[Philoshopy] Why do we keep trying to build something pretty ?

[Sgtwisky]

I dunno... a literal flying trash can COULD provide some good "lols" provided it was made by a good artist...

If only there were a "They are equally important" option. I don't understand why one MUST be more important.

I mean, think about the cars we drive. If all anyone wanted was something functional/effective then there would be ONE clear model which most avarage people would want. BUT... you can line up many cars, which all are VERY similar in their function/effectiveness for their role and many people would decide based off which one looked like something they would want. People want something that they can look at and enjoy with their eyes. Many people are willing to sacrifice other things to have it too.

I think the same also applies in starmade. Being a sandbox lends itself to players that want to customize what they have. If a player doesn't really care about looks they are in no way prevented from just flying a system block. That is with the exception of some servers with the "No Doombrick" rule and some factions that have the same rules. Those rules are because many people find plain cubes and ships that look like little effort or thought went into designing them should not represent the group they belong too.

SO to answer the OP's question:
"was kinda Wondering, why do we, as players of starmade, try hardly to make ships and stations look pretty ?"

Answer: "Why not?" and "Because we can."

That's the only real reason. Why do some people buy cars that are blue instead of red? The color doesn't actually change anything functional with the car. So what does it matter? Well it mattered to that person.

hum... I need to stop posting late at night, I tend to ramble too much XD

 

[nightrune]

A ship must have both. It must function and it must display its intentions to others. If that intention is to hide, and then fire so be it. If it is to be pink and soft and playful, then murder everything so be it. Generally, just have fun when you build, the other stuff will come.

 

[ZektorSK]

A ship must have both. It must function and it must display its intentions to others. If that intention is to hide, and then fire so be it. If it is to be pink and soft and playful, then murder everything so be it. Generally, just have fun when you build, the other stuff will come.

It can't have both... to have the best vizual you have to be entirelly focused on vizual... and if you want both, then you would have to cut off the vizual to actually have space for systems... and that would mean less beatufil ship, because you have to think on every thing : from thrusters, into mass..

 

[TheFakeMrTrump]

Anyone who actualy plays proper PVP will know that the ability to destroy, disable or otherwise eliminate an enemy vessel is FAR more important than a ship looking fancy.

The modern naval battleships are designed to destroy, not to look good, so some eyes they look good, but they were not designed for that, if you prioritise good looks over proper weapons and defences, you have already lost.

 

[Nauvran]

Anyone who actualy plays proper PVP will know that the ability to destroy, disable or otherwise eliminate an enemy vessel is FAR more important than a ship looking fancy.

The modern naval battleships are designed to destroy, not to look good, so some eyes they look good, but they were not designed for that, if you prioritise good looks over proper weapons and defences, you have already lost.

This is a videogame with spaceships made of blocks.
It doesnt really matter if your ship is pretty or not, in pvp, you're right about that but it is far more interesting to fight a pretty or awesome ship than fighting against some ugly pvp shoebox.

 

[Madman198237]

Zektor is incorrect with the absolute tradeoff. There's no absolute tradeoff. Perhaps, in using a shape other than a sphere or a cube or whatever works best with efficiency, you lose some combat potential. But making a great-looking ship does not necessarily mean that your weapons and power systems become inefficient and useless.

A well-flown good-looking ship will beat a clueless, skill-less noob's doomcube every time.

Unless of course it's a true heat-seeker spammer 2 kilometers wide that lags the game to a slideshow. That's different.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

(Reads title. Continues to read thread; hoping for true philosophical discussion. Face palms...)

To be honest, I never learned how to make a ship that isn't both combat/utility functional and aesthetically pleasing. It seems like a waste of everyone's time to build a 'brick' in a game that's based primarily in creativity.

That's not efficiency, it's laziness. The only people who do such a thing are the ones who want to win PVP at any cost because they lack the skill and patience to do literally anything else.

