Punch-through & Missiles

[CleanRabbit]

I was messing around with different weapon combinations for a missile launcher to replace an old one that wasn't very good before anyway. What I really wanted was a lock-on missile that would pretty much 1-hit a small to medium fighter (which is what this ship is designed to counter at 150 long, 50 wide, 30 high).

While switching between different effects during testing (against Asteroids, Planets and test ships such as Isanths), I found the Punch Through effect far better than any other, even the Explosive effect, because it appears to make the blast radius substantially larger than any other!

Where the Explosive Effect would add a specific amount to the blast radius and just vaporize everything in that radius, Punch Through just keeps expanding it until there's not enough damage to destroy any more. Between 100% Punch-Through and 100% Explosive, I saw at least a 25% increase in blast radius using Punch Through.

Has anyone else noticed this? Or am I just seeing strange things?
Additionally, what are your thoughts on a Missile / Pulse(100%) / PunchThrough(100%) configuration? Reload is a pain but I find the damage is entertainingly awesome.

 

[Equilibrium21]

Haven't really messed with missiles as weapons systems, but i think it's just a feature rather than a bug.

 

[AndyP]

It is a feature of that effect.

Any projectile with for example 250 damage, hitting a 100hp block, would have 'wasted' 150 damage.
Punch through is designated to 'just subtract' the first hit and take the damage into the next block.

Together with missiles this effect is really a high power one, yes.
As missiles have explosive effects built in, they don't benefit from explosive that much as a beam or cannon would.

- Andy

 

[Rhyssia]

A few updates ago I tried missiles with punch through, the results were terrible. Mostly because I had a huge bug or glitch where when I hit something with the missiles, a large cube of what I hit would be cloned and diagonally adjacent to the hole I just created. All invincible blocks too.

 

[AndyP]

Rhyssia yes, this was a known issue.
Bug #439 - Ghosted sections of ship after missile strike
Currently it is stated to be fixed, but needs some more tests to confirm that.

- Andy

 

[Rhyssia]

I'll actually start taking a look at that now then! Thank you!

 

[NeonSturm]

I would like an easier description ingame what something does.
How much the radius is increased or range of fire... It is difficult to figure that out

The balance problem is that explosion on non-explosive weaponry (non-pulse, non-missile ones) is far less effective than punch-through on explosive stuff.

With a punch-through beam and pulse-slave it is very easy to cut power-lines and the other's weapon systems. Maybe too easy.
A dual setup with amc+pulse for shield knockout and such a weapon is not very balanced.

 

[Rhyssia]

NeonSturm Beam/Pulse weapons take a pretty long time to recharge at the moment. That and you have a range of 500m. Also, not nearly as OP as a Beam/AMC/Stop weapon. It's all in the setup.

 

[Depriest]

Huh, that's the opposite from what I have been getting. Punch through vs Explosive for me shows explosive giving a better result with a large AOE. Punch-through got a penetration of around 8 blocks where as explosive got around 11 blocks of penetration.



Tested with Missile/Pulse/explosive vs Missile/Pulse/Punch-through.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=287250891

On the other hand, when I use punch-through with AMC weapons with a high damage value they have a tendency to punch clean through most ships and structures I am firing on.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Yeah punch-through is far superior than any other hull damaging effect, it has no limitations while pierce and explosive are very limited (cannons destroy 6 blocks max and beams are a little more effective due to their multiple pulses).

http://starmadedock.net/threads/effects-large-cannons-favor-punch-through-balance-concerns.1448/

I'm also not sure punch-through should simply extend the damage radius for missiles. That's what the explosive effect is meant for (although being less effective at it.) We shouldn't have multiple effects doing the same thing. In my mind punch-through should change the missiles into dealing damage in a more cylindrical fashion so they dig deeper into the hull of a ship as apposed to a bigger radius. Pierce missiles could pierce several layers and then detonate inside of a ship.

 

[CleanRabbit]

Nice idea Sven_The_Slayer , or perhaps it simply shouldn't detonate on the surface but rather destroy the first couple of blocks like a punch-through AMC, then explode, causing damage to internal components but less so to the hull.

Depriest, I'll re-run my tests to see if they come out like yours.

 

[Terramort]

Hmm, for missiles, it would seem that Punch-Through should have forward-facing cone blast radius (i.e. shaped charge), and Pierce would penetrate a few layers before detonating in the normal fashion. The Explosive would naturally increase the blast radius of the missiles. This would give each one a job (PT-smaller total blast radius, meant for penetrating deep critical systems // Pierce-mass destruction of sub-hull systems // Explosive-largest radius, meant for mass hull destruction)

 

[CleanRabbit]

Terramort you've clearly given this a lot more thought than I did, and I like the conclusions you've drawn!
I'd love to see that type of end system in place.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Hmm, for missiles, it would seem that Punch-Through should have forward-facing cone blast radius (i.e. shaped charge), and Pierce would penetrate a few layers before detonating in the normal fashion. The Explosive would naturally increase the blast radius of the missiles. This would give each one a job (PT-smaller total blast radius, meant for penetrating deep critical systems // Pierce-mass destruction of sub-hull systems // Explosive-largest radius, meant for mass hull destruction)

Basically what I've been saying just "cone" instead of my idea of a cylindrical shaped damage


http://starmadedock.net/threads/punch-through-missiles.2019/#post-29520

'In my mind punch-through should change the missiles into dealing damage in a more cylindrical fashion so they dig deeper into the hull of a ship as apposed to a bigger radius. Pierce missiles could pierce several layers and then detonate inside of a ship.'

http://starmadedock.net/threads/eff...nch-through-balance-concerns.1448/#post-23265

'I thought that punch could be like a "shaped charge" and instead of dealing damage in a sphere it does so more in a cylinder shape so the damage is applied deeper into a ship. Peirce could turn missiles into "bunker busters" so that they detonate slightly inside of the impact zone instead of directly on the surface.'

 

[CleanRabbit]

*nods*
Can't argue with you. +1 for you two having similar minds!

 

[Keptick]

I have a proto ship equipped with pulse missiles that do 10 million damage each. I should try it out with the effect XD

 

[Terramort]

10 million damage... does that mean with PT effect on, the explosion would keep eating blocks until ALL the damage was spent?

 

[Keptick]

10 million damage... does that mean with PT effect on, the explosion would keep eating blocks until ALL the damage was spent?

Yep, the best part is that it comes in salvos of 8 missiles :P

 

[CleanRabbit]

Yep, the best part is that it comes in salvos of 8 missiles :p

How big is this ship?!!?

 

[NuclearFun]

Hi!

I am a little bit confused...
After i red your post i did my own tests, but i did not get to the same result as you: Punch Through on missiles just did not change anything while explosive effect enhanced the radius significantly.