Recognized Raw Resources used in Shipyard BP Construction

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    Really just to make it more of an upgrade and an optional thing, you could see the other uses as well, like Roleplay and maintaining shops(past the 50,000 limit, you could make shops reset macet capsules back to 20,000 every day, taking any extra macet capsules into a storage, any less than 20,000 from te storage to the shop).
    :schema: Likes to have everything block based, having a new block do the things and not just a new popup thing. You could make an upgrade costing credits, but I like it better through material upgrades than just credits.
    i dont really understand, can you explain better?
     

    Benevolent27

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    This might be worth thinking about. I propose that when constructing a ship using a shipyard a player should have the option of using a combination of already existing blocks and raw resources to complete a ship.

    Basically, let's take the resource calculator MSCC - Megacrafter127's Ship-Resource-Calculator made by Megacrafter127 a step further and put an option in the ini that allows players to put raw resources directly into a shipyard. If you're worried about this being OP, put in options that would make this slightly less efficient than crafting them.

    Solve the issue of huge ships being made absurdly quickly by implementing a time penalty. Maybe even allow factory enhancers to be attached to a shipyard to alleviate a bit of that penalty. Allow resources to be deposited in smaller batches, cutting down on overall construction time.

    This is just a quick solution I thought up for the problem of crafting being a brutally tedious and imprecise art form. At present, a massive ship requires having a slew of factories working with different amounts of enhancers to churn out hundreds of different block types in wildly different amounts.

    At present, crafting even a medium sized ship with a lot of detail can take hours, hours that you are forced to spend slaving over a complex network of factories instead of actually playing the game. Obviously nobody should be able to gobble up a planet and spit out a cruiser in 5 minutes, but restricting players' access to complex ships by imposing unnecessarily menial labor on them is just bad game design. There are other options.

    Edit:
    Mariux hit it right on the head with this I think.
    TLDR version:
    I am all for this idea, BUT I think people need to work for the solution to get it set up. How about we have a machine that creates recipes, and then another that uses those recipes to automatically create the items a shipyard (or factory) requests? Also, let's implement a good permission structure on storages since this might make it too easy for faction members to use up all the resources.

    Concerns:
    1. It is not realistic to have automation come at the cost of taking up more materials. It would discourage automation of large ships as well. I don't think this is the direction we want to go.
    2. If a shipyard can simply attach to factories, and items are automagically created, it would be too easy. People could simply go mine, and then build a ship in their shipyard. This does not reward thinking. Hard work though it may be, there is no challenge.

    Suggested Implementation:
    1. Add new block types to supplement the existing factory and shipyard system.
    A. "Configuration Copier" - This machine can be connected to ONE factory. You set the factory to create an item, connect the copier, and have the copier create a recipe for that item.
    B. "The Controller" - This machine uses recipes from a copier to produce items, using the factory it is connected it. It can also pull items upon demand from other storages and other controllers and can control a shipyard (more on that later).​

    2. Allow manual operation of these machines, in addition to automation.

    3. Allow shipyards and factories to connect to a controller. If a recipe exists in a controller, the shipyard or factory will attempt to pull the items out (or have them created).

    4. Allow controllers to give priority to storages, factories, and other controllers.
    Example: A shipyard is set to pull from a controller. That controller is connected to a factory AND a storage, set to pull from storage FIRST, before using the factory.
    Example 2: A faction may set up personal controllers for each member. Those controllers would first pull from a person's personal storage, then from a personal factory.

    5. Allow a controller to connect TO a shipyard (as opposed to a shipyard connecting to the controller). It would then behave just like a shipyard. You could load designs, test them, edit them, ect. But, here's where things get interesting. Instead of the shipyard pulling from it's sources, the controller PUSHES items TO the shipyard. The shipyard would use the controller's resources only. The shipyard would need to have a generic "Unload current design" button added to unload designs loaded from other controllers.
    Example: Every member in a faction has a controller that is connected to the same shipyard. Everyone can use the shipyard, but can only use their own personal resources when building ships.

    6. Allow controllers, storages, and shipyards to have owners and faction permissions. This would be similar to how a shop works. Founders of a faction would always be able to change the settings.
    Example: A controller is set to only it's owner to access it. It pulls items from a personal factory and personal storages.

    7. Allow permissions to be set based on WHO is using a machine or controller.
    Example: A controller allows rank 3 or higher members to use it. This controller is connected to 2 storages. One storage is set to allow rank 3+, while the other, rank 1+. The controller is set to pull from the rank 3 storage and then rank 1 storage. If a rank 3 member attempts to pull a certain item out, and that item is NOT in the rank 3 storage, but IS in the rank 1 storage, the operation will fail. However, if a rank 1 member attempts to pull that item out, then the controller will pull from the rank 1 storage. As a player progresses in a faction, their access to shared resources can increase automatically with their rank changes.

    8. Allow controllers to be turned ON or OFF, manually or through logic, like item pulling works on a storage.

    A few notes:
    I realize that some of the functionality may are redundant. There can be two ways to do the same thing. This is intentional to allow variability and complexity in configuration. These are part of what is fun about setting up production systems. It allow communication and coordination. This is what sets StarMade apart from MineCraft, and my idea apart from the ME Machine of Applied Energistics.

