not feeling like building atm.

[Gasboy]

Did you tried to build really small vessels ?

Yes.

With the 1m = 1 bloc, it's hard to make things interesting without ending up building something bulky, it's the same mechanic with bigger ships as you'll be forced to deal with heatboxes that will need to be filled with chambers of different types. If i want to make my ship thin with wedge shapes you can't, as it is using the ship boundaries.

I know it's difficult to build small ships, trust me.

However, the new system will need LESS blocks, thus LESS space, in total. If I can pull all of the power and power regen out of that little orange fighter, and replace it with something that takes up less space, heat zone included, I'm all for it.

I am in Raiben's court though, I would prefer that the power overhaul make power more interesting. The heat idea could be interesting, however my issue with the proposed system is that it isn't different. You're still taking some blocks, putting them into some pattern, and blammo, power system. The numbers for the old power system could simply be changed so that they generate more power, and add in a heat mechanic. It's nice that it takes up less space, but it's not really different.

But I have absolutely no problem with a system that takes up less space than it does now.

I can even make some examples that are worst, for example if i want to build a cross style ship (if you look at it from the front to give you an idea). The boundaries is a big box but in fact you can only use the 4 wings of the cross to fill with chambers and systems, leaving most of the heatbox empty, resulting in a useless and inefficient ship. Even for someone that just want a good looking ship using a cross shape he'll be missing so much space for the chamber that someone with a more bulky build not even well made will simply outpower him by far in everything.

I'm not claiming that the proposed system is perfect. It's a start. Can you improve upon it within the confines of the proposal? Can you improve upon it outside the confines of the proposal.

I don't think the system as proposed is unworkable, it's simply not really interesting.

 

[Edymnion]

So far what I'm seeing is "This is going to kill creativity by making unrealistic ships unrealistic!"

Well, yeah. You're building a working piece of machinery, not a flying art project.

Is this going to single handedly kill PvP? Of course not, thats just silly. As long as two players can pilot ships and shoot at each other there will be PvP. If anything, I would see this as promoting more smart PvP as you now have a choice of targets, both to aim at and to defend. Discrete systems means you have to actually stop and think about what you're doing instead of just doing brute force alpha strikes for pure block destruction. You can still do that, but it'll be doing things the hard way.

As for "catering to PvP or RP", I would say its been fairly evenly split, with a bit more given to the RP'ers in terms of block variety. But we've also had things like the grappling beam and the torch added for boarding. In the end though, I go back to the car analogy. We're still building the engines to get the cars moving, and you're complaining that not enough attention is being given to making them race cars. We need ships to FUNCTION before we can really start worrying about PvP specifics.

As for the "kills the creativity" part, I'm an oldschool pen and paper RPG'er. You know, Dungeons and Dragons stuff. I have seen over and over again that more options do NOT increase creativity. True creativity usually comes from being given a more limited set of tools and learning how to make them work for what you want. Sure, you can't make a 3 block thick flying manhole cover with this new system (or maybe you can, we don't really know yet), but who cares? The current system really does promote shoeboxes and flying Pringles cans as default ship shapes. Long and thin are usually the name of the game due to reactor lines/boxes, weapon layouts, etc. That is a limitation to creativity as well. Sure, skilled builders can work around that to get power lines down in the weirdest of shapes while still being very efficient, just like I'm sure once the new system is out skilled builders will learn to adapt it as well.

Its not the end of PvP. Its not the end of creative RP. Its just going to be different. Embrace the change, get excited about building new and better things instead of lamenting on not being able to do the same old same old.

 

[Neon_42]

If this could be designed and implemented in a few weeks I'd be okay with it, but this team is slow to do anything. Until there is a design plan and a clear statement of how things will work there isn't really much of a point to designing new functional ships or refurbishing old ones. You'll have to do it all over again anyway. We're reduced to building ship shells as Edymnion suggested. Which is just a "shell" of the game at hand. The problem with this is that the shell of a ship fits the function of it. Now that ships won't function there isn't much of a point to playing.

 

[Drakkart]

Back that up with some examples then.

Also you don't see anything stupid about RPers complaining that pvpers are better at pvp then that's what we're doing and they aren't?

Again, this IS the end of pvp BUILDING if we can't create diverse systems anymore, whats the point? Its not exaggeration if its true,.

