Read by Schine Semi-vague Lua Computer Suggestion

[therimmer96]

I think AndyP would have something to say about this. I am not sure where our stance is on lua scripting and whatnot as I have heard it confirmed and denied from team members. I will archive the suggestion, but I have no clear answer to give myself.

Part of the game (the trade NPC's script and the math for the ship stats thing) are in Lua, so there is already some kind of interpreter in the game

 

[Criss]

Part of the game (the trade NPC's script and the math for the ship stats thing) are in Lua, so there is already some kind of interpreter in the game

Yes, yet outside of that I have heard (internally) that we had no other plans so I am uncertain right now.

 

[therimmer96]

Logic and signs is nice and all, but I'd still love proper LUA based computers :D

Take what we can do with logic now, now imagine it really cool, fast and small... pls...

 

[Winterhome]

schine giv pls

We need fancy compact logic at some point. Right now, anything visually pleasing is effectively limited to very large ships with space for the computer.

 

[Raisinbat]

Logic and signs is nice and all, but I'd still love proper LUA based computers :D

Take what we can do with logic now, now imagine it really cool, fast and small... pls...

Why dont you go to space engineers then? programmable blocks with their own programming language where a single block can do everything! It's so great NOBODY FUCKING USES IT BECAUSE THE SHIT REQUIRES PROGRAMMING EXPERIENCE THAT 99% OF PEOPLE CAN'T FUCKING USE.

Accessibility is fucking important, not to mention that some of us prefer not to spend hours writing code in a shitty text window instead of building actual stuff.

schine giv pls

We need fancy compact logic at some point. Right now, anything visually pleasing is effectively limited to very large ships with space for the computer.

No, no we don't. You don't need a simulated CPU or RP airlock on every little god damn thing.

Starmade has the cleanest, easiest to use logic system in any voxel game as far as im aware, any noob can learn to do basic stuff like logic weapons and basic doors in 5 minutes, shit i still don't know how to do in spezgineers, and you want to throw that away because you don't have enough internal space for your interior decorating fetish???

 

[therimmer96]

wooo wee lad...

Why dont you go to space engineers then? programmable blocks with their own programming language where a single block can do everything! It's so great NOBODY FUCKING USES IT BECAUSE THE SHIT REQUIRES PROGRAMMING EXPERIENCE THAT 99% OF PEOPLE CAN'T FUCKING USE.

It's so great that lots of builds use the well written programs in that game?

Lua is a fairly simple language that has been used for stuff liek this for ages, look at ComputerCraft for minecraft. It's a simple language with a low barrier to entry.

Accessibility is fucking important, not to mention that some of us prefer not to spend hours writing code in a shitty text window instead of building actual stuff.

I didn't say that logic should be replaced. I love the logic system, but it's not perfect. A system like this one would enhance what people can do with it.

Starmade has the cleanest, easiest to use logic system in any voxel game as far as im aware, any noob can learn to do basic stuff like logic weapons and basic doors in 5 minutes, shit i still don't know how to do in spezgineers, and you want to throw that away because you don't have enough internal space for your interior decorating fetish???

Nope. I don't want to throw anything away. As I said, the current logic is great, but it has room for expansion. Wireless communication is one area it sucks in, and this would help with.

Take this for example, in the current system, if I want it so that you require a code to open a hangar bay door, you'd have to get out of the ship, fly over to a massive panel and type that code in, or you could link up several wireless logic blocks and type the code in on the ships own massive panel. But that still results in you having to leave the ship.

This suggestion would allow a system where the ships pilot would be able to enter the command into a single block computer and the command would be transmitted to the other party. No linking, no EVA. That's accessible.

No, no we don't. You don't need a simulated CPU or RP airlock on every little god damn thing.

No, but to get a readout of ships systems in worldspace rather than the HUD, you have to through this

All for this...

Schine are adding command chairs in the future, meaning we're gonna need displays like that. We can't afford to have that on every ship, heck, most people won't be able to fit that in there ships...

I also wish to point out that RP airlocks is a fairly simple thing and that we don't need computers to do those.

Also, stop being such a ragey cunt, it makes it hard to take your opinion as valid

 

[GalactusX]

Why dont you go to space engineers then? programmable blocks with their own programming language where a single block can do everything! It's so great NOBODY FUCKING USES IT BECAUSE THE SHIT REQUIRES PROGRAMMING EXPERIENCE THAT 99% OF PEOPLE CAN'T FUCKING USE.

Accessibility is fucking important, not to mention that some of us prefer not to spend hours writing code in a shitty text window instead of building actual stuff.

No, no we don't. You don't need a simulated CPU or RP airlock on every little god damn thing.

Starmade has the cleanest, easiest to use logic system in any voxel game as far as im aware, any noob can learn to do basic stuff like logic weapons and basic doors in 5 minutes, shit i still don't know how to do in spezgineers, and you want to throw that away because you don't have enough internal space for your interior decorating fetish???

