North American Sandbox Servers - NASS Main (Artificial Vanilla Config)

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    Imo, 8k sectors and 150m/s max speed works pretty well. We've had that for a long time on the server I frequent. For larger open space battles it doesn't cause too much server load when a few sectors are crossed. For dogfighting, we / I set up a + noentry + noexit sector that you gate into, then duke it out in whatever number or type of fighter / corvette you want. There's some bouncing, but not much.

    I suppose it could be a bit larger. GL with your experiments. "SCIENCE!"
     
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    MossyStone48

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    Thanks! Good to hear a report on one possible setup. No one else has reported back. Any attempts I've made end every time I set one up. I'm called away by work or some other distraction.
    Via Doomsider's Shadow Daemon we do have a dueling system that would allow folks to PvP in a similarly configured zone. It's undergoing a bit of a re-write just now.

    I'm also looking at the possibility of giving all weapons a mild stop buff and nerfiing ship mass and weapons computer count along with modules per group. The protocol for this was meant to curtail doomcubes aka death/d*ckbricks. I plan on sitting down and calculating the average ship mass including Titans in the CC. See if we can't find something reasonable.

    The new asteroids have been absolutely instrumental in my recent tweak concepts. We may yet find a configuration that allows for fair PvE and fully functional PvP. The answer lies within the stones.

    I have an insidious little trick up my sleeve for would-be griefers >:3
    Consider yourselves warnt.
     

    Lecic

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    nerfiing ship mass and weapons computer count along with modules per group. The protocol for this was meant to curtail doomcubes aka death/d*ckbricks. I plan on sitting down and calculating the average ship mass including Titans in the CC. See if we can't find something reasonable.
    I think this is a waste of your time. Doomcubes haven't been a real threat ever since we got the armor and HP systems.
     

    MossyStone48

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    There's several reasons that feature attracted my attention. There's more to my interest in that direction than stopping phantom d*ckbricks. I didn't say it had anything to do with doomcubes. I explained that the feature existed originally to deal with them. It's not even about griefing.

    If anything comes of it I'll make sure to include details in this thread.
    Right now it's just something being looked into. Just like sector size adjustments.
     
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    Az14el

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    Would the hard block cap talked about be via mass or via blocks?
    I find the distinction is pretty important now, as adv armor is heavy as hell and already sufficiently penalized by its own weight (imo)
     

    MossyStone48

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    probably by block of type count. let's say no more than 384 salvage blocks total and groups no bigger that 16. something along those lines. just change salvager with some other system adjust the number to something sane and either keep the groups small or ignore that entirely.
     

    Winterhome

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    if you do that, remember to remove the Vanilla Config tag from everything NASS related.
     
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    New probably by block of type count. let's say no more than 384 salvage blocks total and groups no bigger that 16. something along those lines. just change salvager with some other system adjust the number to something sane and either keep the groups small or ignore that entirely.
    We limited mining arrays to 1500 salvage modules total on LCB and mining was an incredible pain in the ass for everyone. If mining drones worked properly I wouldn't be too opposed to this. Until then, players are reliant on manual mining for most of their resources. I strongly recommend against this kind of change.
     

    MossyStone48

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    At the moment I agree. I don't think the number would be that low for salvager modules per entity. I pulled 384 out of muh bumski to toss at youse gaiz because it's 256+128 or x+2x=384 which I kinda like to scale with from there and is a multiple of 2. We all know grey cats speak in powers of 2 natively. You could add a 0 to the end and it'd still be easy math.

    Also drone mining is much easier if you reissue the Mine Sector command a few times and make sure your drones are using sluggish engines. Faster drones mine derpy+derp^nth power.
     

    MossyStone48

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    We're already trying a trial version of a Hybrid PvE/PvP + Build server.

    Recipe for disaster? I sure hope so! Wanna watch Rome burn as I play the fiddle? Try here!

    1: You will be JAILED. The sector the Admin chooses as your build sector will be a prison. You will not be able to leave.
    2: The sector will be protected.
    3: Your respawn will be set to that build sector.
    4: You will be need to join the Builder's faction.
    5: Clean up your toys! No more than three WIP entities per build sector. BP the others and get back to them later.