    Thank you for your time, thoughts are welcome, as always. :)
     
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    Benevolent27

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    Rule of thumb: if it's tl;dr, it's probably too complex for a sandbox game. Broad strokes, please.
    I appreciate your input, but to each his or her own. I will add a synopsis to the top, giving the general overview of the idea, and also edit my post to trim the fat. :)

    But, to make my case for longer posts, have you read any wiki on any video game? Just for power reactors in StarMade, there is a ton of info, and for good reason. What I am suggesting is a more complicated design change, so I do not think fleshing it out was a bad choice. But I do recognize that you are right, I did not have a compelling opening that would engage the reader and make them want to read the details.

    I also feel I should mention that if I were to do a writeup on StarMade's existing mechanics, it would be 50 pages long. This does not mean StarMade is horribly complicated, it just means writing out the details is long.
     
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    i dont really understand, can you explain better?
    It would be like a supply conveyor that takes reasources from storages or makes factories create them to give them to another block.
    My first post might explain it better:
    I think a way to reduce lag with it would be to have a new block that would act as a "conductor" block. Slave it to a storage, factory, shipyard, shop, or any block with an inventory and slave a factory to the conductor(Storage>Conductor>Factories or storages<---Notice the plural!).

    The conductor would have a setting like AI, and would have these things:
    A dropdown with "maintain"(keep x amount constantly in master slave), "supply"(give master slave any items it requires[as with shipyards or factories]), and "give"(give master slave x amount every tick seconds if it can).

    A variable number input for the x in the settings above

    A variable number input for the seconds between ticks in the give setting, and maybe also the tick on which maintain and supply check values.

    An on/off toggle that could be activated by logic.

    Maintain setting would be for always having a spare 10,000 shield blocks no matter what, or keep a certain stock of blocks in your store.

    Supply would be sorta be for this thread, it could be used to automate colored advanced armor/multilevel crafting recipies and building ships a lot easier.

    Give would allow role play and faction settings where you could have shops that would slowly regenerate, role play reasource gatherers, investments, and giving new faction members a small amount of stuff every day, without you and them having to be on.

    If not connected to a conductor, the storage makes no big calculations.

    My 33 lines:)!

    Edit:love the "about" giph by the way HolyCookie! Good luck with the council!
    The conductor would set the crafting recipe on the factories and turn them on and off(and, if it requests 3 grey hull but you have 20 enhanncers, temporarily not use enhancers to avoid overstacking blocks), but it wouldn't be done in an instant.
     

    Ithirahad

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    dunno, having factory enhancers as upgrades would be okay too right? xD I always try to come up with the least amount of work for the dev team, this way they can put as much work into the awesome features that need more time. I guess from here on schema will create its plan. I do agree, having upgrades cost credits is boring, luckily they've never done that.
    Either option would be the same amount of work, and using a new block would be less confusing than using factory enhancers.

    In either case I find this approach to be a bit overcomplicated. Have shipyards assemble the stuff from raw materials, but make it inefficient block-wise, and have a non-reduceable time to build a ship determined based on how much stuff it costs.
     
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    Either option would be the same amount of work, and using a new block would be less confusing than using factory enhancers.

    In either case I find this approach to be a bit overcomplicated. Have shipyards assemble the stuff from raw materials, but make it inefficient block-wise, and have a non-reduceable time to build a ship determined based on how much stuff it costs.
    I feel like it would be better to balance it with time than having it be less efficient blockwise. That's just what I think.
     
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    I feel like it would be better to balance it with time than having it be less efficient blockwise. That's just what I think.
    Why it would be less efficient blockwise
    Well, the blueprint reader was made by an inventor from an America colony somewhere in space, they use feet and pounds and miles and stuff. scientists from European colonies combined the shipyard and the blueprint reader for the ultimate ship production. The problem was, Europe uses the metric system (meter, kilo, litre etc.) when they combined the 2 things, a mistake was made with converting the units. Because of this, producing your ship needs a few more resources.

    Sounds like a good reason for it to be that way :D besides, nobody likes mindless waiting (time will be long anyways it would be the equivalent of factories time) (again only my opinion)
     
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    In either case I find this approach to be a bit overcomplicated. Have shipyards assemble the stuff from raw materials, but make it inefficient block-wise, and have a non-reduceable time to build a ship determined based on how much stuff it costs.
    But that would just be one block doing everything! I'd rather have a conveyorlike system set up needing a little assembler plant building than just a single block. Most everything is better when block based:schema::).

    As longs it's not to complicated, I'd really like to see the cosmetic and roleplay ideas you can come up with in block based systems, and just seeing the ore turn into capsules, capsules into systems, armor, and ingots, to make a ship and maintain supplies.
     
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    This would work brilliantly with my AI Fleets and RTS Elements idea (link in my sig). Basically, YES PLEASE since it makes the act of producing ships that much more streamlined.
     

    Lecic

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    I think I'd prefer if we could just have shipyards tell factories what to make.
     
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    I think I'd prefer if we could just have shipyards tell factories what to make.
    There's nothing to say that that couldn't also be the case, and in fact, that would probably be a great feature in addition to the OP.
     

    Ithirahad

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    I think I'd prefer if we could just have shipyards tell factories what to make.
    Sounds like more effort and worse performance (unless abstraction is used) for basically the same effect. I mean, unless factories got actual visuals or something, but things having actual visuals and looking awesome seems to be Space Engineers and Interstellar Rift's territory, not "performance über alles" StarMade. (meanwhile StarMade's server performance is still a joke the second there are more than 20-30 people on, but that's a rant for another day)
     
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