@ ZektorSK, I don't know if this thread is about you lamenting your supposed limited building capabilities but you were making some good progress, the last time you and I spoke. What changed? Did you run out of steam and give up? Stop trying to explain away or justify poor build quality and just practice until you get it right. I told you I'd help you...

 

[Bladeriker]

The issue that lies herein, is that beauty is subjective and based on the likes and dislikes of the viewer and the creator.

There are some very basic designs that I find pleasing, and some very busy designs I find ugly, but the converse is also true. There is also the idea of what the creator/artist is going for. Example: Flying bricks (Ships that resemble actual bricks) what is the purpose, why did this designer go for this? On the other hand Ships with lots of hull detail, again what is the reason for this, Why was it selected, and so forth.

Function is also decided by the creator, the only difference is that someone who designs a ship that is supposed to fill (x) roll, and that ship fails to, or is not able to effectively, will then either have to redesign it, or the community will just not use it.

All that really matters is that the creator enjoys their creation, as Starmade is not only a Multiplayer game, but a Sandbox for single players as well.

 

[KiloZulu]

I was kinda Wondering, why do we, as players of starmade, try hardly to make ships and stations look pretty ? Do we even need something to look good ? Why is vizual more importnat to us then effectiveness ?
Does it make difference, if we have ship like it was made by artist, or a normal cube ?

Leave opinions below !

I need something that can hold my attention, and just slapping cubes together for firepower doesn't do it. I also want my ships to be comfortable and provide amenities since they'll be my in-game home. That's not to say that a ship's appearance trumps its effectiveness. The two aspects go hand-in-hand, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to use a ship that isn't effective, but it must also be attractive.

Does it make a difference? If you base it on block count, certainly you can make something that is more combat effective if you forego styling, but that's just the thing - block count is the real deciding factor. If I make a ship using 10,000 blocks of pure destruction, that's still not going to save me when someone pulls up in a ship with 100k blocks that looks cool, too. The deciding factor in this game is the level of patience each player has for ship design. I don't have enough to make titans, so I don't bother trying to compete - I just make ships meet my personal needs, instead.

 

[Madman198237]

Just going to point out that you can compete with a dozen smaller warships and take out a warship 10x as large as any individual ship....easily.

So no patience? Build a fleet of small ships. It's what I'm gonna do...mostly because I don't have the patience or ideas for larger warships.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

I'll expand on both of your comments. There is a recurring theme with regard to most players' style of play. It goes:
- gather as many resources as you can
- build big ships
- kill little ships
- complain that no one will fight them, complain about server lag, and claim that the game is too easy, boring, etc.

With regard to PVP; StarMade has become a game of size and attrition rather than skill and design. It seems as though most players simply do not know (nor do they care to know) how to handle a challenge; thus, they race towards capitals at break-neck speed, then leave them docked when they find out that no one wants to fight them. I met someone who claimed he has never gotten in a fight because because his ship was to big. He doesn't play much anymore. I wonder why...

Personally, I like having smaller ships. It turns every station assault into a boss battle with an 'arcade shooter' element. It also make fighters and drones relevant. On the other hand; I say +1 to bringing a fleet of combat optimized frigates fitted with AMS turrets and anti-shield weapons when going up against a titan. It definitely raises a few eyebrows.

 

[Lukwan]

I'll expand on both of your comments. There is a recurring theme with regard to most players' style of play. It goes:
- gather as many resources as you can
- build big ships
- kill little ships
- complain that no one will fight them, complain about server lag, and claim that the game is too easy, boring, etc.

LOL, thanks doctor, you have just summed up the inane logic used by Starmade's 'power-players' (air-quotes).

The sad thing about this cycle is that it is self-inflicted. I have seen this played out on MP servers and on the forums: people being sandbagged by their own poorly chosen ideology. If your goals are inappropriate they will lead you towards predictable dead-ends. This ideology says 'I must crush all before me to demonstrate my worth'. There are many goals to choose from, so why does it have to be this?

