Read by Schine Semi-vague Lua Computer Suggestion

[ZombieMouse]

So let me ask you, Schine, and the rest of the community, would you be happier with a block that allows you to build in a "virtual" environment with logic blocks? That way you could reduce mass and space requirements for everyone, and in essence programming this block would still be a "block-building" activity.

That, I have absolutely no problem with. The large size the current logic systems take up doesn't bother me --fitting it in is just one more design consideration-- but I'm not going to argue things must be big for the sake of being big. If the various 'ghost' logic systems still need to be coupled to their physical systems at some point, then to an extent they will still be vulnerable to battle damage also.

 

[GalactusX]

That, I have absolutely no problem with. The large size the current logic systems take up doesn't bother me --fitting it in is just one more design consideration-- but I'm not going to argue things must be big for the sake of being big. If the various 'ghost' logic systems still need to be coupled to their physical systems at some point, then to an extent they will still be vulnerable to battle damage also.

What you mean is, it does not matter if the logical systems takes place in a "virtual" environment or in a "ghost" environment, they must all be able to destroy by PVP combat, is that what you mean?

 

[ZombieMouse]

Yes GalactusX. IMHO if there was to be a logic layer, those logic blocks should effectively be 'stored' inside another block that can be destroyed. A 'micro-computer' block or something like containing the logic blocks might be good. Maybe even an existing block that doesn't do anything, like the decorative computers.

 

[GalactusX]

Well .. come to this point, it is assumed that, no matter the method used to "save" those small portions of code of logical programs, these should be possible destroyed in pvp ... ok with that ( this is a pvp-pve sandbox game where 100% of everything can be destroyed or mining ).

The question here is the possibility of adding or not some type of "programming" or "script" inside the game (other than using the already known REGEX commands).

To me, I personally do not mind building certain things using thousands of logical blocks, but what I care is (and I guess most players), to be able to do certain things, using the least space, having the most possibilities.

For example, you want to make a mechanism to launch the drones of your mining vessel, to mine, in that ship, you have 10 drones (or 20, or 30, or all that you want), to throw all the drones to the Instead, you only need 1 button ... OK ... but if you want to throw all the drones one by one, you must have a button for each drone, and each button takes up space, and each launch mechanism also occupies your Space ... therefore, the more mechanisms you have to use to play, the more space you will remove in your ship / station so you can use it in other tasks (shields, weapons, systems, etc.).

What would you think, if I tell you that all these mechanisms can be done via a small "program" inside a display / computer, where you just have to write / select the drone / drones you want to use / launch? Really you would not use a system that allows you to decrease your ship 100 or 200 blocks, and use only 1?

And no, this would not create "player classes" in the community / game, you can currently play starmade without using any kind of logic; To play starmade you "do not need" to use logic blocks ... and here comes the big BUT ... but it is always interesting to be able to use the logic to make certain "tasks" more versatile and interesting.

"Give a man a pencil and paper, and he will draw you a house, give him a hammer and chisel, and he will build these house, give a man the right tools and he will bring the stars to the door of your house."

 

[Drountian]

Well .. come to this point, it is assumed that, no matter the method used to "save" those small portions of code of logical programs, these should be possible destroyed in pvp ... ok with that ( this is a pvp-pve sandbox game where 100% of everything can be destroyed or mining ).

The question here is the possibility of adding or not some type of "programming" or "script" inside the game (other than using the already known REGEX commands).

To me, I personally do not mind building certain things using thousands of logical blocks, but what I care is (and I guess most players), to be able to do certain things, using the least space, having the most possibilities.

For example, you want to make a mechanism to launch the drones of your mining vessel, to mine, in that ship, you have 10 drones (or 20, or 30, or all that you want), to throw all the drones to the Instead, you only need 1 button ... OK ... but if you want to throw all the drones one by one, you must have a button for each drone, and each button takes up space, and each launch mechanism also occupies your Space ... therefore, the more mechanisms you have to use to play, the more space you will remove in your ship / station so you can use it in other tasks (shields, weapons, systems, etc.).

What would you think, if I tell you that all these mechanisms can be done via a small "program" inside a display / computer, where you just have to write / select the drone / drones you want to use / launch? Really you would not use a system that allows you to decrease your ship 100 or 200 blocks, and use only 1?

And no, this would not create "player classes" in the community / game, you can currently play starmade without using any kind of logic; To play starmade you "do not need" to use logic blocks ... and here comes the big BUT ... but it is always interesting to be able to use the logic to make certain "tasks" more versatile and interesting.

"Give a man a pencil and paper, and he will draw you a house, give him a hammer and chisel, and he will build these house, give a man the right tools and he will bring the stars to the door of your house."

Okay, first, it's possible to launch one drone at a time with one button, and retrieval of said drones is also possible with one button, of course, it's not easy. Things like this take a huge amount of space, that said, there is a point where you need more than one button too. Personally I feel that single buttons being the size of blocks is tough.