    After that you are free to build and share all you like. Shipyard test sectors might end up broken so I'd advise against using them while jailed.

    Apply for CM mode by PMing me. :3
     
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    Lecic

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    I would highly recommend doing regular cleanups of loose objects in build sectors. All those free floating entities in build sectors are part of what made SS so laggy at times.
     

    MossyStone48

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    Very thanks. That is very useful and constructive. Also I get to slap a new by-law on the Builder's guild. 'Fun' but necessary.
     
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    Per the results and experience with the Battle of Caris, I strongly recommend a sector size increase to 4k. Sector border crossing resulted in numerous problems with combat.

    Zyrr
    FlyingDebris
    Azereiah
    Bogdan
    Jotonex
    and many others will vouch for this. It also caused trouble with drone fleets bunching up due to sector crossing.
     

    Az14el

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    Can certainly agree with this
     

    Lecic

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    Could we see some regular server restarts as well? The stability seems to be suffering without them.
     

    MossyStone48

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    Through my own testing I can easily say this: We need a sector size increase. How big exactly? I'm still not sure. I'm seeing what happens between the 4 and 8 km sectors. The sweet spot might be somewhere in the 5 or 6 km range. This will require a corresponding increase in speed cap as well. Otherwise we just broke the server for half the users by making their go-to ships too slow to traverse sectors now twice the size.

    Treating NASS running SM like a production Eve server is just going to result in disappointment. Squad battles using ships roughly 60x60x30, with a single capship keeping its distance from any other capship or station, is within the capacity of the server. But only just. Adjusting sector sizes to suit this style over capship slug fests is the most sustainable option. Otherwise we end up with huge sectors and huge lag and no one willing to put up with either.

    Remember, NASS is not meant to be a fleet action PvP server. The universe is shared between PvE PvP and now Build users. Squad skirmishes of smaller ships, and I mean tiny by comparison to the vessels last used, are more in tune with NASS' hardware capabilities. Only a dedicated Battle server should be used for PvP fleet actions. Considering the expense involved it is unlikely NASS will get a dedicated Battle server.

    Server restarts are a big maybe. They don't appear to have an effect server side worth disrupting everyone. It may well be just your client. There's a chance it is bogged down and desyncing you. That WOULD show up as being server side lag. If multiple folks are experiencing it but not ALL then you're all likely having sync issues. This can happen when positional data a screwy client generates for itself clashes with packets that the server sanity checked. The only real fix is all affected clients relog.
     

    Lecic

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    This will require a corresponding increase in speed cap as well. Otherwise we just broke the server for half the users by making their go-to ships too slow to traverse sectors now twice the size.
    Since most people use JDs to get around, I think a minor speed cap boost (10-25m/s) would work best, since higher speeds unbalance combat by giving higher projectile speeds.

    Server restarts are a big maybe. They don't appear to have an effect server side worth disrupting everyone. It may well be just your client. There's a chance it is bogged down and desyncing you. That WOULD show up as being server side lag. If multiple folks are experiencing it but not ALL then you're all likely having sync issues. This can happen when positional data a screwy client generates for itself clashes with packets that the server sanity checked. The only real fix is all affected clients relog.
    Considering how everyone has it and it persists after relogs, it is on the fault of the server. Doesn't Java get less and less stable the longer a program runs? A 5 minute downtime twice a day for restarts would barely disrupt anyone, anyway.
     

    MossyStone48

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    Jump drives only get you sector to sector. Within the sector you're at the merci of your engines.

    Badly written java, I agree.
    However, SM has proven it can remain stable for a very long time without the need for scripted restarts.

    That said; Once Shadow Script gets an instability/lag routine it can restart the server without user (me) intervention by first warning the players then gently bringing the server down. After that it relaunches the server and just waits for the server to come back online. No one I've ever known has shrugged off having their connection dropped thought. For any reason. Because it is jarring when your thought process is hijacked. Are you next to a pirate base or deep into a build? What's this? The server suddenly bwoops everyone out and then you have to log back in. Hoping that your last edits are still there or that your ship wasn't dusted by pirate turrets.