I did state it allready people which know how to optimize will be able to apply this skill on every system they encounter. and people which never learned it will always be inferiour... We do not really know the changes implications yet. yes i am with you it is again starmade going carebear route getting "dumbed down" but let us wait for the effect first before we give up on the devs sanity already...

I've done more than my fair share of PvP combat. I was there when Counter Strike became a thing. I was there for the beginning of WoW and EVE and LoL. I do get it. I can't really be arsed to do it any more, because it's too much time and I'm too old to have a good reflex twitch, but I do get it.

I love your point you are coming from knowing both sides for i also feel the age creepin up on me, which is why i love starmade as it's pvp is well competitive but not super hectic...

 

[Edymnion]

Now that ships won't function there isn't much of a point to playing.

Lets not grandstand here.

Ships still function. Your ships work just as well now as they did last week.

The only thing that has changed is the announcement that they're thinking about an overhaul in the indeterminate future.

If you really are going to stop playing because things might change at some point in the future, you really shouldn't be playing an alpha game in the first place. I can promise you if this doesn't change, something else will to invalidate how we build right now.

So build what you want for now, and when things change, rebuild later.

 

[Crashmaster]

Lets not grandstand here.

Welcome the Change

 

[Gasboy]

Now that ships won't function there isn't much of a point to playing.

Yeah, it sucked when the weapons changed and all the ships stopped working.

Oh wait.

And when they added <new thing here>, and everything stopped working.

Oh wait.

 

[Neon_42]

Yeah, it sucked when the weapons changed and all the ships stopped working.

Oh wait.

And when they added <new thing here>, and everything stopped working.

Oh wait.

You mistake my meaning sir. It means that I must wait to make new ships and stations and that building anything new is moot at this point because it will be obsolete later. Knowing this is a bummer.

 

[Gasboy]

You mistake my meaning sir. It means that I must wait to make new ships and stations and that building anything new is moot at this point because it will be obsolete later. Knowing this is a bummer.

Ah, gotcha. :P

But you don't have to wait. You can, at the very least, make shells. You can attempt to map out where the reactors will go and so on. Almost like a waiting game, how close can you get to the ship's required power in a guess? :P

 

[Edymnion]

You mistake my meaning sir. It means that I must wait to make new ships and stations and that building anything new is moot at this point because it will be obsolete later. Knowing this is a bummer.

Everything you build will become obsolete later. I don't understand how knowing specifically which part of it is going to become obsolete first changes anything.

 

[Crashmaster]

IMO hull and systems are interdependent and unfortunately I tend to build very slowly. It doesn't matter what becomes obsolete first but that 'later' may occur sooner, likely before a new ship is even finished requiring design changes that the partially finished project may not efficiently support without ruining it and therefore scuppering all the effort so far put into it.

I just finished a ship and have no new ideas so it's not that bad for me atm.

 

[Comradecolonel]

I can totally understand how anyone that enjoys tinkering is bummed right now. I'm a form follows function kinda guy. I can build things still but all my plans of finishing the fleet I was working on are out the window. So many design ideas I have on hold because I know that mechanics are just place holders now. Now I have to put almost everything on hold because almost everything is a place holder right now. This is just so we can get the "full game". It's been years so I think at least the building aspect should be down. That's mostly what the game is right now.

 

[El_Poulpy]

I know that feeling. I have it since they announced the crew quarter update.
I think they should know what crew should look like before brainstorming the new power system or think the two system at the same time.
I don't like their proposal that is, I think, too restrictive and force to have crew. They should make a system that permit to choose. I made a proposal of a system that do that and I hope it will help the brainstorming.

 

[Gasboy]

I'm thinking of reading over that entire, gigantic thread and posting a comprehensive list of ideas proposed by the community.

But that's going to take time. Maaaybe after work.

 

[kingreol]

I'd take the mtg anology. Specifically modern. But standard metagames to


Anyways it shouldn't stop hull design for say your fleets, or a good PvP hull. UNLESS the community speculates. If every system block gets take out for a different reworked system. Making hulls might not work if the new systems act like square pegs.....

