment when you would consider adding another thruster pointless? When its mass is bigger than its thrust so adding more thrusters actually decrease maximum ship speed (and this value depends of current ship's max speed, of course)? When adding 1k thrusters more increases speed with less than 10 m/s? 1m/s?

I'm pretty sure Wiki formula for thrust diminishing returns is obsolete and not QF. Am I right?

 

[Forsyth]

I have a question about thrusters in QF:

If you have a large enough ship that the e/s is not a problem and if you know you will not reach server's max speed anyway, when is the moment when you would consider adding another thruster pointless? When its mass is bigger than its thrust so adding more thrusters actually decrease maximum ship speed (and this value depends of current ship's max speed, of course)? When adding 1k thrusters more increases speed with less than 10 m/s? 1m/s?

I'll take a look into that and will get back to you as soon as I have an answer

 

[nulitor]

I believe the reason for thruster diminishing returns is to prevent gigantic ships from being as much agile as small ones so that sometimes using a small ship is better.