StarMade Ship Systems 2.0

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    really like how this is looking, for the most part, my only issue is not being able to have multiple reactors on at the same time, this seems counter productive and i cant see as to why you would not allow multiple reactors.
    Allowing only one active reactor doesn't pass the realism/logic test for me; it feels like a rules gimmick. Outside of something like a hybrid car, I can't think of any instance of a vehicle with multiple engines only using one at a time, or at least having the option to do so.
     

    Ithirahad

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    Chambers looks really better than crew. Never liked crew idea anyway - I ll rather boost my ship systems with a solid placed blocks, than with a crew members, which will probably bring lots of boring micromanagement with them. NPC are good for quests/factions/fauna/pilots maybe, but not for ship enhancement, I think.
    Some people enjoy micromanagement, some do not...
     

    Asvarduil

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    For reference:

    It seems that :schema:is trying to describe some kind of alternate form of energy, and not some kind of Auxiliary Slot.

    So here are some suggestions:
    Quantum Ether
    Trans-Mater Flux
    Polaric Residue
    Anti-Proton Flow
    Dimensional Accelerant


    Maybe this should have it's own thread?
    Star Trek has a similar concept in "Electro-Plasma" (for instance, EPS Relays, or 'Electroplasma System' Relays)

    Since he's said before this game takes inspiration from Star Trek, he could call it 'Reactor Plasma'.
     
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    Ithirahad

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    Star Trek has a similar concept in "Electro-Plasma" (for instance, EPS Relays, or 'Electroplasma System' Relays)

    Since he's said before this game takes inspiration from Star Trek, he could call it 'Reactor Plasma'.
    Yes, except an EPS system doesn't have some kind of universal maximum amount of endpoints. Imagine the Enterprise-J-type's EPS network. :P
     
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    Asvarduil

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    Yes, except an EPS system doesn't have some kind of universal maximum amount of endpoints. Imagine the Enterprise-J-type's EPS network. :P
    I refuse. :P Also, I pity the fool who'd attempt to build the Enterprise-J in StarMade on anything less than a supercomputer.
     

    Ithirahad

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    I refuse. :P Also, I pity the fool who'd attempt to build the Enterprise-J in StarMade on anything less than a supercomputer.
    Yeah, but my point is... don't they hook new stuff into the Ent-D's and Voyager's EPS system sometimes? It doesn't seem like there's some kind of limit. If I were building a Star Trek game and I needed a limiting mechanic for adding active modules and devices to your starship, I'd probably call it LCARS Control Channels. A cloaking device would require like 10 separate control channels routed into it (and only the gods know how much power that'd draw from your warp core, too), whereas a phaser refrequencer to deal with Borg and other adapting enemies would only need one as it's just an enhancement to your weapons system.
    [doublepost=1495038492,1495037483][/doublepost]
    I find it funny that they proposed a revamp of our entire power system....And the backlash is almost entirely about a single name of a single, perhaps poorly chosen, design element.
    Always a good sign. :P
     

    Master_Artificer

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    oh hey, I could have a big alpha derp gun on a dinky little plane with just enough power to move about and have shields and prevent the gun from losing charge.

    Now if I could have a block/camera system where I could "control" fighter wings and assign orders too (like world of warships or any other game with fighter aircraft) I can get bombers to deliver hits that are actually meaningful and then return to the carrier after there strafing run to recharge.

    I would probably need 2-3 carriers/(aka mobile charging stations) with dozens of attack craft from each to take out a ship but hey if it is sort of viable then color me impressed.
     
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    Edymnion

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    Ooh, I really like this setup. It finally gives us some more real systems feel to things, what with "have to connect A and B to C via actual piping".
     
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    wtf starmade was the last good game not requiring hours masturbating to get a ship into functional, but with this 2.0 system you'd have to check countless menu for component distances, component sizes, efficiency, point flow, relative sizing, connectivity, skills systems, specializations...


    have you gone MAD?

    I'm counting at least 5 different menus just to get stuff in position and of the right size relative to each other, how has this ever been considered intuitive?
     

    Ithirahad

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    wtf starmade was the last good game not requiring hours masturbating to get a ship into functional, but with this 2.0 system you'd have to check countless menu for component distances, component sizes, efficiency, point flow, relative sizing, connectivity, skills systems, specializations...


    have you gone MAD?

    I'm counting at least 5 different menus just to get stuff in position and of the right size relative to each other, how has this ever been considered intuitive?
    Honestly, it won't take any more time to make this stuff work than checking ratios for weapons and the like.
     

    Edymnion

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    wtf starmade was the last good game not requiring hours masturbating to get a ship into functional, but with this 2.0 system you'd have to check countless menu for component distances, component sizes, efficiency, point flow, relative sizing, connectivity, skills systems, specializations...
    Small ships will still be quick and easy.

    Large complicated ships should be large and complicated.

    No more "Just throw crap down and you're good to go" is a GOOD thing in my book. Require some complexity and problem solving to go into ship design for a change.
     
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    oh hey, I could have a big alpha derp gun on a dinky little plane with just enough power to move about and have shields and prevent the gun from losing charge.

    Now if I could have a block/camera system where I could "control" fighter wings and assign orders too (like world of warships or any other game with fighter aircraft) I can get bombers to deliver hits that are actually meaningful and then return to the carrier after there strafing run to recharge.

