StarMade dev update: why spherical planets don't fit in a block world
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I very much appreciate how you rarely straight-up deny certain ideas. Knowing that we might one day see spherical planets as a gimmick is a nice thought.
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Sudden gravity change is bound to happen regardless... expecially on cylinder shape, that would be the most extreme change.
Does it *have* to be directly on faces ? I mean, the example with a sphere and being in the middle of the picture would be ok in a real gameplay scenario... building on those sides would be a pain but the gravity transition would be seamless and we\'d have beautyful spherical planets... hovercrafts would be useful and seamless planetary transport is assured !
I dunno, I just heavily dislike the idea of a planet that has ends... it feels so wrong.
Does it *have* to be directly on faces ? I mean, the example with a sphere and being in the middle of the picture would be ok in a real gameplay scenario... building on those sides would be a pain but the gravity transition would be seamless and we\'d have beautyful spherical planets... hovercrafts would be useful and seamless planetary transport is assured !
I dunno, I just heavily dislike the idea of a planet that has ends... it feels so wrong.
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The circular planets look visually stunning and would add a new dynamic touch to the game. Adding them would make the game more realistic, beautiful, and just more or less awesome. Although it would be resourse intensive to do the gravity right it would make mining on the game better b/c it could hav better ores in the dee planet instead of flying under it and offer deeper more protected bases for players to use.
Hope this gets added in! - Vagetarian
Hope this gets added in! - Vagetarian
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I\'m happy with the discworlds in the current game. If you were to change them I think the 2 discs idea or the first hemisphere idea Pixelboy showed are next best, in that order.
Two-sided discs are fine. One sided-discs are fine. The focus is on space, not the ground. We\'ve got minecraft for the ground.
I\'m no game developer. I just play \'em, not make \'em. However, my gut instinct is go to with simple. Toss all these complicated ideas out the window, all they are, are a bunch more things that can go wrong for a feature that really isn\'t even the game focus.
I\'ll support whatever is implemented, and I appreciate the explanation regarding spherical worlds. My two cents, just keep it simple. Simple doesn\'t equal bad.
I\'m no game developer. I just play \'em, not make \'em. However, my gut instinct is go to with simple. Toss all these complicated ideas out the window, all they are, are a bunch more things that can go wrong for a feature that really isn\'t even the game focus.
I\'ll support whatever is implemented, and I appreciate the explanation regarding spherical worlds. My two cents, just keep it simple. Simple doesn\'t equal bad.
What if you combined the spherical coordinate gimmick trick (to preserve the spherical illusion from space) with the seperate world idea? The image as seen from space would not necessarily need to be updated 100% real-time with the happenings on the planet, but with a delayed visual update cycle depending on performance. Depending on the implmentation of the visual projection in space (actual rendered cubes being warped VS an image generated from some diabolical magic maths), the planet as seen from space could also appear much larger.
That would possibly be the most complicated idea thus far. From space you see a spherical world, but as you get close it loads into a flat world that (could potentially be far larger than current planets) loops on itself like the surface of a sphere. This could be handled similarly to Evochron Mercenary, or have an actual loading screen like Minecraft.
That would possibly be the most complicated idea thus far. From space you see a spherical world, but as you get close it loads into a flat world that (could potentially be far larger than current planets) loops on itself like the surface of a sphere. This could be handled similarly to Evochron Mercenary, or have an actual loading screen like Minecraft.
This to me is the best solution, and actually the easiest to implement.
The loading code exists already in the form of teh sector boundaries.
The image barrier exists already in the form of the current planets atmosphere
Flat world generation is already existing for the current planets and is a really a well known process by now
Maping the entry point and orientation on a spherical object to a flat plane aren\'t such complex maths.
The real difficulty I see is to actually do the looping world, and having the world generation merge seamlesly at the extremities. (think about minecraft maps living trough updates)
Or even doing a fancy trick like a diamond shaped map rather than square. with a larger band at the equator to simulate an actual sphere.
The loading code exists already in the form of teh sector boundaries.
The image barrier exists already in the form of the current planets atmosphere
Flat world generation is already existing for the current planets and is a really a well known process by now
Maping the entry point and orientation on a spherical object to a flat plane aren\'t such complex maths.
The real difficulty I see is to actually do the looping world, and having the world generation merge seamlesly at the extremities. (think about minecraft maps living trough updates)
Or even doing a fancy trick like a diamond shaped map rather than square. with a larger band at the equator to simulate an actual sphere.
What if Schema were to incoporate the wedges into the planets to make them more round shaped? Then have the planet be as spherical as possible with them allowing you to have gravity on the planet from multiple sides, making all of our problems solved. All though i dont think the current chunk like loading system would work as well for a spherical planet.... But you could always find a different way to make the blocks load.
For the corner mined out issue why not just have a special edge case? Something like the gravity from one plane continuing until several blocks into what is clearly the next plane. That particular example would still have some awkward behavior but the only players that would run into it much would be those that specifically knew about it and were attempting to make the game act silly.
I like your idea and I had the same thing in my mind even PLOTZ sphere LOL :D:D what I would like to add for this is that not only we should have gravity centered on block based by coordinate but calculate it by volumetric mass. So for example if we have a planet and mine half of it gravity center will pass to new center based on volumetric mass (each block will have it own mass or density) P.S. this works for ship too so if you make some monster sized ship like a planet made out of reinforced hull it will be so dense and have strong gravity pull that it would start to atract planets to it :D
This could work for asteroids too. Just pre calculate that center of gravity when planet generation is made (it will take longer in performance) and make it as pre calculated constant. And when someone meet that planet, asteroid, ship, thing... and make some changes to it it will recalculate new center after taking shoots, building on it, mining etc. and the bigger thing is the more gravity pull it will have.