Say Things like "that 99% of people will not use it. And another to say that only those who know how to program will do it" is not correct at all ...

I started to learn the programming languages knowing nothing (self-taught), and was to see what others could achieve what motivates me to want to learn ... if you say that 99% will not use something, it is because they do not know Or there is no precedent for something already developed.

An example is the "chain drivers", I remember that a person put the concept and idea, and then everyone, or at least 80% of people know how it work and how to do it, the same would happen if you use some type of programming in starmade, The first month only a few knew what to do and how, and later the vast majority knew they could do certain things.

Say that 99% could not do it, it would be because that 1% would not want to share what they know, and that in the starmade community does not happen.

 

[lupoCani]

I would also like to point out that, in real life, 99% of people are also not programming anything. That hasn't stopped computers from dominating society.

If good publishing, sharing and verifying mechanisms are implemented, the 1% that does write code will be able to make the game easier in every conceivable way for those who don't. I'd be happy to write a generalized master control system for ships, and put it up for public download, or a full automation of factories, or a centralized fleet management system with patrol routes, automated reinforcements and use of warp gates.

 

[kiddan]

Plus, someone could even write their own OSs for the computers. Or a custom visual scripter. So the possibilities are really quite extensive.

 

[Raisinbat]

I didn't say that logic should be replaced. I love the logic system, but it's not perfect. A system like this one would enhance what people can do with it.

You can't put two competing systems into a game where one of them is defacto superior, which computers are to logic, the inferior one wont see use.

No, but to get a readout of ships systems in worldspace rather than the HUD, you have to through this

All for this...

YOU. DON'T. NEED. THIS.

I mean that is one cool as fuck display, but you don't need this.

Why dont you make a request for adding graphs to display blocks instead if this is so important?

I would also like to point out that, in real life, 99% of people are also not programming anything. That hasn't stopped computers from dominating society.

Whats the point of this? Only 1% of people should be able to build in starmade, and that's okay? And i thought i was elitist...

If good publishing, sharing and verifying mechanisms are implemented, the 1% that does write code will be able to make the game easier in every conceivable way for those who don't. I'd be happy to write a generalized master control system for ships, and put it up for public download, or a full automation of factories, or a centralized fleet management system with patrol routes, automated reinforcements and use of warp gates.

THEN WHY ISN'T THIS HAPPENING IN THE OTHER GAMES THAT IMPLEMENTED THIS??? WHERE ARE THESE FEATURES FOR SPACE ENGINEERS AND COMPUTERCRAFT??? The only scrip for space engineers i've seen with any kind of adoption is Steam Workshop :: Solar Panel Alignment Script [BROKEN] and of about 1000 machines made in that game only ONE made any kind of extensive logic use. That one machine was hella cool, but the other ships used extremely little if any logic, either sticking to simple displays or maybe a blinking light, because anything involving moving parts or inventory control, easy and straightforward to do in starmade, requires a fucking college education.

Could it be that maybe people want to have fun in a game instead of bothering with overly obtuse bullshit?

Plus, someone could even write their own OSs for the computers. Or a custom visual scripter. So the possibilities are really quite extensive.

This is what its about, isn't it? You're a code fetishist and this is the endgame.

I started to learn the programming languages knowing nothing (self-taught), and was to see what others could achieve what motivates me to want to learn ... if you say that 99% will not use something, it is because they do not know Or there is no precedent for something already developed.

IT'S ALREADY HERE!!! It's already been done, and noone is using it! Why do you think a game with a fraction of the population that doesn't emphasize complex machines in the way space engineers does is going to have more success with it???

An example is the "chain drivers", I remember that a person put the concept and idea, and then everyone, or at least 80% of people know how it work and how to do it, the same would happen if you use some type of programming in starmade, The first month only a few knew what to do and how, and later the vast majority knew they could do certain things.

Except chaindrives require a few minute tutorial or downloading an avilable example to figure out. They are fundamentally simple (clock connects to jump computer) and doesn't require programming knowledge. People have custom controlled turrets in space engineers, that aren't seeing adoption, because its too god damn complicated to replicate, even if its useful as hell.

Also there's a difference between copying someone elses work and making your own, as far as enjoying games are concerned. I like making my own logic, but im not gonna do that anymore if i have to sit around writing lua to do it. If people are just downloading doors, displays and lights from community content, then they aren't really making the ships anymore.

Also, stop being such a ragey cunt, it makes it hard to take your opinion as valid

Maybe i'd be a little less irritated if people would stop regurgitating the same stupid sugestions ad nauseum:

Block Based AI Programming
In Game Programming
A scripting/programming expansion for the Logic blocks
Programming ships in Lua?

