Power 2.0 Stations!

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    For the new "power 2.0", everyone (including me) has been testing out ship designs, but nobody seems to have properly looked at stations yet (or at least I haven't noticed any forum posts), so I thought I'd try some station building!

    My first step was to find a nice point in space where the edge of 4 sectors meet, and plonk down four stations.

    It's very tricky to get the individual station blocks to line up nicely - my tip is to point your camera straight down, try to line yourself up in the "X and Z" directions, then use "strafe left/right" and "strafe up/down" to change your position (without touching camera angle) while creating the station blocks. This at least ensures that the Y coord for each station is the same.

    Here's a picture:



    My next step was to put build blocks and faction modules on each station, and mark one of them as "special" (by putting a light on its build block) to avoid confusion while I'm building. The special station will become the exterior shell that protects all the inner stations.

    Then I slapped a reactor on each station and setup the chambers, so that:

    • Station 1 = warp interdiction 4, warp interdiction distance 2 (total 100% of RC)
    • Station 2 = warpgate distance 2, warpgate free target (total 90% of RC)
    • Station 3 = recon usage permanent, recon long range distance 2, recon strength 5 (total 87.5% RC)
    • Station 4 = factory bake time 2, factory power efficiency 2 (total 100% RC)
    Here's another screenshot:



    Note that it's nothing fancy - it's just a temporary experiment to see how stations work.

    After this I did some testing, and found out that I can't get warp interdiction or recon to work on stations. You used to be able to hook up the computer/s to logic blocks, but now that the computers are gone it's completely borked. I also realised I never actually tried warp interdiction on a ship either, so (while trying to figure out if I'd just set it up wrong) I tried it on a ship and found that warp interdiction is also broken for ships (on a ship, I can get the jump inhibitor to charge, but can't get it to do anything else).

    Starmade is also still glitchy at sector boundaries (but that's easy enough to work around - e.g. just use transporters if you ever need to cross the boundaries), and it's a little painful when using cargo storage to extend your inventory (you get "cargo is too far" message when you're standing right next to the cargo block because the game thinks you're in a different sector and doesn't care about actual distance).

    Apart from those problems; the new stations look quite promising!
     

    Skwidz

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    Why did you build four stations each in a sector? I thought you could build them close together without needing sector boundaries. If it's temporary you could just get rid of the chambers you're testing and place the next ones. It's not a lot of work.
     
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    Why did you build four stations each in a sector? I thought you could build them close together without needing sector boundaries. If it's temporary you could just get rid of the chambers you're testing and place the next ones. It's not a lot of work.
    The game doesn't let you create a station in a sector that already has a station (you get a "Cannot spawn here. Only 1 station(s) per sector allowed!" error message).

    EDIT: Ah - there's a "ALLOWED_STATIONS_PER_SECTOR" setting (which is set to 1 by default) in "server.cfg". Using 4 sectors (or 8 sectors if you're kinky) works regardless of how a server is configured.
     

    Skwidz

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    The game doesn't let you create a station in a sector that already has a station (you get a "Cannot spawn here. Only 1 station(s) per sector allowed!" error message).
    Oh, right. I was thinking about star systems :p
     

    Sachys

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    I cannot quite fathom why you have done this - care to shed any light?

    What i can tell you (from my own experience) with stations is, that they are even more underpowered with the new power system - some basic station setup styles (that previosuly worked rather well - even under attack) are now nullified entirely as their physical design is incompatible. The future of starmade seems to have no stations.
     
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    I cannot quite fathom why you have done this - care to shed any light?
    For a normal station you're limited to 100% of RC, and can't (e.g.) have full factory bonuses and warpgate free target at the same time. I wanted something that looks like a single station but bypasses these limits.
     
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    Sachys

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    For a normal station you're limited to 100% of RC, and can't (e.g.) have full factory bonuses and warpgate free target at the same time. I wanted something that looks like a single station but bypasses these limits.
    So the rest of my post stands true: stations are now dead.

    Edit: Thanks for responding though - really wasnt clear to me from your OP. Have a goodun! :)
     
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    This is a pretty clever idea imo for getting around the restrictions!
    I've never consided using a sector corner before.

    The fact that players do this to get around the Reactor Limits says a lot about the system imo.
    Props for the very creative and intersting idea! certaitnyl will be looking at it in the future :3


    A lot of MP servers I played on only allowed one station per sector, so this is a pretty cool work around.
     
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    Sachys

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    this is a pretty cool work around.
    yet will come with similar issues to multi-km long titans crossing sector borders as with power 1.0 - further proving the broken-ness of 2.0 ("if this is what has to be done to get a working station...")
     
