Star Made Multiplayer Faction Combat tactics

[Krazykat]

Ah, I should\'ve specified I set these methods for when there is a stationary target/objective



But moreso I\'m just trying to concentrate forces so that we don\'t spread out too far. This cube usually doesn\'t apply to flanking forces either, they just have to follow the backdrop axis to the target.

I\'ve never had enough people though to actually set multiple groups and instead just go with squadrons.



BUT in open space combat tends to be moving a lot, rarely are fleets just sitting one sector apart firing missiles like they do in BSGO, now we have to devise strategies to kite the opponent to a weaker position. so it is possible to create a \"tunnel\" of 3x3x? or 5x5x? and force the enemy fleets to move within this tunnel chasing ours, kinda like retreating however we still have flankers and chasers outside the tunnel ensuring no stragglers get out. this could be called the \"pipeline of death\" because if we are moving backwards facing to them firing constantly and their bolts cant catch us it just becomes a matter of time till they are gone.

The backdrop of the tunnel would be behind the enemy fleet, opposite side of ours so that members can peel off the main if they are too damaged to repair or buy a new ship before attempting to return to combat

With the tunnel an enemy fleet will also tend to concentrate like a huge water droplet towards the center, if we can close the gap like a purse seine and surround them then that places us in a huge strategic advantage. However to truly blockade them would require a large amount of dummy vessels and possible laid mine to deter them from breaking out. not to mention more than a few carriers that would need to hold enough fighters to counter theirs.



Just, I love this game so much because of the \"what-if?\" factor. There is freeform and so many possibilities that we could spends hours writing these strategies and new things would always come up.



someone said it before but Ill say it again, this thread is full of so much win

 

[CrackShotCleric]

Ok, first off I want to say I value and encourage all POSITIVE and BENEFICIAL feedback and input. IF it builds up, contributes positively, or advances the discussion, I am more then happy to see it posted here.

That said, I STRONGLY DISCOURAGE anything that does not do the above stated things.

So Mr. Nootau, while I value your input, I do not value your attitude to date. Further more, your questions and points are a waste of time and only make you look foolish, as you points were all addressed in posts #1, #11, #16, and #17.

To all, please read the thread before posting, so you don\'t make fools out of everybody.

I\'m not a jerk, so I am sorry for coming down hard on ya mate...but that was unnecessary, and uncalled for.

Please don\'t take this the wrong way. I\'m not mad, but I don\'t want sour attitudes. I\'m about to post the pics...just making the final edits. Perhaps they might clear some questions you have up.

 

[Krazykat]

Ya, the scenario is different...

however it isn\'t. In Starmade ships that are more than 5 sectors away might as well be considered out of combat since (because conflicts last so short) they would not get to the fight in time to make a difference, you still get a 5x5x? tunnel or cube of combat that matters the most UNLESS you have a considerable force out of the chokepoints.



I understand that all old strategies will have to be reborn, but that doesn\'t mean they have to be lost. ESPECIALLY if they can be still effective. But that is what we are trying to discuss here, how can we learn again by the (absence of) standard rules in this game? What are we doing wrong? what are we doing right? What will possibly be the meta once more and more learn strategic combat and the likes. Hell, even 3v3 can still be intensively strategic if you want it to be.

 

[Arlin.Del'Adre]

Seems to me that a big variable is being lost in the gaming and that is the difference in top speeds. The difference in the topspeed of a small fighter and a flagship should not be the same. If the dynamic vaiable of varying speeds were to be introduced by either degrading topspeeds as ones mass increases or some other means then the possibilities and need for stategy would be greatly needed.



With this ammendment to the game then the normal hit and run technique wouldnt be as effective. For example a flagship could drop in on a much smaller fighter and easily outpower it. however the fighter should be able to dart off to warn his buddys. This ability to actually flee would press the need for strategy when attacking different sized ships.

 

[CrackShotCleric]

O.K.! Glad those are finally over with...took 4 hours almost, not much to show to be honest, but they are done all the same!

So, I will be posting in 3 large posts, each with at least one full senario to be sure everybody can understand.

So here we go!

 

[Krazykat]

Ill make some diagrams tomorrow when I have time

 

[CrackShotCleric]

ALRIGHT! Welcome To FLEET MANEUVERS 101 WITH ME! GUNNERY SARGENT PAIN\'IN T\'NUTT. IF you ever get the BRIGHT IDEA to call me \"SARGENT PAIN IN THE NUTT\" OR ANY OTHER variation of the sort, know that your next year will be spent cleaining and careing for my pressious jewels. AND TRUST ME, HELL IS A BETTER SENTANCE!

That said, I have been told to be in this here class room to Teach this here class, FLEET MANEUVERS 101, BUT FIRST THINGS FIRST!