On top of this there are no good arguments for this. Why should this be added to the game? All im seeing in the thread are display options; weapon systems, chaindrives, doors and lights are compact enough as they are, hell vanu built this fucking thing LRSF-1 Orion with chaindrive, displays and a built in manual, and it still dominates ships 10x it's size, so what exactly is the problem with logic taking too much space??? This is a completely unnecessary suggestion that ignores all the downsides that come with it:

• Performance is going to suffer from this; you think you can run an operating system in an inefficient java game that already has trouble handling two ships in combat if they shoot too much?
• Spoiler: Disregard this

  How are you going to reference the blocks activated in the fucking code??? Space engineers has a handy list of all the machines on your entity where you can reference them by name, and it's still too fucking hard for people to copy over code, because they have to hunt down all the little references and replace them with the names from their ships. You act like this code can just be passed around and is easily integrated into any other ship, but that's not the case. If people are going to use tech they download it needs to be extremely easy to add to their ship.
• You aren't going to have two competing ways of doing the same thing. People won't like using logic blocks knowing there is a more compact, less damage prone version available they just don't know how to use, and at the same time most people don't want to learn programming in order to play a fucking game. And no, it is in no way as simple as understanding logic blocks; you have to learn assignment and control structures to do basic things that are currently as simple as place button -> push button -> door open magic. Then there's the problem that a lot of people just shut down mentally when presented with code, but those friendly inviting cubes that are almost like legos aren't as scary.

And what do get for this? More roleplaying interiors. Get a dollhouse instead.

 

[kiddan]

This is what its about, isn't it? You're a code fetishist and this is the endgame.

I actually don't know and code whatsoever (I'd be willing to learn, a horrifying concept, I know).
Your conclusion is laughable, to say the least.

 

[Raisinbat]

Your conclusion is laughable, to say the least.

why?

 

[therimmer96]

You can't put two competing systems into a game where one of them is defacto superior, which computers are to logic, the inferior one wont see use.

THEY'RE NOT COMPETING SYSTEMS. They work together. You'd still use logic to control certain elements, you'd just use computers for larger, more meaningful controls. Like how a computer has peripherals. The doors would still have a control circuit, the computer would just be able to send an open/close command. Lifts would still have a system determining route, the computers can just be used to tell it which floor to travel to without needing a massive number pad.

Whats the point of this? Only 1% of people should be able to build in starmade, and that's okay? And i thought i was elitist...

His point was that in the real world, very few people actually program. You don't have to program the features that your computer uses, people like schema do, and you make use of them. What's to stop that happening in the game? We already do that with blueprints and the community content.

YOU. DON'T. NEED. THIS.

I mean that is one cool as fuck display, but you don't need this.

Why dont you make a request for adding graphs to display blocks instead if this is so important?

You didn't read it properly did you. We're getting command chairs. You'll sit on the bridge of your ship controlling it from there. Which means we're going to need world space UI elements, hence the reason we can add the tags to the display blocks already. They're just not good enough for use as a HUD element in that way yet. We can design our own bespoke systems for our own bespoke ships.

We're playing a game focused on creativity. We don't have to build nice looking ships, we choose to though. If we didn't want to build systems and ships ourselves, we could all go play Elite Dangerous or EVE.

THEN WHY ISN'T THIS HAPPENING IN THE OTHER GAMES THAT IMPLEMENTED THIS??? WHERE ARE THESE FEATURES FOR SPACE ENGINEERS AND COMPUTERCRAFT??? The only scrip for space engineers i've seen with any kind of adoption is Steam Workshop :: Solar Panel Alignment Script [BROKEN] and of about 1000 machines made in that game only ONE made any kind of extensive logic use. That one machine was hella cool, but the other ships used extremely little if any logic, either sticking to simple displays or maybe a blinking light, because anything involving moving parts or inventory control, easy and straightforward to do in starmade, requires a fucking college education.

Could it be that maybe people want to have fun in a game instead of bothering with overly obtuse bullshit?

Clearly you don't pay enough attention. Let me open your eyes for you.

First of all Space Engineers
1377 scripts have been uploaded to the steam workshop.

The most popular all time on there is this one, Steam Workshop :: Configurable Automatic LCDs, with
108,885 Current Subscribers.

Then you have Steam Workshop :: Phils_Ship_Diagnostics with 24,615 Current Subscribers

and then the sequel to that first one Steam Workshop :: Automatic LCDs 2 25,964 Current Subscribers

Next, lets look at ComputerCraft. Now, CC unfortunatly doesn't have anything as nice as the steams workshop, nor is it as popular as SE, but I'd say 3,981 topics in its program sharing forum is plenty for proof of activity.

I also wish to point out that people already use things people share in StarMade. Look at the Chaindrive. A logic device that someone smarter than alot of us created, and provided for the rest of us to use. I fit it to alot of things, as do an aweful lot of people.

Just because you don't have an interest, and therefore don't expose yourself to these things doesn't mean you can say they don't exist.

This is what its about, isn't it? You're a code fetishist and this is the endgame.

That's the second mention of fetishs from you, isn't it? Is there something you want to share with us.