Schema is toying with a change. It's not even the change. It's how he goes about it now that everyone knows systems will change... if within a month we get new power, thrusters, shields, all will be fine. If in 2 months we get just power, 2 months later shields. Etc... the community will shrink a whole lot... he almost has to deliver ai and fleet updates, along with something like fauna, and other space assets. Before power etc, it has to be fast given this is coming of the new year break. The playerbase isn't going to wait 4 months for this change just to build again

 

[Dvaren]

Lets not grandstand here.

Ships still function. Your ships work just as well now as they did last week.

I don't believe the point he was making was that he is no longer able to utilize his current lineup, but that the proposed changes are so vast in nature, and so unpredictable in the timing of their implementation, that any current or near future designs will likely be completely fruitless.

The only thing that has changed is the announcement that they're thinking about an overhaul in the indeterminate future.

This would only be true if utilization of current ships and stations were the only draw to this game. Ship building and design, for many, is by far the primary reason we are here. These potential changes, announced so early in their development, needlessly causes much hesitance in the building and design community. What are we to build or design? As frustrating as it may be, we have always risen to the challenge of retrofitting our ships as specific systems are changed or added....but....what are we to do when nearly all systems are changed? No retrofit would be worth the hassle, leaving us to twiddle our thumbs for an indefinite amount of time.

If you really are going to stop playing because things might change at some point in the future, you really shouldn't be playing an alpha game in the first place.

The "alpha" excuse is growing long in the tooth, and denigrating those who desire only to know the path forward, seems a fruitless endeavour.

I can promise you if this doesn't change, something else will to invalidate how we build right now.

It is not change that worries us, it is complete change, with no clear vision, and no timetable.

 

[NightFury76]

I've got no drive to work on my ships, but working on my planet plate station, layout, interior, hidden rail hangers, shipyards, factory floors are all still worth while tasks. and lets face it power systems on large stations can be just lumps of art deco.

What shits me is these texture changes too, as you select blocks for their colour or glow and to have them sometimes change completely......grrr

 

[KiloZulu]

i have to say these announcements of changes kinda make me go like *sigh* whatever i'll come back at 1.0 when stuff is finally set up and meant to stay. Am i alone with this? bothers me for i always had fun with tinkering in starmade.

I've actually been at that point since they removed docking boxes. Since they changed weapon systems. Since they split shields...
I can't help wanting to build, but it's all made me more realistic about what I build. I build now more to better my design skills than in the hope that anything is going to last into final play. What surprises me more than anything is that they keep doing things like the station and fleet contests. If anyone should know better, it should be the people who released the original Isanth.

 

[EricBlank]

To me its really most fun to build interesting vessels, and try to work in the components they'll need later. I actually save a copy of every ship with just the bare hull and maybe a small set of power, thrust and shield so I can maneuver it after spawning it. Then each game-breaking update I spawn in the hull when I'm ready to work on it, and install systems to fit what the current needs are. The biggest pain so far has been in updating ships designed for the old box-dimensions based docking, the new rails are so much more powerful than those old turds, like your core doesn't have to be in the center of that docking box.

There was also when we got ship structure and armor hit points. Before that if something bopped your core it was an instant k.o. but a lot of ships needed to be entirely reworked and I've built whole new designs where the core isn't in the core of the ship but in the cockpit with the pilot.

 

[Ghent96]

Schine devs, you need to listen to your community and wake up now, before you have only 10 fanboi players left and no more public servers being run.

When a pillar of the community sounds off like this, one who has done hundreds of videos and tutorials, and so many get behind him, you need to wake up and listen, or else risk killing your own game.
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I've actually been at that point since they removed docking boxes. Since they changed weapon systems. Since they split shields...
I can't help wanting to build, but it's all made me more realistic about what I build. I build now more to better my design skills than in the hope that anything is going to last into final play. What surprises me more than anything is that they keep doing things like the station and fleet contests. If anyone should know better, it should be the people who released the original Isanth.

You mean Zero_Sen from the Mushroom Fleet server? ....yeah... he quit about a year ago and only plays offline, occasionally, on an older version... Take a hint Schine

The contests are just a way to try to focus the masses and give them menial tasks to keep them busy and focused instead of complaining. There's been so many by this point, and the majority of submissions and even winners thrown away into the void. None will ever be used in the official, final version ;p Only by advocating for mod support and customization support can we get these & more back into the game. Also, only by keeping the devs on task towards finishing and fixing the game rather than tinkering and overhauling, can we actually get a game.