This is a little off topic, but still relevant.
Spaceships are complicated, in the game they have been simplified to the point where I don't find it fun to build them, that said, logic has helped this somewhat. Physical functionality is hugely versatile with the rail system, but energy functionality, scanning functionality, and interface functionality lags behind. The game's UI has gotten much better recently, but the ship control UI, and the ship control interfaces have a long way to go. I would love to eventually be able to orbit a planet, this is currently very difficult. I think that your need for compacting functionality is NOT only a question of a computer. While computers would HELP to make this a reality, we really need better interface blocks. Buttons are very simple currently, and that's cool, but when you have 795 individual system functions to control it gets tough. (Maybe not right now but wait until reactors are a thing and core ejection becomes possible), (wait until the power overhaul when you actually need to balance power to the parts of the ship), (wait until people start writing their own AI with logic blocks and sensors, or they start writing it with Lua). I think something needs to change here, but that should be a separate thread maybe.

In any case, logic blocks are finicky, using them is like writing code in assembly, but you don't have access to "mov, mul, or add" (those building functional systems with logic blocks probably implement those first). It would be workable for light functionality, but large systems with logic blocks will never be efficient, even if they are consolidated. There's a reason graphical programming never got off the ground. Additionally, servers will choke and wheeze at the most basic of behavioral programs, simply because the game is virtualizing on the hardware level...ick. In any case I would rather there be a Lua interpreter, but maybe this could be a mod on down the line for those who enjoy coding. I will note that it's extremely unlikely that writing a mod like CC or OC will ever happen for starmade, there is not a large enough community to support a coding pack like Minecraft has, let alone a loader as powerful and versatile as forge. Those of us who want to code in the game, our only chance is to get the devs to port their Lua interpreter.

Sorry about the doom and gloom commentary, but I really felt Lua would fit with the game, shame so many members of the community disagree.

 

[therimmer96]

Computercraft is not the best example. A better one is OpenComputers, which limits the processing power

ComputerCraft does this by limiting how long each computer can run for (if you tell it to pause or wait for an event, this counts as not running)

I used CC because it's the most popular. Power requirements may not be a good idea, imagine if logic stopped working every time you ran out power.

 

[Xtremesonicboom]

Having read the Op and the many opinions on it in this thread, it seems to me that most people are concerned with a steep learning curve with significant benefits over existing systems. Those against the idea don't necessarily see the Lua system as having more functions than a similar logic system, they seem to see it as "using this system, you've unlocked 3o more blocks for (your choice of cannon, missile, power, etc.).

Addressing the significant learning curve, I would argue that the learning curve for Lua won't be significantly more than that of logic. Just glancing over some of Lua's documentation, I can see that the language is fairly self explanatory and much easier to learn than a language like C#, Java, or Batch script (haven't programmed in Lua, have programmed in the 3 I've listed). And for those who's time is so important you can't sit down for five minutes and mess about with trying to program your own Lua program or modify someone else's program, well, you're just going to have to rely on nice people like Galactus to upload creations to suit your needs. Same goes for any creation of bog standard logic.

And finally, addressing Lua's potential impact on server performance, giving each program a limited time slot in which to execute solves the problem of long running, laggy scripts, given that you can wait for the time slot to end. And once that happens, I can imagine a server admin will kindly ask you to stop doing whatever it is you're doing to cause lag. Just like planet mining, or any similar laggy activity. I imagine it'd be handled something like it's described in this post, specifically the section entitled too long without yielding. With regards to having multiple computers running at once, I imagine you'd only need to limit the number of simultaneously running programs.

TLDR: Concerned about impact on minmaxing in PvP? Go build a doom cube. Too hard? Steal other people's work. Too laggy? So is 300 logic blocks. And quit whining. It's not the worst "reasonable" suggestion to grace the Dock's suggestion forum.

 

[djthekiller]

so something i was looking for is a personal "computer" which you can access from your character and have it activate systems in a structure.
like a ComputerCraft tablet... but it basically just links to the structure that you are on and any docked structures to cause it to activate... or you could run a lua program from that to your computer

 

[SneakyFish]

Please no scripting. Not everyone knows how to code. Took me like 2 years to get the hang of relatively simple logic systems. The other night I sat at a stop sign for 12 minutes waiting for it to turn green. Schema pls no

 

[Valck]

Please no scripting. Not everyone knows how to code. Took me like 2 years to get the hang of relatively simple logic systems. The other night I sat at a stop sign for 12 minutes waiting for it to turn green. Schema pls no

Please no weapons. Not everyone wants to fight. Took me like 2 years to get the hang of fighting NPC pirates. The other night I got killed by a pirate tentacle station. Schema pls no

 

[therimmer96]

*awkward cough*

GitHub - dan200/ComputerCraft: Programmable Computers for Minecraft