No, that's not the core behind the reason. But people could do that, and what's wrong with that. We have rails, a system that lets Atra build massive mechs. You don't need to go to that extreme, but it's nice to have that level of freedom

IT'S ALREADY HERE!!! It's already been done, and noone is using it! Why do you think a game with a fraction of the population that doesn't emphasize complex machines in the way space engineers does is going to have more success with it???

That's funny, because space engineers is currently more popular than starmade.

Also there's a difference between copying someone elses work and making your own, as far as enjoying games are concerned. I like making my own logic, but im not gonna do that anymore if i have to sit around writing lua to do it. If people are just downloading doors, displays and lights from community content, then they aren't really making the ships anymore.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO. If you like building things in blocks, that's your choice. But for those of us who want to be able to combine that with something else to make it more powerful and accessible to every scale, then this suggestion is valid. I get you don't want to program, so don't! The game supports block modding, you don't have to do that either.

• Performance is going to suffer from this; you think you can run an operating system in an inefficient java game that already has trouble handling two ships in combat if they shoot too much?

It's called being smart about it. Take a look at CC, made as a mod for a java game. It works by running every program on the server one at a time. If a program takes too long to run, it crashes the program and continues with the next. That way it's never doing too much at once. These things don't need to behave like i7's, they just need to work.

Starmade added background simulation NPC factions to the game, and your worried a small bit of code running in the background is a hit on performance?

How are you going to reference the blocks activated in the fucking code??? Space engineers has a handy list of all the machines on your entity where you can reference them by name, and it's still too fucking hard for people to copy over code, because they have to hunt down all the little references and replace them with the names from their ships. You act like this code can just be passed around and is easily integrated into any other ship, but that's not the case. If people are going to use tech they download it needs to be extremely easy to add to their ship.

Read the suggestion, this was answered in the OP you dumb fucker.

You aren't going to have two competing ways of doing the same thing. People won't like using logic blocks knowing there is a more compact, less damage prone version available they just don't know how to use, and at the same time most people don't want to learn programming in order to play a fucking game. And no, it is in no way as simple as understanding logic blocks; you have to learn assignment and control structures to do basic things that are currently as simple as place button -> push button -> door open magic. Then there's the problem that a lot of people just shut down mentally when presented with code, but those friendly inviting cubes that are almost like legos aren't as scary.

LOGIC WILL STILL WORK. It's like the difference between the basic activator > door circuit, and then throwing in logic gates. There are people who will stick to simple things, and people who will chose to use the more complex system. It's like ship building. There are people who decide to minmax, learning the perfect ratios for building things like reactors, and those who don't care and just build.

It's all about choice. You just don't like the suggestion because you personally don't want to use it. That's fine, some people don't want to play in creative mode, it's still there for those who do.

Why did LOD blocks get added to the game? They let us build things better. Sure, there are poeple who don't like them, people who think they look out of place, and those people have the option to ignore them. But for those people to reject a suggestion just because they don't want to use it would have been stupid, because it hinders the ability for everyone else to improve builds. It hinders everyone else from making the things that they want to.

 

[lupoCani]

Performance is going to suffer from this; you think you can run an operating system in an inefficient java game that already has trouble handling two ships in combat if they shoot too much?

Yes. Two ships shooting is astonishingly complicated, performance-heavy three-dimensional trigonometric equations being iterated thousands of times in a single tick, and tens of ticks per second. Meanwhile, an operating system will consist of neatly ordered logical instructions to be executed, one at a time.

In fact, Lua may even outperform logic. Consider a chess game. You could simulate a chess board made of atoms, pieces made of atoms, the forces that act on them, friction, and so forth. Or, you could write up a simple 2D grid, assign each square a number to represent a piece, and run with that.

Logic, in a way, is closer to the former. Operations like AND, OR and NOT are child's play for a modern computer, the sort of stuff you could run millions of times a second without straining anything. The problem is, the game isn't running logic operations by themselves, it's simulating blocks that interact with rules in ticks, and among those rules are the logic operations we're actually using.

Lua won't have that problem. It will be abstract, tucked away in the belly of the game, with tendrils connecting it to the "computer" block or whatever abstraction we end up implementing.

 

[Raisinbat]

Read the suggestion, this was answered in the OP you dumb fucker.

Reread OP 3 times, not seeing it.

Im talking about linking your computer to a block, not another computer, like a door.

If that's in OP please quote it.

The most popular all time on there is this one, Steam Workshop :: Configurable Automatic LCDs, with
108,885 Current Subscribers.

Then you have Steam Workshop :: Phils_Ship_Diagnostics with 24,615 Current Subscribers

and then the sequel to that first one Steam Workshop :: Automatic LCDs 2 25,964 Current Subscribers

And those are all just for display controls. I'm not against having more advanced display controls, but that's not what this thread is asking for.

Going by steamspy Space Engineers -
2.1 million people got space engineers. That's <5% adoption, and only for ONE script, plus that's been out for about as long as space engineers has been popular. Idk what the adoption rate for docked reactors was, but i'm pretty sure it was more than this.

