Ship Max Speed Determined by Mass

[Mariux]

Someone needs to build their 6k mass ship better......

Shots fired.
Or, someone needs to build his fighters better. Probably the latter.

 

[Winterhome]

Someone needs to build their 6k mass ship better......

Hey, that ship's got no trouble taking down 12k mass ships on its own.

The turrets you can place on a ship that small aren't numerous or big enough to effectively kill that many drones, and the main guns can't get a good bead on that many drones.

The drones took 60% losses though.

 

[Lidren]

While I like the idea, I am waiting for the thrust changes that Calibri has outlined and were discussed. I'm pretty sure they'll add more variance in speed capability without going too hard in favor of any particular size class.

 

[Keptick]

Sounds more like an issue with people being unable to fly properly than a game problem tbh. Max speed is practically never reached during combat, so it wouldn't really make a difference.

I took the manifesto term from Yetimania btw :p
[DOUBLEPOST=1418325551,1418325203][/DOUBLEPOST]

Yep. I've read his findings and can appreciate them as fact.

Someone needs to build their 6k mass ship better......

Unless it's ze ultimate drone killer it won't win.

 

[Mered4]

Sounds more like an issue with people being unable to fly properly than a game problem tbh. Max speed is practically never reached during combat, so it wouldn't really make a difference.

I took the manifesto term from Yetimania btw :p
[DOUBLEPOST=1418325551,1418325203][/DOUBLEPOST]
Unless it's ze ultimate drone killer it won't win.

hm. I should go back to the drawing board regarding drones.

Regardless, people will always be dumb. There will always be 'that guy.' This change would support mixed fleet compositions - including support craft.

 

[Ciggofwar]

Capital sized ships turn like crap, with or with thrust being applied, like it is a separate factor of some sort, I don't care if I can not go max server speed who gives a crap that's what warp drive is good for, the turning rate factor is completely out of sync with the game of thruster dynamic's, at a given speed I should have my optimal turning efficiency, which would be my combat speed, faster or slower than that range of speed it reduces the pitch of the turning similar to a boat in the water. The rolling pitch should also be applied to the same mechanic, I roll my titan unrealistic to it's ability to turn and being able to stop the roll effect would nice as well, there some fuzzy mechanics sitting still and turning and your vessel stats roll pitching, pressing C should just level the ship where it sits rather than the entire ship having to turn and face a peculiar unwanted desirable direction I am waiting for the thrust changes that Calibri has outlined as well so that mass, size and thrust % applied will delivery some function back to game play ability, even if I have to re-gut my ship to turn the outputs of the thruster's to face for the % of applied thrust for the desired turning effect and feel while driving my cruiser, I'd be all over that!!!

 

[Mered4]

Capital sized ships turn like crap, with or with thrust being applied, like it is a separate factor of some sort, I don't care if I can not go max server speed who gives a crap that's what warp drive is good for, the turning rate factor is completely out of sync with the game of thruster dynamic's, at a given speed I should have my optimal turning efficiency, which would be my combat speed, faster or slower than that range of speed it reduces the pitch of the turning similar to a boat in the water. The rolling pitch should also be applied to the same mechanic, I roll my titan unrealistic to it's ability to turn and being able to stop the roll effect would nice as well, there some fuzzy mechanics sitting still and turning and your vessel stats roll pitching, pressing C should just level the ship where it sits rather than the entire ship having to turn and face a peculiar unwanted desirable direction I am waiting for the thrust changes that Calibri has outlined as well so that mass, size and thrust % applied will delivery some function back to game play ability, even if I have to re-gut my ship to turn the outputs of the thruster's to face for the % of applied thrust for the desired turning effect and feel while driving my cruiser, I'd be all over that!!!

Regarding the turning problem - cap ships will always have that disadvantage. What needs to change (so as to help discourage doomcubes) is to have turning speed based on mass primarily, which I believe they were working on at some point.

 

[Malacodor]

We have:
- Diminishing returns for thrust
- Limited energy production bonus (modular reactors were nerfed into oblivion)
- Crappy turn rates for big ships
- Crafting based economy
- Drone swarms being able to easily destroy single big ships with the same mass
As I see it titans were already clubbed to death with the nerf bat. The best thing you can do with them is either refit them as drone carriers or dismantle them and use the blocks to build drones.

 

[Ciggofwar]

Doom cube should not be only based on mass alone, as other larger ships that have design and structure to them as a theme ship may also fall under same mass gets nailed for doom cube status, for instance if I have a ship that has triple hull construction in layer's that could apply to the effects of gribble for design pattern will suffer for being in the same mass, you nay not want to pvp with but just cruise around RP-ing or visiting others with it. There should be some other factor to discourage griefing associated with the doom cube in its x,y,z + mass plus. Again it not necessary the Cube that does the giefing but the player behind it, as it could be apart of a themed RP ship part of a collection. There player's that fly invisible ships with disintegrator's launchers that kill other player's in there station, that's supposedly invulnerable that go around and continue this type abuse as "gameplay" on a daily basis, should we punish invisible ships? I think it would be better to nail the griefing retard who's soul purpose to exploit the bug's in game with sort of suitable punishment of an exploding ship upon entry!! or being warp out really far from every one every time they get close, it warps them back out again.

