North American Sandbox Servers - NASS Main (Artificial Vanilla Config)

[DrTarDIS]

OK we're actually talking NUMBERS now.
There's gotta be a good balance somewhere. Between server max velocity, jumpdrive distance and sector size there's gotta be a sweet spot after which you see diminishing returns.

ok on sectors and kombatt:
-sector boundary crossing causes issues if sector-rotation is turned on: it's not really a rounding issue so much as a vector-transform issue. galaxy-north is actually sector-east (AFAICT), this makes the transformations on missiles, beams, cannons, and entities get bent all outta shape on crossing. When the sectors rotate around center since ship-X is sector-Z is galaxy X (AFAICT) this REALLY gets nuts as things move away from 90 degrees.
-Larger sectors and pirates being billions of miles away: Weapons have their range as a coefficient of sector size. This is in block config. If you make sectors 10 KM, but want the RANGE to be the same as 2km sectors, you divide all the range numbers by 5(cannons become 0.1 instead of 0.5, etc). This "keeps fights close" and discourages sector-crossing, a kluge for the transform issues.
-AI staying waaaay to far away, missiles are OP death from outside your HUD marker range, etc: See changing block config listed above, since AI stay at their longest range weapon.

this doesn't really address the "long travel time without jump" issue, but I'mma quote a mentor here:

 

[Lecic]

If crossing sector boundaries causes issues then two ships in a PvP situation with competent pilots would only cross a handful in the course of their fight. Unless the ships are massive. In which case you are in small sectors and clipping in and out of bounds all the time. But also if you are crossing more boundaries in a short time you are running and already lost. A player avoiding a fight would likely run or jump away as well and most attackers are smart enough to let small fries get away and concentrate on bigger fish. So PvP improvements partially fizzle unless we're talking fleet or large vessel combat. In which case one MASSIVE sector is all you need. That's what Battle Mode is for. So the PvP argument melts a bit farther. NASS does not host a Battle Mode server at this time and I don't think it's likely to happen soon.

I have to disagree. Most combat I've been in covers a huge amount of ground as one ship tries to follow another that's backing up or moving to the side.

 

[Madman198237]

6km sectors make travel tedious....and my personal server runs slightly increased max speed. I think it's 1.5 times default or something. But it does prevent random sector warping from being a noticeable and annoying trend. Which is worse than slight tedium in travel. However, the biggest problem is probably the AI. Who like to hang out a 6+ kilometers with their Isanth M-b's and just wreck things.

A real solution would be to restrict the speed of vessels engaged in combat---then you could have normal travel speeds be whatever you like, but still be capable of slowing ships down while in combat. Which means that any vessel dedicating power/crew to firing/using shields/wondering if they're going to die is going to lose some power/crew off of the thrusters and slow down. Or, at least, that's my bull crap "reasonable" explanation for an interesting mechanic.

That or just force everyone to always and forever use stop beams on every ship they attack, to slow them down. Although why you'd bother making such an expensive and potentially hard-to-enforce rule for any benefit is beyond me...

 

[MossyStone48]

The number hunting for the sweet spot is going to be important with regards to travel time, AI accuracy, and weapon effective range.

I could not agree more. With bug fixes there may need to be a retinker from time to time but I can see this benefiting servers beyond NASS. Possibly affecting the entire SM population's online experience. That is a goal worth chasing.

-sector boundary crossing causes issues if sector-rotation is turned on: it's not really a rounding issue so much as a vector-transform issue. galaxy-north is actually sector-east (AFAICT), this makes the transformations on missiles, beams, cannons, and entities get bent all outta shape on crossing. When the sectors rotate around center since ship-X is sector-Z is galaxy X (AFAICT) this REALLY gets nuts as things move away from 90 degrees.

We could simply disable rotation. I did this on my private serve and it made a huge difference right away.

-Larger sectors and pirates being billions of miles away: Weapons have their range as a coefficient of sector size. This is in block config. If you make sectors 10 KM, but want the RANGE to be the same as 2km sectors, you divide all the range numbers by 5(cannons become 0.1 instead of 0.5, etc). This "keeps fights close" and discourages sector-crossing, a kluge for the transform issues.

Aye. I had thought of server speed and jump efficiency but I'd never stopped to think some answers might lie in block config or elsewhere. The todo list if sector sizes are changed is getting lengthier but I'm willing to do w/e needed for a majority benefit to our players.

That or just force everyone to always and forever use stop beams on every ship they attack, to slow them down. Although why you'd bother making such an expensive and potentially hard-to-enforce rule for any benefit is beyond me...

Yeah I wouldn't do this but if I'm tossing around in block config could I add a minor stopping ability to all weapons modules? This actually makes sense from an immersion angle. Even beams would affect the kinetic energy behind a ship in motion. We're considering laser arrays to launch tinfoil sails to like alpha canis or summat.

 

[Madman198237]

Yes but the difference is that those lasers are not firing at an armored hull, they're firing at a lightweight material built to absorb kinetic energy from the lasers.... and the lasers they'll use aren't meant to burn said armor hull into a semi-molten soup of rapidly cooling destruction. Just so you know.

 

[MossyStone48]

Right the idea that all weapons have a stop ability would still possibly be an interesting experiment. And I was using immersion specifically not to confuse it with realism. The laser array is, at this point, fantasy. It's not even a proper theory right now it's merely hypothetical; Granted tho it is based on several working theories.

So stop ability on weapons modules across the board. How bad of an idea is this really?