I'd also point out that those scripts are necessary for people to setup useful displays since as far as i know space engineers doesn't allow variable referencing in it's displays, so if space engineers weren't made by silly people those scripts wouldn't be necessary at all. I've been using display blocks for HUDs for over a year now, they work in starmade, you just don't have infinite formatting options.

Next, lets look at ComputerCraft. Now, CC unfortunatly doesn't have anything as nice as the steams workshop, nor is it as popular as SE, but I'd say 3,981 topics in its program sharing forum is plenty for proof of activity.

Community Content | StarMade Dock wow over 5000 ships shared.

Also computercraft may be less popular than SE but minecraft sure as hell isn't. How many minecraft players adopted computercraft?

Compare computercraft to industrialcraft or any other major minecraft mod. I can't find numbers for it, but i'd like to hear what they're like. Minecraft has millions of players, if only a few thousand use computercraft that's not very good.

It's called being smart about it. Take a look at CC, made as a mod for a java game. It works by running every program on the server one at a time. If a program takes too long to run, it crashes the program and continues with the next. That way it's never doing too much at once. These things don't need to behave like i7's, they just need to work.

Crashing because there's combat means they work? Starmade is much more demanding than minecraft.

That's the second mention of fetishs from you, isn't it? Is there something you want to share with us.

No, that's not the core behind the reason. But people could do that, and what's wrong with that. We have rails, a system that lets Atra build massive mechs. You don't need to go to that extreme, but it's nice to have that level of freedom

Point is people want programming for the sake of programming, which is a terrible reason for why a new feature should be added to starmade. Piling on tons of features makes the game a bloated mess, and takes away development from other areas that need it more.

The only other point i've heard is wanting to condense logic into one block, which IS a reasonable thing for the game, but you're also vastly over complicating the game for the sake of something that has very little impact on it. I linked you a tiny ship with tons of logic that's still really powerful, so whats the justification for this?

Again, if only 1% of people are going to use the feature, it shouldn't be added.

 

[therimmer96]

Reread OP 3 times, not seeing it.

Im talking about linking your computer to a block, not another computer, like a door.

If that's in OP please quote it.

You don't directly link to blocks, you link to innership remotes that you would then use to interact with existing logic systems

Innership remote
Rather than a new block, addition to an existing one. You could have something like -snip-

And those are all just for display controls. I'm not against having more advanced display controls, but that's not what this thread is asking for.

Going by steamspy Space Engineers -
2.1 million people got space engineers. That's <5% adoption, and only for ONE script, plus that's been out for about as long as space engineers has been popular. Idk what the adoption rate for docked reactors was, but i'm pretty sure it was more than this.

I'd also point out that those scripts are necessary for people to setup useful displays since as far as i know space engineers doesn't allow variable referencing in it's displays, so if space engineers weren't made by silly people those scripts wouldn't be necessary at all. I've been using display blocks for HUDs for over a year now, they work in starmade, you just don't have infinite formatting options.

So what? They also have things like Steam Workshop :: Oxygen Lockdown and Steam Workshop :: Whip's Rotor Thruster Manager (Works with Pistons and Connectors!)

The point is not what people are making, it's that people are willing to download programs other people have made, even if they don't want to make things like that themselves.

Community Content | StarMade Dock wow over 5000 ships shared.

Also computercraft may be less popular than SE but minecraft sure as hell isn't. How many minecraft players adopted computercraft?

Compare computercraft to industrialcraft or any other major minecraft mod. I can't find numbers for it, but i'd like to hear what they're like. Minecraft has millions of players, if only a few thousand use computercraft that's not very good.

C0mputerCraft has been included in several of those modpacks like Technic and FTB. It's a mod, and a rarely updated one at that, it's not going to be very popular on its own in comparison to the game itself.

Crashing because there's combat means they work? Starmade is much more demanding than minecraft.

What are you even on about? If the program hogs the CC thread for too long, the mod crashes it. It would run outside of the main games thread.

Point is people want programming for the sake of programming, which is a terrible reason for why a new feature should be added to starmade. Piling on tons of features makes the game a bloated mess, and takes away development from other areas that need it more.

I want programming for the same reason that people wanted logic. There was similar arguments against a logic system being added to the game before it was in. Those people were as silly as you are now.

The only other point i've heard is wanting to condense logic into one block, which IS a reasonable thing for the game, but you're also vastly over complicating the game for the sake of something that has very little impact on it. I linked you a tiny ship with tons of logic that's still really powerful, so whats the justification for this?

The justification is potential. Simple logic is easy to squeeze in, but things that would really add a new level to builds require massive amounts of logic, such as complex lifts, hangar control systems and cargo control is overly complicated to build in logic. This system would make adding things like password controls to the game easier and much more open.

Again, if only 1% of people are going to use the feature, it shouldn't be added.

How many people use NPCs on their ships? How many people use the LUA programming built into them?