 

[Mered4]

Doom cube should not be only based on mass alone, as other larger ships that have design and structure to them as a theme ship may also fall under same mass gets nailed for doom cube status, for instance if I have a ship that has triple hull construction in layer's that could apply to the effects of gribble for design pattern will suffer for being in the same mass, you nay not want to pvp with but just cruise around RP-ing or visiting others with it. There should be some other factor to discourage griefing associated with the doom cube in its x,y,z + mass plus. Again it not necessary the Cube that does the giefing but the player behind it, as it could be apart of a themed RP ship part of a collection. There player's that fly invisible ships with disintegrator's launchers that kill other player's in there station, that's supposedly invulnerable that go around and continue this type abuse as "gameplay" on a daily basis, should we punish invisible ships? I think it would be better to nail the griefing retard who's soul purpose to exploit the bug's in game with sort of suitable punishment of an exploding ship upon entry!! or being warp out really far from every one every time they get close, it warps them back out again.

The mass change would only hurt doomcubes in PvP. If you decide to add extra hull as decoration, that's your prerogative - just realize it will slow you down MARGINALLY.

Basing turn rates on mass keeps ships in the same weight class relatively even in terms of turning speed. It will be better than the current system.

 

[Winterhome]

The mass change would only hurt doomcubes in PvP. If you decide to add extra hull as decoration, that's your prerogative - just realize it will slow you down MARGINALLY.

Basing turn rates on mass keeps ships in the same weight class relatively even in terms of turning speed. It will be better than the current system.

Not a fan of the mass-based turning thing.

If anything, a ship with longer dimensions and thrusters placed further from the center of mass should be faster at turning.

 

[Snk]

A better solution to this would probably be to make it so your turning speed is determined by the location of your thrusters. Dynamic thrusting, anyone?

It's space. I don't like the idea of limiting top speeds due to mass. While I'm mainly the anti ship building, anti "I should kill everything because I put more effort into my ship philosophy" guy, sometimes it does have merit. Dynamic thrusting is the way to go if you want to limit ugly ships.

 

[refirendum]

more interested in an inverse system where max speed and accel on a large ship are more dramatically limited but warping/jump abilities is enhanced over small ships. A system where warp distance is longer for larger ships vs smaller ships, incentive-izing large ships for travel, raw firepower, and more static positions with small ships favored for faster moving flight envelope and less firepower with more versatality over the large ship's lumbering (though menacingly imposing) clumsiness.

 

[jayman38]

Not a fan of the mass-based turning thing.

If anything, a ship with longer dimensions and thrusters placed further from the center of mass should be faster at turning.

Currently, the position of thrusters does not affect their use in ship maneuverability.

I think you are misinterpreting the effect of mass-based turning. Allow me to illustrate:

Ship 1: x: 5, y: 3, mass: 1.5
#####
#####
#####

Ship 2: x: 7, y: 5 (bigger), mass: 1.1 (lighter)
#
#
#######
#
#

Dimension based turning: ship 1 turns faster than ship 2 (current StarMade)
Mass based turning: ship 2 turns faster than ship 1 (closer to known physics)

 

[jorgekorke]

Titans are currently invincible. One does only kill with it with a bigger titan - teaming up two smaller cruisers won't work. If a drone swarm really took out a 6k mass vessel, I assume this one lacked AA turrets, even more on EE, where the turret accuracy is better then Vanilla.

Not sure how to disencourage gigantism, but this must stop somehow. The most common scene in Starmade warfare is someone warping their 1mil mass titan into a fight and then winning a battle by "W.O.", because half of the enemies had their clients crashed/had 0 FPS.

Today there is no better ships. There is only bigger ships.

 

[Drakkart]

The restrictions on Titans are srong enough to encourage players building smaller but well designed ships. Looking at the physics i would agree a titan should need longer to accelerate but titan or fighter both should reach the speed of light (aka max server speed) somewhen.
with dimishing returns on thrusters i think this should work out really well.

 

[Ithirahad]

Ehhhh, no thanks. I hate people flying massive titans in combat as fast as fighters, but for travel and other reasons (not pissing people like Keptick off being one of them) I'd rather not. One possibility is to borrow an idea from, of all things, Star Trek Online, and give all ships a fairly fast travel speed, but make large ships substantially slower in combat - perhaps raising your shields (which should be a thing) slows your max speed a certain amount depending on how many shield blocks you have.

 

[Malacodor]

Ehhhh, no thanks. I hate people flying massive titans in combat as fast as fighters

Why?

 

[Mered4]

Why?

You know those Marvel Air Carriers they've used in their movies?

Imagine one of those moving at supersonic speeds and accelerating/decelerating as fast as an unmanned F22.

That's the problem we have. WTF.

It's also incredibly OP. FYI.

 

[Ithirahad]

You know those Marvel Air Carriers they've used in their movies?

Imagine one of those moving at supersonic speeds and accelerating/decelerating as fast as an unmanned F22.

That's the problem we have. WTF.

Invalid argument; no air resistance in space. Regardless, it just looks ridiculous, space or not, for massive dreadnoughts and titans to be regularly and easily matching the speed of small fighters and drones in combat scenarios.