I prefer to choose goals that are more likely to generate personal happiness or that will lead to improved relationships, learning new build-techniques or increase my reputation. Dominance at all costs is not necessarily the best paradigm to achieve these various goals.

 

[Sgtwisky]

A good point lukwan. The interesting thing is... You could actualy dominate easier with fleets of smaller well built ships as opposed to titans now. People just don't seem to want to bother building a fleet when they can make their huge titan.

The funny thing is that their lust for power has clouded their vision and they can no longer think of alternate methods of conquering. So they use outdated methods. But whats that saying? It goes something like "Armies always fight the last war". Which means you always use the same tactics that worked last time until you are forced into something else by the opposition finding a counter to what you had previously thought was the best method.

I am sure as we get better fleet management, more commands, and when fleets get the ability to act in unloaded sectors, some people will begin changing their tactics. Which will then force others to change theirs.

BUT, it does get harder to be effective AND pretty at the same time at lower scales. But its damn satisfying when you do manage it ! Something I learned with the Drone Wars Competition.

 

[Madman198237]

A note, Sgt. Victorious armies always fight the last war. The loser looks for another way to fight...and can often win because of it.

 

[Master_Artificer]

I remember when we set a fleet of 12 little ships at an enemy homebase and they undocked a titan to fight them... then almost lost the titan before we felt bad and redirected the small fleet into the sun.

(Also a funny observation, my small ship keeps utterly destroying every replacement I have made to phase it out when I test them against eachother, so maybe the meta of starmade is that a few 2k mass ships properly kitted out are op)

But building small ships came out of us experiancing that cycle too many times, then realising we needed to go agaisnt the curve and bring 4-6 (at a minimum) smaller ships to fights and challenege the people in big ships to fights. Problem is pilots (made easier with fleets) and coordination when if you bring a big ship you can set up logic swarms and not worry about lag. Then again, all your swarmers will concentrate on exactly one target that is the closest and overkill it before seeking a new target instead of spreading out damage equally, probably why we have had such sucess.


Anyways, looking pretty does not mean ineffecent. Lots of interiors if placed in the center of your ship and not in the front and close to the outer hull can be ineffecent (impromptu spaced armor ftw) and cost you a fight, but pretty exteriors usually dont affect ship effectivness.

 

[sayerulz]

A note, Sgt. Victorious armies always fight the last war. The loser looks for another way to fight...and can often win because of it.

TBH, losing armies sometimes fight the last war as well. remember the Gustav gun? That thing would have been great in WWI, when it was all about trenches and fortifications. But when the build it in WWII, it was almost useless because armies were moving around so fast they has to constantly pick it up and set it down somewhere else.

 

[Sgtwisky]

A note, Sgt. Victorious armies always fight the last war. The loser looks for another way to fight...and can often win because of it.

TY for the correct version of the saying. Couldn't remember it for the life of me lol.

 

[Madman198237]

That's not really a saying, but a theme through history.

 

[Master_Artificer]

Yay we have reached philosophy time!

 

[TwoNiner]

I'll expand on both of your comments. There is a recurring theme with regard to most players' style of play. It goes:
- gather as many resources as you can
- build big ships
- kill little ships
- complain that no one will fight them, complain about server lag, and claim that the game is too easy, boring, etc.

With regard to PVP; StarMade has become a game of size and attrition rather than skill and design. It seems as though most players simply do not know (nor do they care to know) how to handle a challenge; thus, they race towards capitals at break-neck speed, then leave them docked when they find out that no one wants to fight them. I met someone who claimed he has never gotten in a fight because because his ship was to big. He doesn't play much anymore. I wonder why...

Personally, I like having smaller ships. It turns every station assault into a boss battle with an 'arcade shooter' element. It also make fighters and drones relevant. On the other hand; I say +1 to bringing a fleet of combat optimized frigates fitted with AMS turrets and anti-shield weapons when going up against a titan. It definitely raises a few eyebrows.
View attachment 27867

The legion eats big ships for breakfast . A single Titan can never match a fleet of well coordinated well built smaller ships.