Or just stick with the desing as it is 
This is a great game and I\'am looking forward for it and moding when time will come and it will be mature for that If you stick with current model then at least just take two planets and stick them with flat sides so gravity would work two ways :D As for now it is awkward to mine downwards and suddenly drop down to space :D it\'s like what just happened.. i mined down and drop down back to space? LOL :D Keep a good work schema I belive this will be next Minecraft like game just better :D
This is a great game and I\'am looking forward for it and moding when time will come and it will be mature for that If you stick with current model then at least just take two planets and stick them with flat sides so gravity would work two ways :D As for now it is awkward to mine downwards and suddenly drop down to space :D it\'s like what just happened.. i mined down and drop down back to space? LOL :D Keep a good work schema I belive this will be next Minecraft like game just better :DA lot of times modders can come up with a fix for issues that even the orignal creators think is impossible...
Perhaps some other person can figure out a way to make this work!
Perhaps some other person can figure out a way to make this work!
I\'m working on a a series of illustrations show people the problems Schema is talking about (and exciting new ones), since a lot people don\'t seem to be grasping what he\'s saying through text. It might take a few days to finish since I have work.
If you read the blog carefully Schema never say he couldn\'t make any of this happen, his main point was actually that it would take to much time. And I agree with him. Is it really worth it if Schema sinks months into working through the all physics, logic, and visual glitches to create something that will functionally work like a flat planet would anyway? All the while slowing down or putting off development of the entire rest of the game.
Also, not everybody is going to get what they want here. Not everyone wants spherical planets, not everyone wants cube planets, and many people don\'t even care what they get, they just want a better ship building game. So again, is it really worth it for Schema to pour all that time into making a feature when really it\'s something that only a part of the community wants?
If you read the blog carefully Schema never say he couldn\'t make any of this happen, his main point was actually that it would take to much time. And I agree with him. Is it really worth it if Schema sinks months into working through the all physics, logic, and visual glitches to create something that will functionally work like a flat planet would anyway? All the while slowing down or putting off development of the entire rest of the game.
Also, not everybody is going to get what they want here. Not everyone wants spherical planets, not everyone wants cube planets, and many people don\'t even care what they get, they just want a better ship building game. So again, is it really worth it for Schema to pour all that time into making a feature when really it\'s something that only a part of the community wants?
Been play this from the start. Donated/Bought months ago. I knew this was going to be great.
I think your going down the right path with the planets.
My thoughts on the middle line between the sides of the planet (equator line) is to leave 1 to 3 block(s) that have no gravity so as you know you at the middle. That way you can prepare/turn round before carrying on.
Keep up the good/great/wicked/awesome/fantastic work.
Sparkes
I think your going down the right path with the planets.
My thoughts on the middle line between the sides of the planet (equator line) is to leave 1 to 3 block(s) that have no gravity so as you know you at the middle. That way you can prepare/turn round before carrying on.
Keep up the good/great/wicked/awesome/fantastic work.
Sparkes
Some people have suggested using an indestructible core to solve the problem of what happens at the center of a planet. I never really liked the idea but couldn\'t really think of another solution either.
Your idea is great! Here\'s something I came up with to add to it. The no gravity area, I think three blocks tall makes the most sense, could be filled with a new block called Planet Core, that could either look like a really dark type of rock or magma as others have suggested; though it will need to be visually distinct from normal lava.
Planet Core should be hard to destroy, like hardened hull, but not indestructible. This will let players know where the no gravity area is, while also allowing them to dig through it in case they wanted to make a tunnel through the center of the planet. This will also let players destroy planets entirely if they so wish. I know I\'ve wanted too.
Your idea is great! Here\'s something I came up with to add to it. The no gravity area, I think three blocks tall makes the most sense, could be filled with a new block called Planet Core, that could either look like a really dark type of rock or magma as others have suggested; though it will need to be visually distinct from normal lava.
Planet Core should be hard to destroy, like hardened hull, but not indestructible. This will let players know where the no gravity area is, while also allowing them to dig through it in case they wanted to make a tunnel through the center of the planet. This will also let players destroy planets entirely if they so wish. I know I\'ve wanted too.
I\'m assuming calculating gravity to a single point in the middle (thus making every spot on the planet down,) would be too many calculations to reasonably do. I agree with a 6 sided gravitational field, as you round the corner (shaved round or cubed,) you would randomly find that gravity changed. While that\'s true, considering the small size of the planets, wouldn\'t gravity act similarly strange?
Marginal Cost ~ Marginal Benefit. If Schema develops a multi-sided gravitational field the benefit must be greater than or equal to the cost of development. So not only would it take time, but also may not be worth it. :/ It\'s healthy business practice.
As for the middle block issue,
Solution #1: You make the middle block unbreakable, (like shipcores) until the last block.
Solution #2: Block, no block w/e if the planets mass decreases by 75% gravity switches off, taking care of random gravitational changes.
Solution #3: (My favorite) If a derpy player digs to the middle he doesn\'t die, but gravity switches off and he hopelessly floats in space, requiring a suicide. This one is based on the theory that if you dug to the middle of the earth (sans molten core) you would be weightless.
Marginal Cost ~ Marginal Benefit. If Schema develops a multi-sided gravitational field the benefit must be greater than or equal to the cost of development. So not only would it take time, but also may not be worth it. :/ It\'s healthy business practice.
As for the middle block issue,
Solution #1: You make the middle block unbreakable, (like shipcores) until the last block.
Solution #2: Block, no block w/e if the planets mass decreases by 75% gravity switches off, taking care of random gravitational changes.
Solution #3: (My favorite) If a derpy player digs to the middle he doesn\'t die, but gravity switches off and he hopelessly floats in space, requiring a suicide. This one is based on the theory that if you dug to the middle of the earth (sans molten core) you would be weightless.