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    yet will come with similar issues to multi-km long titans crossing sector borders as with power 1.0 - further proving the broken-ness of 2.0 ("if this is what has to be done to get a working station...")
    Well said.
    I would much rather see chambers be attachted directly to the system instead of imbedded in the reactor imo.
    As long as you have the space and power, you should beable to outfitt a Station how you see fit.
     

    Ithirahad

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    So the rest of my post stands true: stations are now dead.

    Edit: Thanks for responding though - really wasnt clear to me from your OP. Have a goodun! :)
    Anything a station could do before, a station can do without any chambers whatsoever. The only unfortunate changes for stations are shielding and the power system itself.
     

    Sachys

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    Anything a station could do before, a station can do without any chambers whatsoever. The only unfortunate changes for stations are shielding and the power system itself.
    Which makes them utterly utterly broken with certain design styles (as stated earlier). I'll grab some screens in a couple of days to illustrate what I mean a little more.

    Edit: Also, Messy Yholemas everybody!
     
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    And i do hope nobody who tries this innovative thing is going to complain about anything not working properly for those 4 stations sitting on 4 Sector borders.
     
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    the next thing that absolutly kills any Stations that are no hombases is that the stations shields will not protect any ship from damage thats not fully covered undr the stations "Sield Bubble" wich is i think absolutly ridiculus...
    (this info was provided by LanCake in SMD chat)
    who the hell would want to dock on any space station if the own shields go down on docking and practically the smallest pirate fighter can do damage to the ship...6

    solution for this could probably be "for stations only" that the shielded rail expands the shields on the docked entity regardless of the shield bubble.. (this should not include Turret Axis)
    or that the shields Bubble scales much much Larger for stations to cover any docking ships.

    but we might never see these things done so who cares...
     
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    Good point about Docking Antikristianos , I certiantly hadn't considered how docked ships would fare.
    Looks like the shield system will need some further work
     
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    the next thing that absolutly kills any Stations that are no hombases is that the stations shields will not protect any ship from damage thats not fully covered undr the stations "Sield Bubble" wich is i think absolutly ridiculus...
    (this info was provided by LanCake in SMD chat)
    who the hell would want to dock on any space station if the own shields go down on docking and practically the smallest pirate fighter can do damage to the ship...6

    solution for this could probably be "for stations only" that the shielded rail expands the shields on the docked entity regardless of the shield bubble.. (this should not include Turret Axis)
    or that the shields Bubble scales much much Larger for stations to cover any docking ships.

    but we might never see these things done so who cares...
    As far as I know; shields currently have the opposite problem - for any shield that is worth having (especially on stations where you don't have to care about mass or manoeuvrability) the shield bubble ends up so large that it'll probably fill multiple entire sectors. ;)
     
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    As far as I know; shields currently have the opposite problem - for any shield that is worth having (especially on stations where you don't have to care about mass or manoeuvrability) the shield bubble ends up so large that it'll probably fill multiple entire sectors. ;)
    i really doubt that... as soon as the diminishing return kicks in the bubble enlarging is way smaller.

    dont know if they changed that much again but the bubbles did not get that large witch incerasing regen.
     
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    i really doubt that... as soon as the diminishing return kicks in the bubble enlarging is way smaller.

    dont know if they changed that much again but the bubbles did not get that large witch incerasing regen.
    I tested - you're right - as power consumption increases, shield bubble size increases relatively quickly up to about 250 meter radius, but after that bubble size grows a lot slower until you reach about 500 meter radius where a huge increase in power consumption adds up to almost no increase in radius at all.

    There's also another factor that I've overlooked. For a 400 meter ship you only need (slightly more than) a 200 meter shield bubble radius because the ship can be in the middle of the bubble; but for a station you can't easily put a ship in the middle of the bubble (because the station and its shield generators get in the way) so you end up needing a bubble that is probably 3 times larger (e.g. 600 meter radius bubble for a 400 meter ship). I think it's possible to work around this problem with a "torus generator" (a large donut of shield generators so that the ship can be docked in the middle of the bubble; but that would be ugly/awkward for other reasons.
     
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    yes. i think the easyest way to fix this problem for this problem is to just check if the rail is in the bubble and cover anything docked in the full shield regardles of its bubble.
     
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    I tested - you're right - as power consumption increases, shield bubble size increases relatively quickly up to about 250 meter radius, but after that bubble size grows a lot slower until you reach about 500 meter radius where a huge increase in power consumption adds up to almost no increase in radius at all.
    Shield Radius = 25 + 5 * (Recharge Block Count^0.3)

    So Block Count to cover a 8km sector would be around ~5M blocks. Or 500k mass in rechargers.