Commander, In order for you to call maneuvers, YOU need to know where you are going. Because if you don\'t, there is abolutely no chance in the universe you will get anything done; MUCH LESS WIN A FRAKIN CAMPAIN! And to be honest, if you don\'t know where you are going, I can\'t imagine what your troops know... poor sods.

SO, In order to prepare you for your command, the Higher-Ups had them science-y types in R&D cook up this here Tutorial to teach you how to Order your fleet around...better then you already do that is. Right now you just look like a dunce with your thumb up your bunghole.

MOVING ON! I have been given one BASIC Scenario to use through out the course of this here tutorial. \'Cuz again, right now you just look like a dunce with your thumb up your bunghole, and command doesn\'t think you can handle anything more then ONE BASIC SCENARIO!

That said, here it is. With this here photo, you see the placement of your fleet, the enemy fleet, the designated battle area, and a line designating your \"FLEET FORWARD\" which leads to the enemy fleet...the rest is explained in the picture, so I\'m not gonna waste my breath.

Here ya\' go.



I was told to put this picture up after that...so again, here ya go...



I guess I\'ll just keep changing slides...



Uuh...yea



HA! HAH! HAH! This guy\'s a genuine comedic GENIUS! I mean really, Imagine when you\'re standin in the mess line waitin for your food, and the cook asks, \"what\'s up?\" HA! AND Then you tell \'im, \"A RELATIVE NOTION!\" HA! HAH! HAHA! *cough* uuh, yea...MOVIN ON!



*Click*



And Thus Concludes the Segment on how to tell your direction in space...

BUT DON\'T LET KNOWING THIS GET TO YOUR HEAD!!!

You still look like a dunce with your thumb up your bunghole...DIIIISMISSED!

 

[Krazykat]

also, everyone needs to READ starship troopers. Just do it

 

[CrackShotCleric]

ALRIGHT COMMANDER! Last class you learned how to tell your up from your bunghole, WHICH IS STILL INHABITED BY YOUR PRECIOUS DUNCE THUMB!

But WE A\'INT DONE YET!

Today we are going to cover how to use the INFINATELY VALUABLE WISDOM we learned last class to actually move your fleet around in a way that is ACTUALLY UNDERSTANDABLE to the rest of us who dont understand DUNCE-SPEAK!

THAT SAID, I was given another segment of the Tutorial that we are covering in hopes that one day you won\'t be A DUNCE WITH YOUR THUMB UP YOUR BUNGHOLE!

So without further ado, please take your seats for round two of the wonderful picture story from your favorite producers, R&D. just be sure not to sit on your thumb...

*click*



*click*



I guess it\'s a good thing we learned our directions last class, ain\'t it boys and girls?

*click*



*sigh* Those scienc-y types up in R&D just can\'t seem to know when enough is enough...ugh

Well, it looks like that\'s all for the picture show...

Just as a QUICK recap of the course, YOU learned how to tell your LEFT FROM YOUR REAR in space...WAIT NO YOU DIDN\'T! for some odd reason THEY ARE STILL CONNECTED!

So let me rephrase, YOU learned how to tell your RIGHT from your UP in space, and Today, YOU learned how to give BASIC FRAKIN DIRECTIONS!

IN OTHER WORDS, YOU ARE ALL STILL DUNCES WITH YOUR THUMBS UP YOUR BUNGHOLES! see ya next class!

DIIIIISMISSED!

 

[CrackShotCleric]

ALRIGHT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, Welcome to the FINAL segment of FLEET MANEUVERS 101 WITH ME! GUNNERY SARGENT PAIN\'IN T\'NUTT! Over the last TWO classes, YOU learned how to tell your UP from your RIGHT, and HOW TO TELL OTHER PEOPLE YOU ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE, BY GIVING THEM COMPREHENSIBLE ORDERS!

BUT WE AIN\'T DONE YET! The Higher-Ups, for some STRANGE REASON, think you are still a bunch of dunces with your thumbs up your bungholes, and to be honest I AGREE! So I am here to Finish this couse, In hopes you will mature into the COMMANDERS you were born to be, AND NOT THE PRETTY BUTTERFLIES you are so desperate to become!

So today, you will be taught how to combine what you have learned in this here course, with the wierd noodly appendage in your head, to create some AMAZING things...or at least that is what R&D hopes will happen...We currently have a bet going, I bet your paychecks that you will graduate unable to recieve your deploma, because your thumb will still be \"preoccupied\" with exploring your colon...

BUT THAT DOESN\'T STOP ME FROM DOING MY JOB TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITIES! SO! Take your seats and GET READY for the final installment in R&D\'s instructional Trillogy.

as a fore-warning, I don\'t think I was supposed to stop where I did, but I didn\'t want to hurt your poor noodles...so I cut the class short...