I believe a large number of people would use this. Not because I think programming is easy, but because I think it's easy to learn, especially with a language like Lua. ComputerCraft was my first exposure to programming, and is what taught me the basic concepts that helped me when I formally started learning it. The logic system is complicated to people new coming into the game, heck, alot of the mechanics are, 3 years of being a server admin having to help teach people these things that seem simple to us now has shown that too me. They still want to learn it because it can make their stuff better.
Look at things like building power effectively. These are things that allow you to enhance your build because you are willing to put the time in, but doesn't force you into it.

Don't be an idiot. You might not want to use this system, but to say that it shouldn't be added because you don't want to use it would be silly for something that can be completely ignored. They added transporters, not everyone wanted those. Those people can elect not to use them.

 

[Raisinbat]

You don't directly link to blocks, you link to innership remotes that you would then use to interact with existing logic systems

Ok i get it now. This also means your computer can be uploaded as a blueprint that includes the innership remotes so you can get around the space engineers issue with having to edit code for names. Getting that point of the list.

I am curious though, how many blocks will you actually save on that display setup? Definitely isn't a 1 block solution anymore.

So what? They also have things like Steam Workshop :: Oxygen Lockdown and Steam Workshop :: Whip's Rotor Thruster Manager (Works with Pistons and Connectors!)

The point is not what people are making, it's that people are willing to download programs other people have made, even if they don't want to make things like that themselves.

My point is that people DO want to make these things. I want to make these things, but i don't want to use programming to do it, and i'm not alone in that. None of those scripts are necessary for starmade because the logic system makes doing these things super easy.

You're saying we can just ignore it, but that's not entirely true; if you have one option that reduces the effectiveness of your ship more than a second option, you've gotta go with the second. This is kind of stretching it, but its like saying we can add extra powerful guns for use on RP ships since theyre so shit, and we can just chose to ignore them if we're not making RP ships... Again that's a lot more exteme than your suggestion, but the point remains that one system is inferior to the other.

C0mputerCraft has been included in several of those modpacks like Technic and FTB. It's a mod, and a rarely updated one at that, it's not going to be very popular on its own in comparison to the game itself.

No but its not popular compared to other mods is my point; programming is a niche feature for people to use.

I want programming for the same reason that people wanted logic. There was similar arguments against a logic system being added to the game before it was in. Those people were as silly as you are now.

No, before logic you couldn't do any of the things logic allows you to do. This doesn't allow you to do anything new, except the broadcasting but that can easily be integrated into regular logic, it just makes it more compact and less accessible.

I believe a large number of people would use this. Not because I think programming is easy, but because I think it's easy to learn, especially with a language like Lua.

You do know a lot of people playing aren't fluent in english. This is an insane assumption on your end, and not just because it is hard to learn, but a lot of people see something that looks complex and run away screaming.

How many people use NPCs on their ships? How many people use the LUA programming built into them?

Using the product of a feature is not equal to using the feature.

How many people use NPCs on their ships? How many people use the LUA programming built into them?

You're right, if this is implemented people WILL download and use the scripts, but we already have block examples of doors and airlocks and people are still making their own, which means people WANT to make their own. People care about their ships being good; if making it yourself makes it worse you're going to get someone elses solution because its better and you want a good ship. That's why they can't coexist. You keep saying people have a choice but that's only true if you don't care about the outcome, and you clearly care about the outcome, why else would you want logic to take up less space?

Look at it this way; if you added realistic nuclear reactors to starmade that you can use to get much more power out of the same mass but only people who understand how to build and operate nuclear power plants are able to build ships using them, even if current reactors remain, why would you make your own ship when you can't make something comparable to the experts? When you introduce these overly complex systems you are effectively shutting everyone who can't use them out of the building part of the game, and being the accessible space sandbox is pretty much where starmade shines.

 

[therimmer96]

I am curious though, how many blocks will you actually save on that display setup? Definitely isn't a 1 block solution anymore.

A display like that could be done within the computer assuming the computer can pass display data to a display in a similar fashion as logic can. Get the values, build the graphs, and then display them.

My point is that people DO want to make these things. I want to make these things, but i don't want to use programming to do it, and i'm not alone in that. None of those scripts are necessary for starmade because the logic system makes doing these things super easy.

So how would you do cross entity communiction in a super easy way? Say if I had a ship hangar that I wanted to require a password to open, but I wanted that to be accessible from any ship, without having to relink wireless logic connections? Large scale multi-floor elevators are a good example of where the logic system is not super easy. When crusade wanted to build one, he had to have a system that allowed the user to type in a code on the lift that would then be decoded on the ship. Or you could just have a computer with something as simple as

var Value = ReadLine()

if(value == 1)
    SetLogicSignal("Floor 1", true)
if(value == 2_
    SetLogicSignal("Floor 2", true)

That's part of why I believe this is a valid addition, because for many things, just programming it will be easier than working out how to do it with 1 meter cubed logic gates.

Logic will still be viable for many things, but when it's not, computers would be available to fill the gaps.