 

[Madman198237]

WarSong, we (The SM community) need some sort of freak testing arena of a server, where the config is whatever the crap people want that day, and you can test everything out for other servers. That way, insane ideas could be floated around and just overall enjoyed.
Or hated. Like the idea that the stop effect just became somewhat redundant.

Anyway, I was thinking that any ship that would be receiving a reduced shield rate should have reduced overall thrust and a lower universal speed limit. Also, any ship firing weapons should have the same effect applied. This would, as mentioned, slow combat, while allowing for reasonable travel times. That said, it probably needs either a sneaky workaround (Stop option in the config) or a dev-side change.

 

[MossyStone48]

It would need a sneaky admin trick to make it work. Luckily we have console and we have shadow to intercept and send commands direct to the console.

A whack server.. A place where RNGesus is lord and die'd for our naturals and critical fails. An interesting concept but I'm not gonna be able to run it. I'm strapped for free time as is. The last movie the wife and I saw was Deadpool. Nah we need someone already nutty enough to run that train wreck (hopefully far far away from NASS). It need to have a badmin too. We're talking MSmk2. Because a place that's going to go all WILD WEST to that extreme is going to attract shiplords and cooks. In the near future: Forum topics full of flame and salt. Have fun SMD Mods. I have three perfect nominees for the admin job and they all to share which will make it all the more glorious. Flames visible from SPAAAACE. We just need the one responsible admin that actually pulls the logs and gets the community the data results.

As it is now there's so many gaps in our knowledge. A lot of hypotheses but incomplete data. I'm considering slapping together a google doc and some pre-modified SM config files that someone can literally just drop into their install and test. When all's said the proof will be in the data-pudding. Because I'm hungry and I like pudding.

Anyone have suggestions on what the pre-modded config files should be (server.cfg blockconfig.xtml so on..) and a idea of possibly useful changes? You know what to change and to what degree?

 

[Madman198237]

That would be a true mess.
But I'd still show up just to watch the config shenanigans and utter hilariousness of random config changes based on some random noob's whims.

Neat idea for experiment. If we could just set up a server for testing (This being serious now) config changes and the effects of various things (Along with a player base willing to show up to test) then we could conceivably produce convincing results to affect the devs' choices....and aid admins on servers.

 

[Comr4de]

Any update on that upgrade? My understanding is "soon" but I know that's a bit of an infamous term on here.

 

[MossyStone48]

It is. we have to wait "business days" and no telling how many of those they'll take. Sry no tighter time scale to offer.

 

[MossyStone48]

APOLOGIES FOR THE DBLPOST

I needed to be sure everyone watching or participating in this conversation knew that NASS, regrettably, will be going down.
For a few hours.
While we relocate the universe to our boss NEW SERVER :3

In other news, there is no other news. Starting at 12am CST on Wed the 15th 2016 NASS will be busy getting moved to better hardware.

Been almost done since like 12:15 it's 2:35 now and I'm just tweaking stuff to make sure everything runs super smooth. And it's now 3:10 and it's def ready. any lag you get from the point out is likely your ISP fault. Or someone stealing your wifi to torrent My Little Pony.

 

[Comr4de]

Server is running solid now, thanks!

 

[MossyStone48]

It's all Doomsider brah. Give him a personal luv note with all the steamy creme. He likes that sh*t. X3

 

[yuukakazami]

wait the servers up why cant i see it

 

[MossyStone48]

i see it fine. right there in the list: NASSzone.

 

[yuukakazami]

odd I wonder why I cant see it

 

[MossyStone48]

well type www.nasszone.com and 4242 into your client there towards the bottom of the server list and click save. tada. oh and right click and add to favs :3 highlights it on the server list for ya.

well that's what i did. makes it like 20x easier to log in

 

[yuukakazami]

so odd i still dont even see the server, even when i type it in directly i just time out

edit: it also seems i cant go on to nasszone.com but i can get onto the forums odd

edit: I FOUND THE PROBLEM, though i still dont know why i cant see the server anymore on the list i found a way to connect thank for the help Song

 

[MossyStone48]

It's what I do.

OK I'm compiling a list of sector/speed ratios used on various servers and finding nothing really consistent. So we're gonna scale this!
For every 50% (1/2) we scale up the sector size we also scale the speed limit 12.5% (1/4).

NASS' current setting:
---
Sector Size = 2000
Max velocity = 75

TEST1
---
Sector Size = 3000
Max velocity = 85 (rounding up and to the nearest factor of 5)

TEST2
---
Sector Size = 4500
Max velocity = 95 (rounded down blahblahblah)

TEST3 (I have a good feeling about this one)
---
Sector Size = 6750
Max velocity = 110 (rounding way up but rationally. tho the result was irrational (math joke))

TEST4
---
Sector Size = 10125 (or 10000)
Max velocity = 125 (rounded up)

TEST5
---
Sector Size = 15190 (rounded up, could use 15000 instead)
Max velocity = 185 (rounded up)

Anyone who tests these in single player try a fight with 5 hostile isanth zeros near a station. Use a similar ship yourself. Cross boundaries is you can. Run and gun. Even Rambo knew when to run. Give it a solid 10min and then bug out. Record it if you can. Add on some jumpdrive and conventional drive + overdrive travel. Plus w/e else you can come up with to test those sector size / velocity ratios.

Input on the tests themselves and the procedure for testing is welcome may result in this post being amended.

Also the Shadow Script bank is kinda down. Doomer is working on it. He went into the Chamber of Earthly Delights muttering about SQL databases. I dunno what he's doing in there but there's a lot of shouting, smoke and I think I heard a lady say something about inadequate pressure? He'll tighten it down and get it sorted. I'm sure of it. Bank returns after arcane SQL magiks are done.