MOVING ON!

*Click*



*click*



OOooh, Fancy Sch-mancy! Is it just me or does that look like...never mind.

*Click*



NEXT!

*Click*



*click* *whrrrr*

Huh?

*click* *whrrrr*

wait, is it over?

WELL COMMANDERS! IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ACTUALLY SURVIVED! CONGRADULATIONS!

NOW that you have passed the course, I ask you to take these here deplomas and walk out the door, BUT ONLY after you have washed your hands...AWWW! WHO am I kiddin, I KNEW YA\'LL would make it! I just had to be harsh t\'keep ya motivated! *begins to tear* look, Just go out there, and make me proud...don\'t forget what you learned, and maybe you can comeback sometime and teach me all the stuff you learned while you were out there, winning wars and makin *SOB* Ol\'Gunny Proud!

alright, go on, you passed, DIIISMISSED!

 

[CrackShotCleric]

So it was kinda fun doing that...if ya\'ll are up for it, all discussions can be in regular talk, but we could have it manditory that any posts that used pictures had to be In Character, Drill Sargent to students...just a thought, feel free to comment, like or dislike. But back to the point. That is a basic explination of the consepts on which my strategies are built. The reason that took so long to cook up, is because it is unbelievably simple, and can be used in any situation. With this system, extremely complex fleet maneuvers become wickedly simple to explain and execute. So, lets see what we can make together.

This game is an opportunity. It is the first of it\'s kind, and we will be the pathfinders of this yet-unexplored battleground. In all seriousness, We have the opportunity and privelage to come up with tactics and game strategies NOBODY in HISTORY has had the chance to do. So even though we can\'t put them to large scale usage now, DON\'T miss out on this! Pour your heart into it, because one day you might actually be remembered as one of the founders of this new genera\'s stragegies. Your plans and strategies may yet be the used by hundreds, if not thousands of players. So even if it is way ahead of it\'s usefulness on the servers now, Don\'t forget about the servers of tomorrow.

Just to respond to some of the posts, LaggerCZ, your comment on deploying Turrets to planets as part of a strategy was genius...That is an idea worth looking into. And It is nice to have actual tested stratigies from Villainy and KrazyKat, both of you speaking of \"Death Tunnles\" used to funnle the enemy from trap to trap, and keep them from escaping.

Let\'s see what we can do now.

For Knowladge, For Victory, FOR THE GAME!

CrackShotCleric

 

[CrackShotCleric]

ok, I got pictures, made the explination funny, and actually cooked up someting pretty useful...and nobody responded.

Hopefully it is just because people forgot..

so here goes..BUMP!

 

[Nootau]

I know what you would like to hear but I regret to say I favor pessimism. I would rather have you acknowledge that there are things outside of the sphere of data you, and other wish to pool. The belief that the pool of data and throught are complete is what has caused powered nations at war to fall to lesser armies. I would rather not have this happen. I see this stance is uncalled for and unwanted, so I will bowout and watch from the sidelines to see what tactics others desire and derive and their weaknesses.

 

[Scud]

The Concepts of manouvre and flanking have existed as long as warfare has. Going over them here is wasting breath. What needs to be understood and discussed is fleet doctrine and ship layout as it applies exclusively to StarMade. I\'m going to very quickly make some assumptions here:

Our faction has a limited number of players.
Our faction is playing on a DEFAULT server.(With one caveat, that is, that the server has some way of reducing player income to non-ridiculous levels)

Now I\'m going to lay out some universal \'Laws\' that I think can be agreed on:

-No ship can afford to go below the 50km/h limit. (Anthing less means you cannot kite or manouvre advantageously)

-Hardened armor quickly decreases in usefulness the larger the ships become. (A large ship covered in hardened is both cost ineffective and defensively ineffective, as shields are monumentally more important for large ships due to the square-cube law allowing for large volumes of shield blocks.)

-Missiles are useful in only two circumstances: As Alpha-strike weapons and as armor/hull penetrators. (DPS wise, AMCS blow missiles out of the water, making missiles a much worse choice for use against highly shielded ships, though when the shields go down they are vastly important. Also, more missiles is better than one single for digging in and destroying cores)

-Larger ships lose manouvreability and become more susceptible to enemy flanking and manourves the larger they get (though if they obey Rule #1 they are not \'slower\' per se) and MUST use turrets to make up for their inability to turn and engage more manouvreable enemies. No large ship can afford to be turretless. Turrets are essentially AI escorts.