You're right, if this is implemented people WILL download and use the scripts, but we already have block examples of doors and airlocks and people are still making their own, which means people WANT to make their own. People care about their ships being good; if making it yourself makes it worse you're going to get someone elses solution because its better and you want a good ship. That's why they can't coexist. You keep saying people have a choice but that's only true if you don't care about the outcome, and you clearly care about the outcome, why else would you want logic to take up less space?

No but its not popular compared to other mods is my point; programming is a niche feature for people to use.

Yes, it is, but so is a space voxel game. Alot of our community are... well... nerds, who have some interest in things like programming.

No, before logic you couldn't do any of the things logic allows you to do. This doesn't allow you to do anything new, except the broadcasting but that can easily be integrated into regular logic, it just makes it more compact and less accessible.

It makes it more accessible for a great many things. Systems that are currently needlessly complex could be made alot simpler. The game uses some odd concepts, like placing displays and rails next to activators to copy them. Programming is just a list of instructions in plain english. This would open the door to much more complex things, much more automation of things.

The game could even come with premade scripts that do alot of the simpler, more general stuff so people don't have to learn to use them to get usage out of them, aswell as helping explain the system.

You do know a lot of people playing aren't fluent in english. This is an insane assumption on your end, and not just because it is hard to learn, but a lot of people see something that looks complex and run away screaming.

I believe that the majority are fluent in english, it may not be their first language, but they're fluent. I also don't believe it would be that difficult to translate it, we're not talking about complex phrases here.

Using the product of a feature is not equal to using the feature.

What?
[doublepost=1486263477,1486263052][/doublepost]

You're right, if this is implemented people WILL download and use the scripts, but we already have block examples of doors and airlocks and people are still making their own, which means people WANT to make their own. People care about their ships being good; if making it yourself makes it worse you're going to get someone elses solution because its better and you want a good ship. That's why they can't coexist. You keep saying people have a choice but that's only true if you don't care about the outcome, and you clearly care about the outcome, why else would you want logic to take up less space?

People will be able to make their own stuff, as I've said, this would simplify alot of the more complex that seems daunting to people. I'm scared by some of the logic systems that people build, this system would open those up to me and other people because they wouldn't need to be so complex. This would also probably result in a performance gain because people wouldn't need to use the logic system for things it really wasn't designed to do.

Look at it this way; if you added realistic nuclear reactors to starmade that you can use to get much more power out of the same mass but only people who understand how to build and operate nuclear power plants are able to build ships using them, even if current reactors remain, why would you make your own ship when you can't make something comparable to the experts?

The game has an option for power reactors to be more efficient than they are normally. That's where this game really shines. It's accessible from the start, yes, but it's also got depth that allows continued exploration of the mechanics, like learning that power storage is more effective in a single group. Refusing to add features because they're not immediately obvious or take time to learn is foolish, and would result in a game full of features, but with nothing fleshed out.

 

[Raisinbat]

A display like that could be done within the computer assuming the computer can pass display data to a display in a similar fashion as logic can. Get the values, build the graphs, and then display them.

No, no you can't! Not unless there's a way to link the computer directly to a block and we just established its not going to work that way. Linking 1 computer to 1 display is not an issue, but for the setup you showed you'd need multiple displays linked to a single computer and thats where shit goes wrong. I was assuming that's what you wanted which is why i didnt get the OP, but according to the OP this wouldn't be possible either. Keep in mind that displays can't just be copy pasted with the blueprints because they have to be in specific positions depending on the ship, so now people downloading the scripts need to redo these connections all over again.

So how would you do cross entity communiction in a super easy way? Say if I had a ship hangar that I wanted to require a password to open, but I wanted that to be accessible from any ship, without having to relink wireless logic connections? Large scale multi-floor elevators are a good example of where the logic system is not super easy. When crusade wanted to build one, he had to have a system that allowed the user to type in a code on the lift that would then be decoded on the ship. Or you could just have a computer with something as simple as

What is with all this password nonsense, that's not necessary. Having a password block would be a much simpler way of doing this , where you just activate it, get a prompt, and it outputs logic if right. If programming is added then the logic system might not see useful blocks added because "lol just use the computers, here's a script you can download" another reason they shouldn't coexist.

Why would you need to type in a code, what in the sweet licorice is the point of all this???

If, disregarding the password, you just want cross entity communication having a block like wireless that just transmits on a set frequency can do that just fine, or now that we have logic beams (sort of) in the game you can use those, albeit only at short range.

It makes it more accessible for a great many things. Systems that are currently needlessly complex could be made alot simpler. The game uses some odd concepts, like placing displays and rails next to activators to copy them. Programming is just a list of instructions in plain english. This would open the door to much more complex things, much more automation of things.

The game could even come with premade scripts that do alot of the simpler, more general stuff so people don't have to learn to use them to get usage out of them, aswell as helping explain the system.

ACCESSIBLE??? Programming is a huge obstacle, not to you because you know it, but to every other fucking person on earth, NO IT IS NOT ACCESSIBLE.