    I would probably need 2-3 carriers/(aka mobile charging stations) with dozens of attack craft from each to take out a ship but hey if it is sort of viable then color me impressed.
    Even without control, you still can undock them, let the AI to fire the nukes, and then recall them to rechage. Sounds very interesting, but not very useful in current proposal.
    I considered such one-strike ships design when I were making own proposal months ago - key there was that weapons could use adjustable amounts of power, and more power they use, the more damage they deal, but more heat they produce.

    But going back to current proposal. Here weapons use constant amount of power from their inner storage - so weapons of the same size will have same efficiency. But if we look at fighters and their carriers - fighters will be much smaller, and wouldn't be able to do considerable damage to the ships of the carrier's size - so they won't be any better than turrets of the same size, which do not need to be recalled for recharge since they are already connected to the ship.
     
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    Honestly, it won't take any more time to make this stuff work than checking ratios for weapons and the like.
    but here's the thing, you can just drop a bunch of cannon block and voilat a functioning cannon, no need to go into secondary effects unless you start optimizing. with rooms that are too small to work and the tech point flow whatever that is everything stops making sense and becomes totally arbitrary.

    those reads as the rule of a tabletop game honestly, we have computers ffs there's no need for simple rules that are illogical (room to small don't work?) when there could be complex rule that are instead perfectly intuitive (i.e. current shield diminishing returns)

    I agree power rules where a problem and limited this or that aspect of the game, but this is throwing away a lot of good things (like, place blocks, explore universe) and what gives in return? that you can scan ships and get a weakpoint targeting? woooo
     

    EMC007

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    But does this mean reactors are one of the last things you can place because you won't know how much power you need until you have finished the ship?
     
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    No more "Just throw crap down and you're good to go" is a GOOD thing in my book. Require some complexity and problem solving to go into ship design for a change.
    eh, until can't get into reasonable ship size this game has ZERO content but being a space miner. so going big is where the game begin and until you mine enough to get rich what's the gameplay? parking at asteroid and hold rmb? these system don't exist in a vacuum, building ship should enable to enjoy the complex universe, not being the challenge in itself. sure for competitive play some aspect of complexity are need, but what's in for new players? they get bashed on the head enough with a game that's pure grind for hours until one cheat oneself a million credit or exploit this or that AI weakness if they care enough to google the cloaking system.

    no let's make a game about space and cool ship a quest trough menus to figure out why adding 3 more block to a secondary reactor broke the jump drive.
     

    Ithirahad

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    no let's make a game about space and cool ship a quest trough menus to figure out why adding 3 more block to a secondary reactor broke the jump drive.
    That won't happen.

    but here's the thing, you can just drop a bunch of cannon block and voilat a functioning cannon, no need to go into secondary effects unless you start optimizing. with rooms that are too small to work and the tech point flow whatever that is everything stops making sense and becomes totally arbitrary.

    those reads as the rule of a tabletop game honestly, we have computers ffs there's no need for simple rules that are illogical (room to small don't work?) when there could be complex rule that are instead perfectly intuitive (i.e. current shield diminishing returns)

    I agree power rules where a problem and limited this or that aspect of the game, but this is throwing away a lot of good things (like, place blocks, explore universe) and what gives in return? that you can scan ships and get a weakpoint targeting? woooo
    Huh? If you don't care much about optimization, you can just slap down a reactor, put down a cannon, maybe slap a stabilizer or two somewhere, and then it works. The only added bit is that you might have to link the two with conduits, but even that might be limited to chambers/chamber trees, and weapons might not need that.
     
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    Stop complaining. The actual broken system is purely annoying. Creating energy through a tiny little magical cube, and being forced to be USELESS (in energy side) under some minimal dimensions (caused by the actual "optimal" reactors) is nothing but a good system.
    And yes, there are dudes who love to play tiny ships, so no the game don't begin with larger ships.
    In any case : if you want a big efficient ship, you'll need to deserve it. It's not meant to be easy to design a very good PvP ship. So be nice and give ideas instead of complaining.
     
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    oh and to top it all this game forgets destroyed block unless you save a blueprint and restore it at a shipyard, oh so much fun finding out that single conduit block that got destroyed!

    > It's not meant to be easy to design a very good PvP ship

    sure because once it takes a WEEK to build a good ship people will be filled with joy at participating on PvP servers right? I know those servers, theoretically so much fun but ultimately it takes load of time to grind the necessary resources so everyone just stay docked and prey on the noobs or run at the first shield damage

    unless it's a creative server then what's the point? there are so much better game for doing instanced battles!
     

    Chckn Wildstyle

    Design Head of Cabal Weapons/Technologies (CWT)
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    oh and to top it all this game forgets destroyed block unless you save a blueprint and restore it at a shipyard, oh so much fun finding out that single conduit block that got destroyed!

    > It's not meant to be easy to design a very good PvP ship

    sure because once it takes a WEEK to build a good ship people will be filled with joy at participating on PvP servers right? I know those servers, theoretically so much fun but ultimately it takes load of time to grind the necessary resources so everyone just stay docked and prey on the noobs or run at the first shield damage

    unless it's a creative server then what's the point? there are so much better game for doing instanced battles!
    You seem to be forgetting the most important thing here: The Dock will be integrated into the base game so you will - NOT - have to make ships for your self and can just get blueprints from someone else.

    I very much intend to start cranking out ships once the game is in a state that is conducive to ship production. Some people like to build ships more than fly them, some like both the same, and some just want to fly them. Not everyone in StarMade has to be good at everything like me. People of lower caliber or people who simply don't want to have to build ships will be just fine.

    Also, you don't need chambers dingus, the system will be easier than it has ever been with this proposal.
     
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