Solutons to discourage gigantism?

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    Apart from the ongoing discussion about encouraging the building of smaller ships alongside large ships, I would very much like to see possibilities to discourage the building of overly large ships altogether. I find that ships comprising millions of blocks shouldn't exist at all, or at least have certain drawbacks that would make them only marginally useful.

    For starters, I would welcome an option in the server.cfg that would enable administrators to set a maximum allowed size for ships.

    Then there's also a peculiar problem of realism: In Real Life, a huge ship would have difficulties getting rid of all the heat that it generates. Space may be cold, but vacuum is a perfect insulator, so heat cannot be dissipated by convection, and it remains trapped inside the ship. Smaller ships have a larger surface-to-volume ratio, so they can get rid of heat by radiating it into space. But huge ships - even with all systems turned off - would keep accumulating heat until all its crew are cooked alive. Passive radiators wouldn't work in space, because in the absence of air, they would just radiate enough heat right back to the ship to cancel out whatever good they do.
    The only solution would be active cooling, similar to how a refrigerator works, or maybe by some exotic future technology that hasn't been invented yet. As such a system would doubtlessly require energy to function, the whole thing could be simulated in a simple way by imposing a power generation penalty, proportional to the ship's mass.
    That, together with the already existing soft cap for power generators, could perhaps put a limit to gigantism.

    Are there any others who would like to see gigantism stopped, or am I just crazy? And does anyone have any other ideas?
     

    Keptick

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    No. This isn't real life, big well constructed ships are awesome and are usually much more impressive than small ships. Gigantism isn't actually a thing. In fact, I very rarely (if ever) see game crippling ships on servers and when I do they're too fat for their own good (planets rotate faster than they do). A sufficiently sized swarm of AI fighters will completely obliterate any sized ship, no matter how strong the thing is. Gigantism is only a problem if you want it to be.
     
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    AtraUnam

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    I haven't seen a giant server crashing ship in a long time. I don't understand all these people who think that a tiny fighter should be able to take on a dreadnought. Sure big ships are far more powerful than small ships (and they should be) but that won't be a problem when we have an economy where getting big ships is actually difficult. In the mean time if my ship is so big that someone else can fit their entire ship in my gun barrel then when I fire, anything less than their complete destruction just wouldn't make sense.
     
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    My personal problem with big ships is that they're not fun to play with. When I started playing, I had a small ship, not much bigger than an Isanth. The dogfighting was incredibly fun.
    Then I built a 24k-block ship. It was so unmaneuverable that I could no longer fight pirates myself. I had to stud it with turrets and sit back, passively watching them as they did all the work for me. Sure, building a big ship is fun, but once it's built, there's nothing fun you can actually do with it. I miss the old dogfighting days.
    At least, playing in single player, I can hop into my fighter any time and tangle with those pirates. But on a server, dogfighting other players doesn't seem to be an option.
     

    Zyrr

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    Sure, building a big ship is fun, but once it's built, there's nothing fun you can actually do with it.
    This may well be the blanket statement of the century.

    I'm not sure where you're getting your information but there is plenty of things to do with big ships. If you're expecting to tango with 10 mass fighters in a 24k block ship you are severely mistaken.

    Moreso, just because you can't enjoy larger ships doesn't mean others don't.


    Finally, I'm not entirely sure if you're up to date with servers or not, but the huge ships of September 2013 don't exist anymore. Factions don't build many ships more than 500m long and rarely field ships larger than 350m en masse.
     
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    *sigh*
    This is one of the topics that has been discussed ad nauseam.

    Ok let's get started with this thread. First off your realism argument becomes meaningless cause it can't be compaired or applied with anything current day. Ships have a certain size these days cause of limits not yet overcome or just because they don't need to be bigger. Who knows that at some point humanity doesn't build ships so big that it might pull planets out of orbit?

    Besides space is empty like you said, so you can dump endless amounts of heat into it by radiating it. Even if that energy tries to get back into the ship through the hull we would still talk about x meters of space-age super metal/polymeres that might not even absorb heat at all or convert it to energy for the ship. I could continue with this for a while but it would just be beating the dead horse.



    The game only offers you atm building stuff. So by evolution and facts the larger an object becomes the more detail it can have, what means more buildtime, nicer ships, more wow-effect, ... the stuff people like and get impressed by. Doing combat in this game is imo a waist of time as the game still lacks any reason as to why and hopefully gets adressed in the future.
     
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    "Baww why can't my tiny fighter that I spent 20 minutes on take out someone's cruiser that they spent a month on ;_;" - every "big ship critic" ever

    If you don't like big ships, don't use them. It's really that simple.
    There are plenty of servers that have a max size limit if that's your thing
     
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    Criss

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    I for one am all for large ships. I have some of the largest ship models in my single player save. Possibly the largest ones that have ever been smedited in. Large ships are for a different type of fighting. While a fighter should not be able to take on a large ship, it shouldn't be killed by one either. The massive guns are not meant to shoot what is considered a speck in space, but instead other large ships. You didn't have fun fighting pirates because pirates are small and you're using a massive ship to try and accurately hit a faster target.
     