That's part of why I believe this is a valid addition, because for many things, just programming it will be easier than working out how to do it with 1 meter cubed logic gates.

Logic will still be viable for many things, but when it's not, computers would be available to fill the gaps.

That's not how it fucking works YOU CANT HAVE COMPETING SYSTEMS FOR DOING THE SAME THING WHERE ONE IS BETTER FOR FUCKS SAKE, THERE'S NO POINT HAVING THE WORSE ONE.

What?

You dont need to know how to program Java to play starmade

People will be able to make their own stuff, as I've said, this would simplify alot of the more complex that seems daunting to people. I'm scared by some of the logic systems that people build, this system would open those up to me and other people because they wouldn't need to be so complex. This would also probably result in a performance gain because people wouldn't need to use the logic system for things it really wasn't designed to do.

EXCEPT THEY WONT WANT TO AND I JUST EXPLAINED WHY. Also the complex shit you're talking about is totally unnecessary for the game, like making your own metro or having programmable computers; they're neat but they don't fucking matter to the game.

The game has an option for power reactors to be more efficient than they are normally. That's where this game really shines. It's accessible from the start, yes, but it's also got depth that allows continued exploration of the mechanics, like learning that power storage is more effective in a single group. Refusing to add features because they're not immediately obvious or take time to learn is foolish, and would result in a game full of features, but with nothing fleshed out.

Any idiot who takes 5 minutes to understand reactor lines can make efficient power system; That's in no fucking way comparable to programming. Hell you can figure them out on your own with a little experimentation. Im not saying don't add it because its not immediately obvious; what you're asking for is fucking complicated, YOU just know how it works.

Yes, it is, but so is a space voxel game. Alot of our community are... well... nerds, who have some interest in things like programming.

That's like calling star wars obscure.

Again, explain to me why a game about building should limit building to people with programming skills, since people who can't program are going to be limited to an inferior system? And no, making these obscure gimmicky machines aren't a good reason to do that.

 

[GalactusX]

This reminds me of a short fable:
3 people are given 1 million €, after 1 year, the first has nothing, the second has the same money, and the last has multiplied that money by 3 ...

Everyone has at their disposal the same tools within the game, in this case building blocks and logic, is in the hands of each one, do with it what you like and need, if you implement something new as a small Programming language, does not imply that anyone will use it, implies that those who like it, use it, and thanks to that group of people, others can get all the juice.

Everything is a chain, the first link teaches the second, this to the third, and so on, we only suggest more tools to unleash our imagination.

No, no you can't! Not unless there's a way to link the computer directly to a block and we just established its not going to work that way. Linking 1 computer to 1 display is not an issue, but for the setup you showed you'd need multiple displays linked to a single computer and thats where shit goes wrong. I was assuming that's what you wanted which is why i didnt get the OP, but according to the OP this wouldn't be possible either. Keep in mind that displays can't just be copy pasted with the blueprints because they have to be in specific positions depending on the ship, so now people downloading the scripts need to redo these connections all over again.

What is with all this password nonsense, that's not necessary. Having a password block would be a much simpler way of doing this , where you just activate it, get a prompt, and it outputs logic if right. If programming is added then the logic system might not see useful blocks added because "lol just use the computers, here's a script you can download" another reason they shouldn't coexist.

Why would you need to type in a code, what in the sweet licorice is the point of all this???

If, disregarding the password, you just want cross entity communication having a block like wireless that just transmits on a set frequency can do that just fine, or now that we have logic beams (sort of) in the game you can use those, albeit only at short range.



ACCESSIBLE??? Programming is a huge obstacle, not to you because you know it, but to every other fucking person on earth, NO IT IS NOT ACCESSIBLE.



That's not how it fucking works YOU CANT HAVE COMPETING SYSTEMS FOR DOING THE SAME THING WHERE ONE IS BETTER FOR FUCKS SAKE, THERE'S NO POINT HAVING THE WORSE ONE.



You dont need to know how to program Java to play starmade



EXCEPT THEY WONT WANT TO AND I JUST EXPLAINED WHY. Also the complex shit you're talking about is totally unnecessary for the game, like making your own metro or having programmable computers; they're neat but they don't fucking matter to the game.



Any idiot who takes 5 minutes to understand reactor lines can make efficient power system; That's in no fucking way comparable to programming. Hell you can figure them out on your own with a little experimentation. Im not saying don't add it because its not immediately obvious; what you're asking for is fucking complicated, YOU just know how it works.



That's like calling star wars obscure.

Again, explain to me why a game about building should limit building to people with programming skills, since people who can't program are going to be limited to an inferior system? And no, making these obscure gimmicky machines aren't a good reason to do that.

And please, if an idea or suggestion conflicts with yours, respect comes first, the second is to state your point of view, but never try to tread others, closing your eyes and ears to the opinions of others . Your opinion and ours are totally valid, they only have different points of view, Obscene language is over