-Investing in a bigger ship is always a better option than sticking with a small one, as manpower is limited in any faction. This is common sense: A fleet of 5 battleships is going to be better than a fleet of 5 fighters. Until AI ships are introduced, every player in your faction should be operating the largest ship they can for optimum capability, with one exception:

-Cloaking and Jamming a very powerful tools. if your faction DOES run small ships, they must cloak and jam. There is no justification for small ships to allow the enemy time to manouvre and prepare, small ships must use the element of surprise as they are no faster (Rule 1) than their larger counterparts.

-AMCs on larger ships should prioritise range and firing speed above damage, as long as the cannons keep their damage above the threshold of destroying armor in one hit (400 Damage) any damage above 400 is completely wasted DPS, as firing rate is much more effective at raising DPS and range effectively increases your manouvrability. For kiting, high range is a must.

I\'m mulling over some more...

 

[redreb]

when i fought in battles i fought with friends who are big history buffs. so thay studied wwi and wwii ground air and naval tatics aswell as tatics used in the cold war and even as resent as the first gaulf war. so the first thing that everyone dose is protect there big ships with smaller and more expendable ships (simaler to the setup to defend the midway during vietnam). it\'s a close formation and any incomeing mistles are sopted and dealtwith with expendable scouts. invisabulity ships will scout for invisable minefealds or ambushes. when attacking a close formation the first thing that is nessarry is to get everyone looking outward to look in. this can be aclomplished by small fast and menurverable scout and small fiters getting into there formation. thay will be forced to brake up the formation inorder to fire without hitting there own ships. mistles will be usless at this range and with soo many allies around could have deadly consequences. also shotguns and rappid foire guns are ustless at that range and will do more damage to close allies. 15 seconds after the scouts leave for there targets the bombers arive (dumb mistles only and no other wepons) thay half to get close to the big ships and unleash there havic and do as mutch damage as possible. then 10 seconds after the bombers arive the mistle crusers and firggits arive for additional fire power on the scattered unorganised tattered fleet. 5 seconds latter our big cannon the flag ship arrives to finish off any ship too big and too powerful for our prevous attempts and to crush any hopes of victory. resently we have been experimenting with sending suside bombers inplase of the scouts and fiters to disturb the fleet. a cupple things to remmber is to keep a few ships in reserve for those invisable scouts with dumb mistles to keep them from getting away. also everyone must know what there role is and when to go. everything must be orginised into a good attack or the fleet will not be able to properly suppress the enmy with out taking unnessarry cashulties.

 

[Energy]

You guys are funny!

This is just space cubes

 

[Alpha_Squad]

Once engaged with the enemy in a fleet battle how big does the battlefield tend to be and how mobile, mid-battle are the larger ships usually? (e.g. rotational only, some movement along their axis, constantly moving,etc.)



@Scud: I will have to disagree with lowering AMC damage to increase ROF becuase in actuallity it lowers your DPS. While it may work for better hull killers, the moment you lose 1 cannon the distribution resets. So, having your dps higher will allow you to more quickly destroy shields allowing you to start damaging their hull sooner and if you destroy an AMC their distributions reset. This may make lowering fire rate for higher damage a worthwile investment because once you lose a cannon (will mean that you already penetrated their shields) allowing your ship to change into a more anti-hull design and their ship still has plenty of holes.



Aside: AIs have perfect rotating skill, but lack tactics, strategy, and are easily outrun regardless of how fast they can actually accelerate. Furthermore, to be used as an offensive tool will require a player to carry them around and drop them mid-battle. These carriers also tend to be quite vulnerable to due to their size making them easy targets and the fact they have to be moved within 2km or the child ship\'s respective weapon range of an enemy ship. Also carriers will have massive down-time trying to reconnect all of those AI ships again.



Just some food for thought.

 

[Helvictus]

Just commenting here to note that im not sure that I can contribute much on the actual discussion front, but I am glad that there are people here having these sort of discussions. The kind of idea of large scale servers with factions and larger operations happening between them was definitely something that drew me to the multiplayer part of this game.

I\'ve played (and suffered) in EVE and to see the possibility of some kind of its ethos entering starmade can only be a good thing

 

[mitchelltrt]

Sir! Since the sectors are already named in a (x, y, z) fashion, could we not simply read what sector we are in and use +x, -x, +y, -y, +z, and -z, Sir? With this system, the orders could resemble \"BG1 - +x to target, BG2/3 - +/-z to flank, execute,\" Sir!

 

[mitchelltrt]

This is no more space cubes than minecraft is land cubes! minecraft has evolved through the community that has developed around it to be more than the sum of its parts. minecraft in alpha had no more a following than this game does now. so this is not just space cubes! this is Minecraft in Space! - Commodore Cubey (\"Space, Space, Wanna go in space\" - Space Core)