    Ithirahad

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    "Baww why can't my tiny fighter that I spent 20 minutes on take out someone's cruiser that they spent a month on ;_;" - every "big ship critic" ever

    If you don't like big ships, don't use them.
    ...And get obliterated the second someone decides they don't like me? No thanks.
     
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    ...And get obliterated the second someone decides they don't like me? No thanks.
    Things you can do to fight big ships:
    -build a big ship as well
    -build a slightly smaller but better optimized ship to fight them
    -put turrets on your homebase
    -go out in the middle of nowhere where nobody will find you (really easy with jump drive nowadays)
    -don't pick fights with large/agressive factions
    -form alliances
    -be a half-decent pilot

    There is no reason to put "no fun allowed" restrictions on the game just because you can't handle a bit of pvp

    *Edit*
    Or join a non-pvp server like mushroom fleet

    If fighter combat is your thing then why not do that thunderdome tourney or something?
     
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    Zyrr

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    Things you can do to fight big ships:
    -build a big ship as well
    -build a slightly smaller but better optimized ship to fight them
    -put turrets on your homebase
    -go out in the middle of nowhere where nobody will find you (really easy with jump drive nowadays)
    -don't pick fights with large/agressive factions
    -form alliances
    -be a half-decent pilot

    There is no reason to put "no fun allowed" restrictions on the game just because you can't handle a bit of pvp
    rekt ☑ not rekt ☐
     
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    You know once you start building ships bigger than 500 meters long you start having power problems. I tried building a ship 901 meters long. It is a terrible power hog, will never be able to maneuver to target smaller ships, and turrets won't engage a target until it gets within 1000 meters.
    So unless this ship has backup it is a sitting duck.
     

    therimmer96

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    Baww why can't my tiny fighter that I spent 20 minutes on take out someone's cruiser that they spent a month on ;_;" - every "big ship critic" eve
    This so much

    If someone spends months and potentially a year working on a ship, do you really think they don't deserve a ship that you know... wins? Yes, fighters need to be worthwhile, but they should be more for picking off a ships anti-missile turrets and taking out small weak points rather than expecting them to take down a capital ship.
     

    Keptick

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    Star wars was a joke, don't take it as an example.
    Yes, the engineers of the emperor were f*cking idiots to make such a glaring weak spot... TWICE.
     

    Ithirahad

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    Things you can do to fight big ships:
    -build a big ship as well
    This defeats the purpose entirely, but yes, I suppose it's the only good option.
    -build a slightly smaller but better optimized ship to fight them
    Slightly smaller usually still means "pretty damn huge."
    -put turrets on your homebase
    Good point, but home bases will be balanced eventually. They won't always be "YAY FREE INVINCIBILITY FOR ALLLL!"
    -go out in the middle of nowhere where nobody will find you (really easy with jump drive nowadays)
    Yes, but where's the fun in that?
    -don't pick fights with large/agressive factions
    Well, that's never smart. But what if it's not me picking the fight?
    -form alliances
    Not always applicable, or possible. Plus, just being in an alliance doesn't directly help much.
    -be a half-decent pilot
    Half-decent piloting doesn't prevent 200x100x100 box seeker turret spam from taking you out. Just saying.


    ...That said, however, I dislike the artificial-feeling nerfs a lot of people suggest for large ships. Instead, I'd just rather see some weapons that are better optimized for small ships to disable (NOT destroy, but disable) larger ships.

    Also keep in mind that my standard ship is 349 meters long, and an organic-looking ship - not a "small" ship by any means whatsoever, and it took half an age to finish. I'm not a huge fan of flying smaller ships, to be honest... But I would like to see those who are fans of smaller ships able to fly them and be reasonably competitive, or at least have a place in any attack fleet. Currently, why fly a fighter if you can fly a battleship that has turrets which each have the same firepower and turning/targeting ability as a single fighter, with none of the risk of flying a fighter? Especially if said turrets don't need space for power generation or thrust, giving them more offensive and/or defensive potential as well?
     
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    When you dont like big Ships dont build or fly them.
    I like to fly small fighters. but i also like to fly a Gigantic Battleship.
    And the fact is, right now a small fleet of Fighters with good Pilots will destroy every Battleship
    because theyre too immobile. And a Battleship without Turrets is nothing more than a bunch of useless Blocks.

    Some weeks ago we had a fight with our small Fighter fleet none of em larger than 50Blocks in any direction with 4 Guys.
    Against a Battleship with two guys sitting in. That was an epic fight.
    And guess hoo won.

    Its not the size that Matters. ^^
     

    jayman38

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    I would like to see heat simulated in the game. Maybe not in the default game. Maybe, if the API hooks run deep enough, someone could mod in heat build-up and radiation. Then the OP and other heat-related suggestions could be implemented on anybody's server who wants more realism.