Read by Schine Minor tweak to a certain combo.

[CyberTao]

Yo.
Just throwing out a small quick idea; nerf the range on the Cannon/Cannon weapon combo. Why? Because C/C basically renders basic Cannons invalid in any size save for very small scale in terms of block destruction. Reducing the range slightly might have to make Basic Cannons semi-relevant again.

It may or may not also help buff PD. It's my understanding that AI doesnt shoot at enemies outside of their weapon ranges, they might but I think they at least hold fire. I know one of the tactics to bypass PD is to fire dumbfires parallel to draw their aim (since they are in range), and due to the distance they cant hit them. Nerfing the range of C/C (the most common form of PD) might buff PD overall. Assuming turrets dont try and track things outside their weapon range when they have valid in-range targets. If they don't, ignore me.

 

[HolyCookie]

It took me some time to understand what yea were going for with the nerf but actually buff thing but if I understand you correctly, the PD keeps tracking 1 missile and when parallel to their aim, they are distracted for a good amount of time and by nerfing the range, the time is shorter? Sounds like a simple solution to the disliking of normal cannons.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

I see the idea behind this but I will it really help? Making the range shorter for cannon cannon might just force ships to fly closer to each other and a lot of fights already happen at punching distance. It may help point defense not track missiles outside of their new shorter range but they will also let tracking missiles get much closer before they target them, making you more likely to get hit by those missiles. I think smarter AI is the solution for AMS issues but I would really like to see more reasons to choose one weapon combination over another. Right now I use cannon cannon primary and cannon beam as a secondary because of it's increased range.

 

[CyberTao]

let tracking missiles get much closer before they target them, making you more likely to get hit by those missiles.

Might I suggest a buff to PD accuracy then? Turret AI accuracy is supposed to get better as the target gets close.

But there are a few hard counters to PD currently, One of which is just overwhelming PD with sheer number of missiles. If nothing else, it corrects one of the flaws of PD, not that fixing PD was any form of a focus of this.

Making the range shorter for cannon cannon might just force ships to fly closer to each other and a lot of fights already happen at punching distance.

That's basically the same logic as "if you make weapons weaker, they will just add more to compensate". Will people just get closer? Probably. Ranges are stupid out of proportion with how people play currently anyways.

The problem I am trying to address is that basic cannons are OBJECTIVELY inferior to Cannon/Cannon. This isn't just me trying to nerf it because I got smacked on a server, this is a suggestion to try and make the base weapon more viable, and the /Cannon slave more distinct. I don't care if you are currently using C/C, I care that no one with any form of experience uses C/- outside of small ships, which are more or less just RP for us anyways.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

That's basically the same logic as "if you make weapons weaker, they will just add more to compensate". Will people just get closer? Probably. Ranges are stupid out of proportion with how people play currently anyways.

It's not really comparable, one requires a change to a ship and the other is combat tactic/ how you fly. I do agree that the current system heavily favors cannon cannons especially once you get into larger ships and cannon cannon punch is extremely devastating. I think just nerfing the range on cannon cannon is a bit of a bandaid on a bullet wound issue though. It may stop one of the symptoms but overall will not solve the issue. I'm not saying I have a better solution, I just don't personally think cutting the range on one combination is it though.

 

[jayman38]

If nothing else, shorter range would be a simple way to simulate inaccuracy spread of a rapid-fire system, without requiring additional calculations. However, maybe this is a mod thing, not for the vanilla game.

 

[Criss]

Not sure I can give tons of input here. I personally see the benefit of using a slower more hard hitting cannon, and have already installed some on in-game assets. I can't say that this suggestion has merit, as pointed out by some players here, or that it will ever be realized in the game.

 

[CyberTao]

I personally see the benefit of using a slower more hard hitting cannon, and have already installed some on in-game assets.

Criss, no offense but you build small. On ships as small as the ones used for the new TG fleet, then it's not noticable. It's only when you get up to large faction mainline ships that you notice it.

If you were given a choice between a 40k cannon that fires once a second, and a 4k cannon that fires 10 times a second, the 4k per shot will do more damage overall to an enemy ship once shields are down (and is more effective at keeping shields down).

Longer reload weapons at the large scale carry the risk of over-penetration, and suffer from a penetration curve. The solution in the olden days was more bullets (waffle) and the solution in today's game is still more bullets (rapid fire).

 

[Lecic]

Rapidfire combos will not stop being overpowered until the other kinds of cannons get a built in explosive system that scales past the 1 radius cap we currently have.